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#644114 Please Forgive Me?

Posted by Margee on 03 February 2011 - 07:02 PM

Dearest Heavenly Bible God, Father, Jehovah, Jesus, Holy Spirit, The Creator of the Universe,

I come to you with the utmost sincerity of my heart, to talk with you. I have wanted to please you all my life. I have searched for you all my life. I have wanted to be one of your chosen. I never wanted to worry on this earth about going to your hell. So I tried to be good. Yes, I screwed up quite a few times, made quite a few mistakes, but they told me it was because I was 'blood and 'flesh' and that you were like the potter, taking this ‘blob’ of sinful clay and turning me into a diamond.
I have always asked for your forgiveness and to give me another chance to prove myself to you. I hated letting you down. I always wanted to strengthen myself and be a woman of god for you – but you did not want to prove yourself for me, no matter how much I asked or prayed to you.....
Please forgive me for missing any signs that you did try to give me.

I have also, throughout the last 30 years, asked for more faith because I always felt as if I didn't have enough. I was honest with you about this. I told you everything. I confessed everything. I was told by many, that the 'mustard seed’ was good enough and that's all I had to have. But I wanted more than a seed of faith. I wanted big faith; enough to convince my mind of you, enough to stop the questions that I continued to drive you crazy with. Enough to move all the mountains in my life....

Please forgive me for this lack of faith that I had during all the past years.

I even joked with you, so many times that YOU were the one who gave me this inquisitive personality. You are supposed to be all powerful and therefore you could have changed me? I asked you to change me. Why didn't you? Why did you hesitate? Were you testing me all along like you did your servant, Job? I was even straightforward about that  and told you that I would not pass that kind of test. Then I asked you why you would even want to test us? Why would you – a loving, kind father, even permit this devil you allowed to fall from grace, sit by our side and watch as we suffered through many horrific things in life? We are your children. You made us. You created us. You didn’t answer.....

Please forgive me for my reservations with this issue.

Now I am learning that you might not be there at all. You have watched me at my computer. You have seen the research I’ve been doing in the past 5 years. You have seen and heard me questioning the bible since the night I was ‘saved’. I have asked you a hundred times in the last year to show yourself to me. I have screamed in agony. I have told you that are about to lose me. I have asked you if you care that I am falling away from the faith. And still you do nothing. You don’t even kill me. I was honest before you concerning this ‘doubting Thomas’ syndrome...
Can you really see what’s in my heart? If you can, and you are truly a loving entity - will you please forgive me?

You give me no clues whatsoever. The world is falling apart. We are killing each other. There are murders, rapes, poverty, and slavery. There are people fighting over whose land is whose and bombings everywhere. Do you see this? There is torture, starvation, cancer, drowning, dismemberment, and very painful diseases. You are supposed to be ‘all knowing.’ You could give us the cure for cancer and yet you remain silent. There is an epidemic of depression and suicide and thus far - you do nothing. How could a good and powerful God who loves you stand aside, unmoved to action, while such things happen?

Please forgive me for being angry at you.

My biggest problem with you is you are supposed to be all powerful; Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. You are supposed to be all good...full of love and yet all this evil exists? They have reassured me that when I get to heaven, you will explain all these mysteries to me. Why wait? Why not explain them to me now? Why not appear at the bottom of my bed in the late of night to have a talk? Why not appear in the sky (or wherever), even one community at a time and tell us that ''you will bring all things together for good'' as you promised in your bible. So many unanswered prayers...

Please forgive me for questioning your invisibility and indistinguishable lack of presence.

You are hiding from me so effectively, that the world looks just as I would expect it to look, and be, without a God running the show. It doesn’t have any of the characteristics I would be anticipating to find, if there was a caring, intervening, superseding God. All of my attempts to confirm your existence have come up empty handed. You are hiding so successfully. I have to admit that in order to believe like I did for years, I must do it by ignoring the contrary evidence. I must resolve to this concept called ‘faith’. You are hiding so stubbornly, I must conclude, among other things, that you do not want or care if I believe anymore. If you wanted me to believe, you think would show me evidence in a thousand obvious ways, because my heart has yearned for the proof....

Please forgive me for giving up the search.

One last quick discussion. Why didn’t you make us the way you wanted us to be in the first place? It could have been so simple – you are the God of the universe! Why tempt us in the garden? Why make hell? Why scare people? Why would you do this to us? I have been taught that all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour will go to heaven, but the amount of reward in heaven will be directly related to how closely each one followed God's will in his life. I really tried to do this. Likewise, all those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell, be tortured forever and will be punished to the degree of how much evil they committed in their life.

Please for me for thinking you are cruel.

Why did you need to resort to human sacrifices to ‘satisfy’ the sin disease - which you created and tempted us with in the first place? Why be so cruel? Obviously, I will go to this hell you created for people who reject. It’s not that I want to reject you – I just don’t trust you anymore. Trust is reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, of a person or thing; confidence. It is the confident expectation of hope that someone really cares for your well-being. It gives you confidence in the certainty of the future. It is a loving person on whom one relies. It is the condition of one, to whom something has been entrusted with, like custody or care. It is a commitment of love, and that love would not hurt you.....

Please forgive me for not trusting you anymore.

I loved you for a long time and yet, you scare me with hell? And then you tell me that you are a loving God. Would you be affectionate and forgiving enough to take my hand and walk in hell with me?

I really wanted to believe in your existence, but you have gone to extraordinary lengths to make that difficult for me. The world looks just like there is no Bible God to me and I am heartbroken. It saddens me from the bottom of my heart to admit that I do not believe that the Holy Christian Bible is the ‘Word of God’ anymore. It grieves me very much to say goodbye to the God of the bible. It is your ‘Holy Scriptures’ taken literally from all over the world has made the planet into the mess it’s in today.....

Please forgive me for saying this.

One last prayer of forgiveness:

I pray that you will understand all my questions and forgive me for not believing the ‘Holy Bible’ that I was brought up to believe in. I am asking for your forgiveness for my doubting. I am asking for forgiveness for not really believing in you – but please, if you do exist and I have missed it – before I end this letter – would you always try to remember the heart that searched long and hard for you?

I will forgive you – if you will forgive me.

Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart – Your Child, Margee

 

Please-Forgive-Me-Flowers-Vic-Hang_in_Th




#710796 Here's To You, Ex-christians....

Posted by 2Honest on 16 December 2011 - 10:15 AM

I haven't been on this road long, but it's been long enough to make some observations. This is coming partly from my own experience, but mainly from the experience of others here on Ex-C.

I've just been thinking about how much non-believers must lay down our own sense of authenticity, honesty, and even integrity - for the sake of sparing people we love. We all know that if we really got into it with a Christian friend or family member, we could pretty easily tumble their house of cards. But we don't. We love them too much. We know that it is a personal journey each one of us must find on our own, and it is not to be forced on anyone.

But our believing loved-ones don't know this. They don't know how many times we bite our tongues. They don't know how much of ourselves we must hide from them. They don't know how lonely we are. They don't know the struggles we have gone through and the damage that has been done to us by religion. And they don't know how much better off we are now...they may see a change in us...but they don't know why it's there. They may think it's because of all the prayers they've been praying for us. And we must let them believe that.

On the flip side, some of us have come out to people. And we are ridiculed, judged and made to feel as though something is wrong with us. And still, we don't use our pain as motivation to try to de-convert those who abuse us.

It frustrates me that people view ex-c's so harshly. They have no idea the struggles we face and the lack of support we have.They have no idea what amazing, loving, caring, considerate people we are. They don't know that we live our lives being misunderstood.

Well I just want to say today that I appreciate every one of you on this forum. I DO see what amazing people you are and I understand the shit you have to go through. I understand the sacrifices you make for the sake of the people you love (and even the ones you don't!). And I know what it will be like for some of you as you hang out with your family and friends this Christmas, hiding this huge part of yourself. Or maybe some of you have come out to people and you will be alone this Christmas...or even worse, spending time with people who are judging and ridiculing you.

Here's to all of you...you are beautiful people and I'm glad to have found this forum. Posted Image

Much love,
2H
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#887854 I Get It

Posted by Ravenstar on 29 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

Whatever... I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

If you are saying I don't have a right to be angry at religion... you are wrong. If you believe that I don't have a right to be angry at certain religious people, you are wrong.

 

The ENTIRE point isn't about wanting to 'sin', or tithe, or whatever. It's about promises made, supposedly by an omniscient creator.. that his people would be blessed. They are not. They are no different, and in some cases much worse than others. The institutions are corrupt and greedy and divisive. The entire legacy sucks.

 

I'm not angry at christianity because I wanted to 'sin'.. you freaking idjit. I'm angry because it didn't live up to MY morality... and it was supposed to surpass my little human heart. It does not.

 

I'm not angry at christians because I'm gay, or cheap, or any of those things.. I'm angry because on the whole (not every individual) they are the most backstabbing, delusional and hateful people I have met. Their beliefs create a culture of judgmentalism and ignorance that is stunning.

 

Most of the time I'm not even angry... and after careful and thorough investigation and heartfelt, honest study I found out it is a bunch of crap... crap that has a negative effect on society. I get angry when I see the crimes perpetuated by religion, the hatred, the excuses for war and intolerance. That is a healthy anger, because it's against injustice and it motivates me to help those subject to this horridness.

 

I don't need you to hear my pain and anger.. I don't give two shits about your pity. Don't pity me - I am no victim, I finally found some peace, and understanding of the world that makes sense and I have been able to release the existential shame and guilt that comes with religion. I found freedom, and I am a better person for it. I didn't even leave the church out of anger, but out of incredulity and the insult to my intelligence. I couldn't swallow the bullshit anymore. I got angry later.

 

YOU are the one who isn't hearing... you post constantly with your preconceived notions of what atheists, agnostics, pagans buddhists, hindus and deists really feel, think, do and are. Good grief.. do you really believe we run around 'sinning' all the time? You arrogant, self-satisfied, hypocritical prick.  Read Margee's Testimonial.. if you can't HEAR the anguish and the struggle and the honesty there then I fear you are far too gone to understand anything. Your empathy switch is broken. Typical.

 

You are the one with the delusion..and your very obvious fear that maybe we actually have found some damn happiness and a life that makes sense to us... without your god.


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#809888 I'm So Angry Because...

Posted by Ravenstar on 22 September 2012 - 08:31 PM

religion is evil... it's so evil I can hardly find words to describe it's vileness...

My deconversion, if you will, seems to have gone in a spiral... in steps. For a very long time even after I rejected christianity I clung to my various conceptions of god, or whatever—fuck—I don't even know what to call it anymore.

I've studied and practiced various forms of theism.. from pantheistic witchcraft to Rosicrucianism, to Pentecostal, to... well, let's just say I've been to a lot of different branches of this faith thing, always thinking, nay believing, deep down that somehow there must be a loving force and if so, I can find it... call it god for lack of a better descriptor.

I'm a seeker... it's my nature... but what I really desired was truth.(still do) The truth is I'm an evolved and intelligent and MORAL being. I've always been this, even as a child—there isn't a time when I can remember being different... I wasn't raised in religion, and even at 6 or 7 I remember being concerned about others and CARING about the world. I was BORN THIS WAY.

I've done a lot of reading, here and elsewhere, I've watched video's, studied history, science and well... done my best to be well-informed and use the reasoning abilities I was born with, and I'm fucking pissed off.

Because I've come to the conclusion that religion is evil. It's evil and it exploits human nature and needs in the worst ways possible, It negates reason, morality and humanity.

This is not even close to the rage I am experiencing...or the thousand reasons why and how I have come to this conclusion... and expressing it is hard. Just getting over the hurdle of not being 'tolerant' and 'understanding' and 'accepting of others views' is like climbing Mount Everest... being afraid to 'offend'..etc.. blah blah blah... fuck it all because this is a truism...

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " - Edmund Burke

I think about Victor Frankl's, "The Search for Meaning" and many other books I've read that illustrate the true nobility that humans are capable of and I can see that religion negates all of that—makes it worthless, and teaches that we are less than, NO, REQUIRES that people are less than they can be. How much more despicable than, "without god you can do nothing" can anything be? It devalues people, it devalues people and makes it possible for atrocity. Religion requires that we see ourselves and especially others as not worthy... of anything, much less compassion or kindness. If our own creator can't accept us as we are...

And christians are upset to think we are related to chimpanzee's, because they believe it devalues them? Their own book devalues them—the entire concept makes us less worthy than any animal.. animals are innocent! But we are the scum of the earth, and by making us believe that we become so incredibly gullible that we will do ANYTHING to relieve that sense of vulnerability and worthlessness, whether that's believing lies, or killing others... anything. It's an untenable psychic state. Throw in a good dose of fear (but make us believe we deserve it) and that's it folks... wrap it up.. you just created a battered woman out the majority of the human race.

FUCK THAT!

and Religion REQUIRES violence. Seriously... what is more abhorrent than blood sacrifice of the blameless? It requires that we accept this concept as fucking holy? What the hell is holy about being joyful that innocent blood is shed to keep you from taking personal responsibility? The whole concept is... makes me nauseous.

I can see now why the religious are so damn quick to be violent—it's ingrained in their very matrix of how they see reality. How can they be peaceful when their 'creator' in who's image they are, (think about it) is such a violent, bloodthirsty monster? And i don't give two flying fucks if it's fundamentalism or moderate belief because in the end it's the same damn thing... if you really don't believe the world and humanity is intrinsically worthy, or stand against religious batshit crazyness then you ENABLE the worst of you and you are culpable.

Religion, by it's very nature, opens the way for people to exploit and abuse others. Interpretation, vague texts, emotional understanding, giving the morally immature a parent figure so they don't have to grow up, feeding people's need for acceptance and society and approval, setting up systems where the immoral can whitewash their crap with 'righteousness'. Taking advantage of the simple human need to be loved, who does that? I'm a parent... of a rebellious teenager I might add... do I ever look at her, even in her worst moments (and boy oh boy, she can dish it out sometimes) and wish her any harm... EVER? The opposite is true... I want nothing for her EXCEPT the very highest happiness, wonderful life and self-fulfillment possible. If she rejects my 'way' would I disown her? never.

God is love? Not from where I stand. And the evidence is all around... in spades.

AND... If there is a different god, a loving god, why would it hide from me? I call bollocks. Fuck faith and the horse it rode in on. Absurdities.

Religion makes people unbelievably stupid, mentally unbalanced, vengeful, arrogant and morally bankrupt. Yet hides behind this 'light and love' clothing. It's the very definition of passive-aggressiveness, malignant narcissism, and delusional projection.

This particular wave of my enlightenment was precipitated by the muslim violence over that stupid ass movie (trailer actually) that was made by another group of religious nutjobs who think they have the truth... I'm sick of it. It's UNACCEPTABLE.

Religion is a plague on mankind. A mental and moral social disease.. I'm thoroughly convinced now.

I am not an atheist anymore... I am firmly an anti-theist. I believe that religion should be fought, torn down, whatever... with all the strength we have.

sorry i went all over the place... it's hard to organize it all... because it's a whole lot of everything and it affects every single person on this planet. There is no longer anything that can convince me there is anything good about it.
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#781790 Higgs Boson: Found

Posted by mwc on 02 July 2012 - 04:09 PM

One ecstatic scientist was heard to say "We knew we had the right particle because, despite its very tiny size, it was extremely angry, and it kept demanding we utterly destroy the Amalekites."

mwc
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#717615 I Came Out Today

Posted by Brought None on 08 January 2012 - 12:17 AM

FINALLY!

Today I came out as gay to my parents! :D

Damn I feel like a ton of bricks is off my back now!

Parent's are fully supportive. We talked for a good few hours. Mom was asking me a ton of questions.

Feel so strange right now. Having opened up like this to them.

Will post more tomorrow. Right now I'm so drained. Need sleep!
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#808851 91 Year Old........ Deconverting !

Posted by Margee on 18 September 2012 - 06:08 PM

So, this afternoon, my dear, little, fragile 91 year old MIL comes out of her bedroom from her afternoon snooze and screams, 'Margee, I'd like to talk to you about something'. Well this sounded very serious, so I said... 'give me a few minutes and I'll make us both a cup of tea'. I stood in the kitchen wondering what this dear lady sounded so stressed about.

I went in the den we set up for her and sat opposite to her and said, ''What's on your mind, my dear?'
She looked me straight in the eye and said, ''Do you believe in god?'' Posted Image

Oh. My. Gawd...... was this a trick question, I thought to myself?? Posted Image Am I supposed to be a good 'god fearing' DIL or not???? What do I say????

I turned it around on her and asked her, 'why do you want to know'? Well, she said, 'I have some questions and I have no one to talk to about them'. I said, 'tell me more'.........

Long story short....91 years of watching how the world is. 91 years of hard work. Tons of unanswered prayers and too many 'stupid' things in the bible!! She felt like her prayers 'hit the ceiling' for most of her life!! She told me that she has seen a lot of horror in this world over her lifetime! That's what she said!! She has kept that in all these years!!

I was in her room for an hour, told her all about me. She was sooooo happy to know she wasn't the only one who ever questioned god. I told her all about Charles Templeton's book and how it helped me so much. She wanted to see the book. She knew about him very well. So I went downstairs and got it for her. We both agreed together that we felt that death would be one big adventure. That's how we ended the conversation......So now, she is sitting in her room reading my book....'Farewell To God''......Posted Image

She told me today this is the first time she has ever opened her mouth about her christians beliefs before in all her years. She told me she wished she could live her life all over again.

I now have a 91 year old 'deconvert' living in the same house as me.Posted Image

I asked my husbands permission to make this post tonight about his mom and he laughed and said, 'go ahead...your gang will get a big charge out of it'.

Cute story?


#728310 A Letter To The Young People On Ex-C

Posted by Margee on 12 February 2012 - 12:25 PM

It is my intention to encourage you on your journey......You wonderful young 'freethinkers' on EX-c! A few of my thoughts this morning.

You are the new generation of 'rebels' who, through a lot of hard work and persecution, will have the ability to alter the world you live in. It's not going to be easy. You cannot change people and their old ways quickly - you can only influence them.... probably slowly. But please, march ahead anyway and do not be afraid to be different.

You young ones have dug your head out of the sand much earlier than some of us older people and have truly opened your eyes to the fact that the world has been hypnotized and brainwashed throughout the generations. There are multitudes of people that will require you to 'conform' like the majority and believe in a christian god that doesn't give evidence of 'himself' in a world of suffering.

Because you will be no longer bowing to the world, you will be bullied, harassed and ostracized for being different. You will be insulted and belittled for being a freethinker. You're journey will be hard in many ways, as you buck some of the the nonsense that has been handed down since the beginning of time. In a way, you will be an 'outcast', much like the jew, the homosexual, and the black slave has been. The reason for all the 'bondage' of these dear people throughout history... is religion. You already know that. So you must fight back in a strong, gentle way.

You may not be respected by your friends, co-workers or family members, but you must stay strong in your convictions. You are the new agnostics and atheists, a new brave, breed of people, rising up to stop the madness on this earth. You will be the reason the world will eventually change over the next few generations. Your own children and grandchildren will rejoice because of your efforts. They will thank you for making life a little easier for them!

You must stay strong and trust your instincts that there is no talking snakes, no talking donkeys, no virgin births, no walking on water, no little devil running around in the atmosphere to destroy you and no punishing god that sets you up to fail because of the foolish doctrine and myth of 'sin' and 'fallen' man due to a woman who ate off a tree. To continue to believe this would be the same as believing in flying dragons! When in doubt, study the first couple chapters of Genesis and ask yourself if any of it makes sense to you. This will help to keep you strong on your journey.

You must continue to search for the new information that the scientist presents and aslo, take the time to learn how all these myths started. Fill your head with all the knowledge that you can jam into it . Knowledge is your key to life-long freedom. You must be willing and brave enough to tell the older folk - 'You are wrong.' You don't need to come across as a 'rebeller' to be a free thinker.You must try to do this hard job with as much love as you can 'muster up' and stay calm and cool, as you present your 'case'.

Many times, you will have to face rejection. Be prepared for this. If you fight with aggression - you will be like the rest of the world. If you are going to think different and make a difference in the world - then you must act different. Be kind and loving, but remain strong. Continue to influence - show the world how happy you are, having a mind of your own without all the indoctrination from the ancient bibles in the world..

You must always realize that the world is brainwashed. They are in a trance and have been deluded and lied to for centuries. Many do not want to give up their beliefs. They want to believe what their ancestors told them. The 'non-thinkers' of this world are like robots....they do what the world tells them to do. You have knowledge that they don't. Most of them are not bad people. Keep this thought close to your heart - it will help you to feel compassion for your world of friends, family and co-workers.

You must realize that it's O.K to be different. Do not cover this up with drugs and alcohol if possible. You must be stronger than the drugs or alcohol. They are a 'cover up' to temporarily make you feel OK about yourself. Go ahead and party - but be careful not to get hooked. Let your hair down every now and again. Have a lot of fun. Remember, when you truly accept and love yourself for who you are - you will not need a false 'high' everyday. Have a party everyday (without booze or drugs) ....just to celebrate yourself!!

Being different means not only thinking in a 'non-conformist' way, but also taking a stand at what the world considers educated, ugly, pretty, smart, etc. You must buck this system also - the 'unfalse' world of 'beauty' - the old book of rules that says you must weigh this or wear that, to be popular. A lot of depression stems from this silly system and has ruined so many young lives. Show the world that you are smarter than following this degrading structure - teach the beautiful people that they can have what you got... true confidence. So always let your 'beauty' come from within.

Again I plead, do not count on your looks or your body to give you the true self esteem you need to feel good about yourself. If you are not as pretty, handsome, skinny, etc., as the magazines or the other people in the world - do not let this throw you. Some of the most beautiful people lack the true self esteem it takes to feel confident because they are not true to themselves. You are! Many of these dear 'beauties' count on their appearance to make it through life and they are not always happy and confident.

Let your beauty always come from a confident frame of mind! This will make you shine prettier and more handsome than any of the so called movie stars on earth or stars in the sky!!

If you are still living under the roof of your believing parents, you may need to be very patient. No one can make you believe..... you already know in your young mind that you don't believe what they do. Your parents can make you do things, such as attending church, going to bible study, or saying prayers, but that’s stuff you might have to do for a while on the outside. Inside your mind, you’re free to think your own thoughts and believe what makes sense to you. This is when you may have to practice the art of 'silence' and patience.

If you are depressed because you can't be who you really are while living under someone's roof, know in your heart that it won't be like this for very long. Silence can be golden at times. Learn to make 'silence' a friend for you. Right now, the part of your life that you can control is inside your mind! Try to remember, that your parents love you and think they are doing what is right for you.

So, go forth, strong youth...... and create the new world of liberty and freedom!

Best of love and good wishes to you as you confidently go on this journey!

Love and hugs from an old member on EX-c!!




#799981 How Studying The Bible And Being A Very Good Girl Led Me Away From Chritianity

Posted by Anat on 19 August 2012 - 10:41 AM

Hi, all. This is my first time posting my very own topic, and I apologize if this sort of story is old hat. Thanks for reading my cathartic word jumble! :)

I grew up in a very conservative Baptist church in the south. Went to youth group and all the Christian summer camps, memorized all the verses and did all the mission trips. Won lots of youth group awards. I mean, I was an obsessive student at school, why wouldn't I be one at church too? I did my devotionals almost every day, prayed, and even tried to model my high school dating relationships on "Biblical principles."

I went away to a Christian-based college at 18 where everyone had to take Old and New Testament survey classes. This is where everything started to fall apart. My professors, though Christians, had studied Greek and Hebrew and textual criticism and wanted us to look at the Bible academically. I was so blown away by the two creation stories, the contradictory histories in Joshua and Judges and between the Gospels, and all the other problematic aspects of the Bible that I decided to become a Religion major just so I could better understand them. I mellowed out in my theology, started reading the Bible as a source of social justice and felt I was "called" to get people to stop being such fundamentalist jerks. I learned Hebrew and Greek, and took theology and philosophy classes. I worked as a youth leader for 2 summers at a Baptist church (despite my female-ness and nose ring!) and tried to teach the kids to think critically about the text and to just be really good to people. During all this time my church attendance was pretty sporadic. I didn't really feel the need for any church fellowship when I was taking so many religion classes with awesome people.

After college I got into the graduate religion department at a prestigious American university to study the Hebrew bible. The divinity school there was multi-religion and extremely ecumenical. I met and became friends with Jews, Humanists, Muslims, and a myriad of adherents to various Christian denominations. I decided to become Episcopalian because they seemed the most social justice oriented and allowed gay people and women to be priests. I thought this was my happy medium. But as I delved deeper into the textual study of the Hebrew Bible, I realized that the text was more than just a little problematic. I mean, there are MULTIPLE Hebrew words whose meanings we can only guess at! I took a class studying and translating the Dead Sea Scrolls and realized, "Damn, we really don't know what a lot of this actually says." I took classes doing feminist and womanist and LGBT and Liberation interpretations of the text, but still the Bible taunted me with its dickishness. It often took so much work to make the Bible not say terrible things. But I couldn't stand the thought of it saying terrible things!

Over time, I found myself both more and more troubled by the concept of God and at the same time just not caring any more. It was truly exhausting to try to stick up for God/Jesus when the things they did seemed pretty indefensible. Eventually I stopped going to church at all and told myself that I just was taking a break, and that I would consider myself "not religious" for a bit. Then two thoughts came to my mind. 1) How can I believe in a God who is less kind and just than humans are? and 2) If I'm having to work this hard to defend the concept of God and Christianity and to suspend this belief in my mind, maybe this belief isn't worth having. Despite thinking these things I still did not consider myself an atheist or an agnostic, just really not religious.

A few weeks ago I visited my parents in the south. I went with them to church and it was one of the most depressing things I experienced in a long time. All these truly kind people believing truly stupid and cruel things. When I got back from the trip I realized that I was more than "not religious," I was an agnostic/atheist (still researching to find where I actually fit). And now I am more pissed than ever. HOW ON EARTH can these "pastors" and "priests" who actually studied the text stand there and lie to their congregations every week? I give the congregations more of a pass, but if you have studied the actual language of the Bible and still believe it to be infallible, you are an idiot and a liar. I can't deal with it. And now I sit and simmer as my Facebook is constantly populated with idiotic Christian sayings and verses and ideals.

I am so angry. But I don't want to be. So here I am to blow off steam and read other Ex-Christians' experiences and to rebuild my philosophy for living.

If you've made it to the end, you are a trooper. So thanks. :)
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#811829 Just Lost My $Hit On Facebook!

Posted by Wings on 30 September 2012 - 11:24 PM

For those of you who know of me and my deconversion/church exit, you know the stories of my crazy church and subsequent "shunning." It's not an official doctrine by any means, but I'm definitely on the outside, deliberately excluded from family and was on the end of some pretty vitriolic and nasty messages.

In my tradition, we go to church twice on sundays and do not do anything else... the major sin is to spend money. I'm not sure why, but we're not allowed to work professionally (unless your role is deemed "urgent services" like doctors, nurses, ems, etc.) And absolutely you don't go shopping, eat out or spend money on entertainment. Well, I quit church in March; I obviously don't subscribe to any of that any more.

Today, I went to a baseball game with some friends (Jays vs. Yankees; Jays lost... boo, I'm Canadian). I posted a picture on facebook titled "sunday funday"... now, don't get me wrong. Part of me knew it would bother some people I know from "then".. .part of me just wanted to stop hiding. I'm tired of having to walk on eggshells to not offend people because they're upset that I'm different.

I really didn't think anyone would say anything... but my aunt commented:
"Nope, Sunday a day of rest and comunion with the church and God"

I initially responded with something along the lines of "well, I respect that..." but then a friend made a personal comment to me about how weird my aunt's comment was.

I suddenly got really angry because it's true... I put up with a lot of this bullying bullshit from my family and it's rude to me and it's rude to my 100s of non-or-other-religious friends.

I responded:
"You know what? This might not be the place to put this, but I have gotten A LOT of not-so-nice comments, emails, letters/cards and non-verbal messages from people because they are offended and/or displeased that I don't go to church. NEVER EVER have I told ANYONE that they should not go to church, NEVER EVER have I commented on any of my friends' fb or elsewhere (friends, I might note, who are from all walks of faith and life) telling them that they should lead their lives a different way (especially without backing it up with care and concern) and NEVER EVER EVER would I dream of putting on one of their religious/church-related pictures that they should be living their lives differently. I find it rude and insulting (to both my non or different-than-you religious friends and myself), judgmental and unnecessary and I'm really tired of it. If my life offends you, delete me. If you want to debate with me, debate with me. If you want to ask me why I've made the choices I've made, ask me. Until then, I can say that I live my life with honesty, integrity and truth. I make MANY mistakes, which I try to learn from, and I'm far from perfect. But I love and ask to be loved. I will accept you, and ask to be accepted. If that's too much for you, I understand. Know that I will ALWAYS love and accept you..."


I know it was a bit overkill in response to her message... but I also know my tradition and I read the pettiness in her message. Also, it's one piled onto many others... and kind of my breaking point.

I'm pretty anxious cause this is my first "public" note on the topic and I dealt with a lot of nastiness from people already. I'm going to be pretty anxious when checking fb over the next few days... but on the other hand, I'm tired of "hiding."

Anyway, just wanted to vent. Thanks!
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#759564 Top 10 Reasons To Be Against Gay Marriage

Posted by 2Honest on 11 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

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#757767 So, I Just Walked Out Of Church.......

Posted by mcdaddy on 06 May 2012 - 09:29 AM

As some of you know, i still go to church with my wife since she is still a believer. Well just a few minutes ago I walked out do to the absolute repugnance and disgust I felt. Instead of the usual sermon, they're having a missionary speak today. He had his own video they played on all the screens before he came up to speak.

It starts with showing smiling faces, kids playing, lovers kissing, etc from different middle eastern country peoples. About every 30 seconds it cuts away to show a ticker that is slowly counting upwards, but getting progressively faster. 50...100...1000...2300...etc. after showing all these beautiful people, who for all intents and purposes are just normal people going about their day to day, at the end of the clip the number stops on 6501 or something like that. And underneath it says "the number of Muslims that died and went to hell today". I almost LOST it.

I almost got up right then but I stayed, only for my wife. But I was holding her hand, and immediately dropped it, she could tell I was pissed. After this ignorant fucker gets up there and is talking for a few minutes, he starts showing pictures of actual people. "This is Muhammad. His father was a muslim, but he died and is in hell. This is his grandfather. He was a Muslim, he is in hell. And on and on. This is Fatima. She accepted Jeezus and they cut off her tongue and killed her, but now she's praising the Lard with her new tongue in heaven. Praise the lawd!!

So I turn to my wife and say, " I'm not going to listen to this judgemental bullshit". And walk the F out. I'm in my car right now wondering how long she'll sit thru the indoctrination session. I fucking HATE missionaries.
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#911148 I Feel Sorry For Women Who Live With Their Boyfriends

Posted by Ravenstar on 11 December 2013 - 12:30 PM

Why would you feel sorry? You know very little about women, not surprising...

 

Being female I have had the opportunity to speak to a lot of other women… a lot of us DO NOT WANT to get married. It's not the guy, it's us. There are many good reasons not to get married, independence, financial autonomy, etc. etc… and each women would have their own.

 

Defining our relationships in new ways is part of the way culture and society is moving… most women make their own money these days and in a lot of cases getting married is not the best move. Commitment is very possible without marriage… and I've been married, twice… and I've experienced a deeper commitment with a live-in boyfriend than I did with either of my husbands.. actually, I had an even better long term relationship with a man I never lived with.

 

I would never get married again..ever.


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#821386 And Now My Husband Is An Ex-C!

Posted by msipsy218 on 13 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

about a week after my public "coming out" my husband told me last night, he no longer believes in the xtian god!

He says he still thinks there is some kind of higher being, but he not the god of the bible

I think seeing the negative reactions of xtians plus my conversations with him a long the way (he's never been in the dark about my thoughts or feelings, even when we didn't agree, we talked) probably helped him to see xtianity for what it is.

He's been reading my posts and the replies here as well, so I think that probably helped. Anyways, I'm happy to be on this journey with him and glad we can see eye to eye on how to raise our kids. Just wanted to share the good news!
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#793260 Fuck Your Stupidity, I've Had Enough.

Posted by Kaiser01 on 01 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

This is another one of those days at church...

Today we were sitting there listening to the lesson, well i was day dreaming, but they were listening. Well they start talking about the whole Chick-Fil-A business, then they moved to Islam, then they moved to the subject of tolerance, by the time i got out of there i was ready to kick a bible across the room, stomp on it and then tell them to fuck themselves.

It started off by some ass hat ( as i said in another thread) saying he would go to chick fill A and buy a sandwich, then go stand in front of the protesters and eat it... in their face, how christian of you. This really got me pissed just because of the bigotry. That got them on the issue of homosexuality, of course they said it was a choice and what not but they moved into the subject of tolerance. To these bunch of ass hats, Christianity is the ONLY RELIGION told to be tolerant of others.

WTF? You honestly think your the only religion told to be tolerance, the morons brought up Islam and said no one tells them to be tolerant, Are you serious? we are fighting an entire war trying to enforce a kind of tolerance on Islam and you think Christianity is the one persecuted? You think your the only one being told to submit in America?

How can you be so fucking stupid to sit there and say Christianity is so persecuted when your GOD IS ON OUR FUCKING MONEY. WHEN YOUR CHURCHES POPULATE EVERY CORNER. WHEN YOUR COMMANDMENTS OF "MORALITY" PLAGUE OUR COURTROOMS. WHEN I WAKE UP EVERY FUCKING MORNING AND HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT CHRIST AND YOUR THE MINORITY? YOUR TAX FREE, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND YOUR TAX FREE, THE GOVERNMENT JUST HATES YOU RIGHT? YOUR PREACHERS ARE ON THE ADVISORY COUNCIL OF OUR PRESIDENTS. YOUR BIBLES ARE IN OUR HOTELS, YOUR RELIGION FLIES ACROSS THE AIRWAVES. YOUR GOD IS IN OUR PLEDGE THAT NON-CHRISTIANS MUST HEAR EVERYDAY. YOUR THE ONLY RELIGION IN AMERICA ABLE TO DENY COMMON HUMAN RIGHTS TO OTHERS AND GET AWAY WITH IT, FOR NO OTHER REASON OTHER THAN, IT "OFFENDS YOU."

So persecuted, so tormented, o woe is the poor Christian, o woe is you, you think your told to be tolerant? How about when I, an atheist, must hide myself because i will be harrased, or when plans for a new mosque in your city show up and you come to protest? Or when an atheist family must run away from their lives out of fear of death from their community when they exercise their free speech. They're so ignorant of the world, so stupid, they sit on some kind of high horse and act like they have some higher understanding, like they understand the world but they would not be able to find their head if it wasn't stuck up their ass. I want to say something so bad, i want to just stand up for once, I almost blew up today and i fear soon i might and i hope i do.
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#926173 Thanks Exc

Posted by truthseeker4 on 10 February 2014 - 03:07 AM

The really nice thing that I have noticed, is that all most people here are so kind without any hope of a heavenly reward. You are so supportive, and I hope that one less child ( or adult) needs to go to bed afraid of hell or worrying that they have done enough to achieve heaven. I have always thought that if there is a god, whatever needed to be written would be on our hearts and not in a book. You have always been kind people because you have followed you heart and truth. So, it is not a high god that wants bless you, it is I , a simple human errant being. I am so glad to have your insight, and glad to find you. Blessings from one human to many humans!


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#920391 The Divorce Letter

Posted by TheRedneckProfessor on 19 January 2014 - 07:10 PM

I cried myself to sleep again last night.  I had hoped that you would come to me and talk to me; I waited up for you.  But you didn’t come…

 

You have been so many things to me over the years.  You have been my provider, my hope in moments of despair, my strength in times of weakness.  You have been my dearest friend, and my deepest love.  I have always felt so grateful to you and have tried to live up to your expectations of me.  I have tried so hard to be the person you needed me to be.

 

But lately all of that has changed.  It may be me and not you; I don’t know.  You seem so distant.  You won’t even do the simplest things I ask you to do for me.  I’ve tried to talk to you about what I am going through and how it makes me feel.  But all I get from you is stony silence.  Like my words mean nothing to you.

 

I even tried talking to your family about what I am feeling, hoping that they could help me get through this.  I had hoped maybe they would talk to you for me.  But instead they only told me that they never thought I was good enough for you to begin with.  Do you have any idea how devastating it was for me to hear them say that?  Especially after all I’ve been through with you and with them, it destroyed me that they would say such a thing.

 

I can’t go on like this.  I have done all I can to make you understand what I am going through.  I wanted you to see what was wrong in our relationship so that we could work to change things and move forward.  But I seem to be the only one interested in our relationship anymore.  You seem to take no notice at all…

 

I don’t know what I will do without you, or what will become of me.  It may be hell.  But I know that my life is in pieces now and I need to pick through the pieces and figure out which ones to leave behind and which ones to use to build whatever life I have left.

 

I will not wait for you anymore…

 

I’m sorry, Jesus; it is over between us.

 

 

“Eternally Yours,”

Me


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#911415 I Got A Job!

Posted by wanderinstar on 12 December 2013 - 05:00 AM

I think I may have mentioned previously that I have not worked for the last five years due to physical and mental health issues. The damage 'the church' did to me contributed significantly to my health problems. For the last five years there have been many times I was hospitalized, I have been that ill. So to finally be able to get a casual job (as well as p/t study) is a demonstration of just how far I have come. I am so thrilled to be feeling kinda normal. The illnesses are not cured but I am stable. I have no doubt that being out of christianity for the last 18 months has helped, as has being able to chat with you guys - thanks.  Happy Dance! woohoo.gif


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#904885 If Jesus Is God

Posted by TheRedneckProfessor on 17 November 2013 - 06:37 PM

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with god, and the Word was god… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”

 

So proclaims the gospel of St. John, the Beloved.  We are, thus, invited to believe that jesus was, in fact, god.  But should we?  Does this claim of St. John’s stand up to what we “know” of god?  Does this claim even stand up to the information provided in the other gospels?  I propose we look at the divinity of jesus with just a modicum of simple logic, and I predict we will raise more questions than we answer upon the subject.

 

For example, St. Matthew provides a lineage in order to demonstrate that jesus was a direct descendent of Abraham, through the line of King David, on his father’s side.  Matthew then immediately says that Joseph wasn’t jesus’ father, but that Joseph had adopted jesus.  If jesus was the son of god, born of a virgin, why go to such great lengths to tie jesus back to such an admirable ancestry?  Was his status as the son of god not already enough?  Why not simply state that jesus was the son of god, born of a virgin, and then get on with the rest of the story?  Was this an attempt by St. Matthew to express what a good man Joseph was, because he was willing to adopt the child?  If so, then why is Joseph hardly ever mentioned again after the blessed nativity?  Moreover, if Joseph was such a good man, why was jesus overly obsessed with his “heavenly father”?  Children who grow up under good parents rarely have such father-figure issues.

 

If jesus was god, then why did he curse the fig tree?  The gospel makes it plain (Mark 11) that it was not the season for figs.  Surely an omniscient god would have realized this, especially if that same god had divinely inspired the writer of Ecclesiastes with the words, “There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens” (Ecc. 3).  Moreover, an omnipotent god should have been able to make the fig tree bear fruit out of season, if he could also turn water into wine and feed 5,000 with a few fish sandwiches.  So, why would an omniscient, omnipotent god become so enraged against an innocent tree?  Why resort to hurling curses, when he had so many other recourses?

 

If jesus was god, then why did he heal people?  I know we are supposed to accept these healings as miracles and accept the miracles, in turn, as proof of his divinity.  But surely, an omniscient god must have realized that we would eventually learn to make our own medicine, and surely that same god must have known that many of our medicines would be simple chemical compounds easily found in nature.  For practical purposes, wouldn’t jesus’ time have been better spent counseling Luke the Physician on the healing properties of the berries, herbs, roots, and flowers that grew locally, rather than casting out demons on a first-come, first-served basis?  Wouldn’t using his omnipotent knowledge of the human body and the medicinal qualities of natural extractives have given us a better foundation upon which to build modern medical practice?  And wouldn’t this have been a better demonstration of his divinity than slaughtering an entire flock of pigs because of a schizophrenic called “Legion”?  The jesus in the gospels seems to have not even known that boiling willow bark would yield a highly effective pain killer in the form of acetylsalicylic acid, commonly referred to as “aspirin”, yet we are compelled to believe he was god?

 

Here is an interesting consideration: Do suicides go to heaven?  Most of the christians I know would say absolutely not.  But doesn’t the gospel make it plain that jesus knew that if he entered Jerusalem again, the chief priests and elders would have him put to death (Matthew 16)?  Knowing that it would mean death, jesus still returned to Jerusalem.  How is that any different from young Timothy drinking a gallon of anti-freeze, knowing it will mean his death?  They both made choices that they knew would lead to their deaths.  If there is another definition for “suicide” of which I am not aware, please enlighten me.  Yet, in the face of christian doctrine, not only did jesus knowingly place himself in a situation he knew would lead to his death, we are encouraged to think that he rose again and is seated at the right hand of the father.

 

Then there are the questions regarding jesus praying.  In the garden of Gethsemane, we are told that jesus prayed this prayer: “Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me.  Never the less, not my will, but yours be done.”  Firstly, to whom is this prayer directed?  If jesus is god, then he is simply talking to himself.  Secondly, if jesus is god, then he should already know whether or not it is possible for the cup to be passed from him; he should already know that he has the power to say, “Cup, pass from me.”  Lastly, if jesus and god are one in the same, how could the will of jesus be anything but the will of god?  Why this need to submit his will to god's, if he is god?  If it is indeed possible that jesus’ will was different from the will of god (and the prayer certainly makes it sound possible), then jesus could not have been god.

 

Jesus also prayed while he was on the cross.  He prayed “Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani” (Mark 15), which we are given to understand as, “My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?”  But if jesus was god, then he had already forsaken himself; and he already knew why he had forsaken himself, because he had entered Jerusalem knowing it would mean his death.  If jesus genuinely did not know why god had forsaken him, then he could not have been god. 

 

Just before jesus gave up the ghost, the gospels tell us that he prayed one final prayer saying, “Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit.”  Again, to whom is jesus praying?  He made it plain in the gospels that he and the father were one (John 10); into whose hands is he committing his spirit?  If he is god, then he is simply committing his spirit into his own hands, just as he took his life into his own hands when he returned to Jerusalem.  And if he is god, he should know this.

 

I therefore submit to you, that not only do the gospels fail to present a convincing case for the divinity of jesus, when looked at with a skeptical eye, they also provide clear evidence that supports a contrary view.


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#871113 Holy Fucking Shit! What Do You Mean I'm Not Going To Die?

Posted by ContraBardus on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM

Just got off the phone with my Cardiologist.

 

Um, I don't need a transplant anymore. In fact, they want to do surgery and close the hole in my heart and reroute some of the veins. Wendytwitch.gif

 

I recently had a Heart Cath to measure the pressures in my lungs and the left and right sides of my heart, and my Cardiologist is fucking amazed. All of my pressures are pretty fucking close to normal.

 

I am literally an unprecedented medical abnormality. What's happened to me does not happen to anyone ever. I'm on a couple of trial drugs [Tyvaso and Letaris] and apparently that shit fucking works.

 

Let me put it this way, when I was admitted to the hospital, I was not expected to leave until after I'd had a transplant, if I survived that long. My current equipment was expected to completely fail in a year or two at most. I had a heart cath around the beginning of November, and I literally died on the operating table, shortly after I died again in a hospital bed. Both times I was revived.

 

Two months later, just after Christmas, I was doing well enough to get a discharge. I was told I still needed a transplant, but that if I continued on as I was I could expect to delay it for several years. The medications were stabilizing me better than expected, and they were hoping it would continue for a while and that I could squeeze out a couple of more years by delaying transplant as long as possible. I was not anywhere near to normal mind you, but well enough I could get through daily life if I didn't push myself.

 

Now, today, I'm told that my pressures are on the high end of normal. Not just in part of my heart, or just in my lungs. Across the board. They want to do surgery and fix the hole in my heart. In a month or two, I should be in better condition than I've ever been in my life. eek.gif Huh?

 

I had to get him to repeat that a couple of times just to be sure I was hearing it right.

 

The right side of my heart will never be completely normal again, but if things go as planned, it's a very real possibility that it could get damn close to normal...I'm possibly looking at what could only be described as pretty much full recovery.

 

Seriously. I'm an Atheist, and I've got what amounts to a miracle cure. It's awesome.

 

I do have to have major heart surgery, which sucks...sort of. Bear in mind I've been repeatedly told that they were going to rip out my entire respiratory system and put in one that they cut out of someone else just before they died, and that after that my life expectancy was about five fucking years after that. Can you imagine what it's like to be relieved by someone telling you that you're going to have open heart surgery? It's seriously weird.

 

I'm not out of the woods yet, I've still got to be careful, and open heart surgery is obviously risky. However, it's still less risky than staying in my current condition and having a transplant later.

 

I'm not quite sure what to do yet, it's fucking epic that this is even a possibility. Nothing is scheduled yet but an MRI, and then I have to schedule a dentist appointment, but it will probably all happen within a month or two. Not sure yet, but it sounds like they want to do it very soon. I humored thoughts of this nature before, but never believed that it might actually happen. Doctors repeatedly told me that there wasn't any real chance that it would happen. This sort of recovery was extremely unlikely.

 

Yet, here I am, and near as I can tell, it's actually happening.

 

I'm not sure what to think about it all just yet.

 

Don't worry, this hasn't changed my opinion of God.

 

Science and Modern Medicine is fucking awesome.


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