Robbobrob Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I have heard it said that Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship. A personal relationship with God. But how is that relationship created? Through reading scriptures? A book might be a handy way to learn about someone's life or attitudes. But does it really get you to know the person? If you have the relationship, why do you need the book? Kind of like reading someone's biography, then meeting the person, but instead of getting to know the person, you only accept what is written about them. Even if all of it is correct information, it is never even close to the whole story about the person. How much greater (larger) would a biography about God really need to be to even remotely hope to cover everything about God. I feel comfortable in my belief that God has revealed to me directly as much of Himself as He feels comfortable doing at this time. When he is ready, I'm right here. No middleman biographer needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I have heard it said that Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship. A personal relationship with God. But how is that relationship created? Through reading scriptures? A book might be a handy way to learn about someone's life or attitudes. But does it really get you to know the person? If you have the relationship, why do you need the book? Kind of like reading someone's biography, then meeting the person, but instead of getting to know the person, you only accept what is written about them. Even if all of it is correct information, it is never even close to the whole story about the person. How much greater (larger) would a biography about God really need to be to even remotely hope to cover everything about God. I feel comfortable in my belief that God has revealed to me directly as much of Himself as He feels comfortable doing at this time. When he is ready, I'm right here. No middleman biographer needed. Well, from my "personal experience" and that of the Christians in the email exchange in which I'm currently involved, those Christians who say they have a "personal relationship" with Jesus don't believe they need the bible. They believe the bible and trust it as "God's Word", but they also believe that because they are "filled with the holy spirit", they have a direct line to God through that "in-dwelling". Of course they can't prove it. They can't introduce you to God. They can't show him to you. And when you bring these points up, they just throw up the "spirit" card and believe they have trumped you. They say that since you are not a creature of spirit, you can't experience God. I've got a couple right now telling me that any Christians who don't have that kind of relationship and ability to commune with God are not "true Christians". Typical. I was where they were at one time. I believed that God "spoke" to me. No, there was never any actual voice. I just took my own personal intuition as his voice, exactly as these folks are doing. So obviously, the scriptures are the necessary component to have the "relationship" with God. Without them, you have no guidelines to follow and interpret your personal feelings. With the bible, when your feelings tell you something that doesn't jibe with it, your feelings are your own. When they tell you something that is in line with it, your feelings are the spirit of God communing with you. The scary thing is that some of the people that I debate this crap with are intelligent professionals who actually believe they can see into another "dimension" that they call the "spirit realm." Very disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamFWN Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I have heard it said that Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship. A personal relationship with God. But how is that relationship created? Through reading scriptures? A book might be a handy way to learn about someone's life or attitudes. But does it really get you to know the person? If you have the relationship, why do you need the book? Kind of like reading someone's biography, then meeting the person, but instead of getting to know the person, you only accept what is written about them. Even if all of it is correct information, it is never even close to the whole story about the person. How much greater (larger) would a biography about God really need to be to even remotely hope to cover everything about God. I feel comfortable in my belief that God has revealed to me directly as much of Himself as He feels comfortable doing at this time. When he is ready, I'm right here. No middleman biographer needed. I guess God must be big on long-distance relationships. Maybe when you die you get a questionnaire that you have to fill out. If you know enough about God from the Bible, then you go to heaven and have a more intimate relationship with him. If you fail the test, you get to read the Bible forever (Hell enough alone). Ah well, I've heard of people having "relationships" with fictional characters. There really is nothing new under the sun, besides what is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Oh yeah, a direct line to God through the Holy Spirit. But of course you still need to judge everything you hear and feel on what it says in the bible. I'm sure glad I don't need to consult a manual on my loved ones to be able to have a relationship with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I think the gist of it is that god is not just the creator of the universe, but he is specifically concerned with the individual. As in any relationship it requires a lifetime of commitment and devotion. I think some people take this "relationship" way too far. After all, god is pretty neglectful isn't he. He's also seeing every other Christian on the planet, talk about unfaithful, and disappears when you need him the most. He also has a history of abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 To save you from eternal damnation you have to call on Jesus and have a personal relationship with him. or To save you from the Death Eaters you have to call on Harry Potter and have a personal relationship with him. And we're to assume that one of these two arguments are true and the other is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I've heard the "relationship-not-religion" thing before, but never the "don't need the Wholly Babble" bit One cannot know a thing about Xian mythology or deities without the Wholly Babble. Either the convert needs to read portions of it, or someone who has needs to use material from it. The damned book is necessary no matter how you slice it. If this god(s) really did exist, it wouldn't need to use the Bible to reach anyone - it could just do it, like magic. Just present itself to anyone and facilitate instant belief. The fact that human beings are necessary to convey this god to others proves said deity cannot possibly exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I've heard the "relationship-not-religion" thing before, but never the "don't need the Wholly Babble" bit One cannot know a thing about Xian mythology or deities without the Wholly Babble. Either the convert needs to read portions of it, or someone who has needs to use material from it. The damned book is necessary no matter how you slice it. If this god(s) really did exist, it wouldn't need to use the Bible to reach anyone - it could just do it, like magic. Just present itself to anyone and facilitate instant belief. The fact that human beings are necessary to convey this god to others proves said deity cannot possibly exist. If you have the babble in your hands and read it study it and pray from it you get nothing. When a cock is in your hand and its used appropriately you feel things and get tangible results. Now thats my kind of religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 If you have the babble in your hands and read it study it and pray from it you get nothing. When a cock is in your hand and its used appropriately you feel things and get tangible results. Now thats my kind of religion! And if you believe some commentaries about the origins of religion, worship of genitalia ranks very high on the list. Being where life is create and all the creative forces of nature are symbolized by. It is why it is a shame Christians deny a female counterpart to their Father. They miss out on all the great sex rites that such a creative relationship entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 If you have the babble in your hands and read it study it and pray from it you get nothing. When a cock is in your hand and its used appropriately you feel things and get tangible results. Now thats my kind of religion! Simple truth, simply stated And if you believe some commentaries about the origins of religion, worship of genitalia ranks very high on the list. Being where life is create and all the creative forces of nature are symbolized by. It is why it is a shame Christians deny a female counterpart to their Father. They miss out on all the great sex rites that such a creative relationship entails. Indeed - think of all the fun innuendos Xianity would've had. All the lovely erotic artwork involving the divine couple, all the rituals that would be created to honor their couplings. Yahooweh probably would have been far less pent-up and a lot more merciful; there would be no Hell, no blackmail to believe upon pain of eternal torture, Satan would probably get a divine pardon, etc. Ah, what a good relationship can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 but they also believe that because they are "filled with the holy spirit", they have a direct line to God through that "in-dwelling"................ With the bible, when your feelings tell you something that doesn't jibe with it, your feelings are your own. When they tell you something that is in line with it, your feelings are the spirit of God communing with you. Yes, when it's them that are getting messages that agree with the bible it's god communing with them. But when I have the same kind of feelings it's the devil communing with me. Funny how this depends on who is having the feelings. All I would have to do to change this is profess to believe in god and accept salvation through the shed blood of christ. Even if I was lying and said it, I would have their blessing because they can't tell the difference between truth and falsehood. All they go by is profession of belief. That is so utterly futile. Yet they build not only their lives but their hope for an eternal life after death on mere words spoken by human tongue. The scary thing is that some of the people that I debate this crap with are intelligent professionals who actually believe they can see into another "dimension" that they call the "spirit realm." Very disturbing. Does this interfere with their professional lives? Or do they have a partition in their brain--one side they use for their everyday performance and the other side they use when in church or talking religion? If the latter, I don't think we have need to worry. If the former, be aware of using their service and report any misdemeanor that stems from religion. My guess is they would not be professionals (they'd get kicked out) if they let their religion impact their professional practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 This personal relationship thing has been on my mind lately as it's something that I keep reading in some apologetic forums. What is it, exactly? What is the scriptural support for such a thing? In my opinion, this is something that is relatively new in Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Late 19th Century earliest, almost certainly American Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I would much rather have a relationship with Gwyneth Paltrow. At least I know she is real and I know what she looks like: "Drop Dead Gorgeous". That would be much more satisfying that a fake "relationship" with a non-existant "god". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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