[AKR]

So, I've been doing a series of Christian Nationalist awareness threads on another site, and people just don't seem to give a shit. I mean, there's a lot of atheists/agnostics there, and some liberal Christians and people of other religions, and they just don't get involved with my threads. My other threads get quite a bit of attention from both sides, but these ones get little or no answers from anyone who is not defending their dominionist agenda. Do they not take CN's serious? Do they not realize their power or their agenda? I'd wager most people here are concerned about them, probably because a lot of you grew up in these homes and had an idea of what was going on. Here is my post from my thread asking why so few people respond to my series of threads:

Quote

It seems my CN threads don't have very many atheists/agnostics, people of other religions, or even liberal Christians involved. It seems it's only people defending dominionism. Is it because they tend to be longer than your attention span, or do you not realize that CN's are all of the people who are causing such an uproar in this country? Abortion? Gay rights? Iraq war? Environment?

These people are the very force that put Bush into office - both of them. They are the ones keeping homosexuals from equal rights. They are the ones trying to ban abortion and withold birth control from people. They are the ones that put warning stickers on Evolution text books. They are the ones that push creationism on the public school system. They are the ones that spend billions of your dollars on sex and science miseducation. They spend your money on proselytizing to people in prison, or in their rehab centers, or their planned parenthood type facilities. They are the ones firing or refusing to hire people that are of other religions, or are gay, or are of no religion, all the while being given your tax dollars to do so. They are using the military to aggressively convert other soldiers to their religion. They are trying to rule the land under the laws of the Bible, while destroying logic and science. Some of them may even say they believe in the separation of church and state, but how do they vote? Do they go by the politician score cards sent out by the huge Christian Nationalist groups? Do they vote for someone because they are endorsed by radio or tv hosts that have a dominionist agenda? Do they vote for the politician with Christian morals? Do they vote based on their morality found in the Bible, and not based on logic and evidence? If so, then they are Christian Nationalists. If they vote according the Biblical morality, then they are voting for a Christian government.


If my threads are too long for most people's attention span, I understand why they don't get much action; but they are important, and if it's for a lack of concern, then wake the f*ck up. They stand against liberty and justice for all. They stand for one nation under the Christian god, with everyone ruled by that god. They are the antithesis of the freedom the US was founded on to specifically avoid such an abuse of power.

It's gotten no replies. I just don't get it. Didn't people watch Jesus Camp? Don't they watch the news? Can they not make the connections? I've been reading some books on the subject now. If anyone is interested, check out "Kingdom Coming." It has a pretty broad view of their revisionist and dominionist ideology and how it's being implimented in America. I'm now working on "With God on our Side," about a Military lawyer who uncovered aggressive Christian proselytizing and religious discrimination. Please tell me there are more people here who are fucking aware, pissed off, and wanting to spread the word about this danger to freedom and separation of church and state.

[MathGeek]

I think after the Islamofascist scare, most people might acknowledge it but they wouldn't care anyway. We live in such a fear-driven society that maybe people are sick of hearing about anything remotely based in fear.

That maybe be it, AKR. People are sick of being told to be afraid.

[florduh]

It was those corksockers that dragged me out of a live and let live relationship.

I was perfectly happy paying no attention to god, church, etc. Simply a non-issue for an atheist.

Problem is, those Bible-thumping nosepickers started messing with laws that affect me and the next generation.

I don't care if our currency says "In God We Trust" because it's meaningless to me and not worth a fight. Abandoning science and logic to teach Creationism in public schools, among other antics, has made me take up the atheist banner and confront their ignorance at every opportunity.

Hardly anyone is paying attention while they slowly steal our country, and I don't know why either.

[nivek]

AKR,

You've joined part of my world. That in which important issues and things to those who care to ruminate on them are found of ZERO importance to "them".

"I don't like politics!" "This shit is SOoooOoooO boring!!!"

Talking about how the political parts of religion make or break the world we live in is usually uninteresting to *most*.

At some point, someone political is gonna make a decision that will effect your life to negative ways. And in turn you'll have to nake a decision if you care to live under than newly cast in stone rule, or choose "Option X".

That goes onto another entire line of discussion however...

You'll find most people are blissfully unaware and in turn uncaring about what happens "by their betters"...

This Freedom oriented mean_old_man keeps his head down, listens to whispers in the winds..

kFL

[MathGeek]

Or it could be the mantra: Hard Work Pays Off Later, But Laziness Pays Off Now.

[Light_of_Reason]

I agree with the mean_old_man, but I'd add that too many people don't see the danger because it doesn't directly affect them in the here and now, which is where their concerns are mostly. These people haven't the wherewithall to look to things that will affect them in the later if left unchecked.

[par4dcourse]

Or it's become so commonplace as to seem acceptable.

[Madame M]

Oh yea, they worry me. In their stupidity they will turn this country into a christian middle east. I've been worried because I have been around alot of quiver-full families. I know how they are conditioned to put aside common sense for "god's will". I'm pretty sure the breeder movement (quiverfull) and dominionism are tied up together. All quiverfull families may not be acknowledged dominionists but they are conditioned to be in line with the ideology. Most people don't take my concerns about the quiverfull types with their propensity toward homeschooling seriously either. I usually get some line about public schools. The problem that I see though is that in this case these families become like mini-cults with their kids being isolated and saturated with christian idealism, pseudo science..etc. The movement is growing too.

I became particularly concerned when Mike Huckabee got such a backing. Sure he ultimately was not the republican nominee, but he was giving McCain quite a run. That shows me there is a growing movement of support for fundamentalist christianity. Give them another decade to grow up another crop of little quiverfulls, more fundies converted due to fear and we may have serious problem. Especially with the US being in a recession, we are in a climate the breeds fear and people do crazy things when they are afraid.

[R. S. Martin]

I don't know if I can respond appropriately. This is why I started Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion (sig). I didn't know Christian Nationalists was the name for this brand of humanity. So long as I thought it was only the conservative Amish and Mennonites who had this "quiverful" ideology (that somehow breeds a whole lot of other stuff along with kids to keep the ideology alive for untold infinities), I had hope for humanity. Then I got onto the internet and online forums and saw that this attitude was alive and well among far larger populations--among people who would not hesitate to take up arms and act out the ideology.

This is Militant Religion.

Okay, just now I typed the words "militant religion" into Google. Here is one of the results: The Meek and the Militant: Religion and Power Across the World, by Paul N. Siegel. From Editoral Reviews: "the impact of religion on politics, whether Islam in the Middle East or right-wing Christian fundamentalism in North America."

For some people words like "fighting" and "militant" are too strong. Fine. I don't use bombs and canons. Better methods need be found than weapons of mass destruction. However, education isn't working either. Regardless of what all lacks the public education systems of the West, the past two centuries in Western countries have seen the best education on mass scale ever known in human history.

What have we done with that education? Major efforts over the past century have gone into learning how more effectively to kill each other off. It started in 1914. We're still at it. Oh, by the way, at the same time we also learned how to save lives and we've become really good at it. On paper, one sort of cancels the other out. EDUCATION IS NOT WORKING.

Fight with words, not your fists, we are told. IT'S NOT WORKING!!!! Nor are weapons of mass destruction working. Better means need to be found. But WHAT???

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's part of what this thread is about. AKR, I'm glad to see somebody cares.

[Robbobrob]

florduh, on Jun 12 2008, 02:43 PM, said:

Abandoning science and logic to teach Creationism in public schools

This is my personal battle line. Reason I'm a Pastafarian. And have helped stop such nonsense in Florida recently.

[florduh]

It was stopped in Florida - just barely. And they'll be back!

Keep advancing His Noodly Appendage, Rob!

[leftofpunk]

I got Michelle Goldberg's book Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism and it was a pretty good read and well, I must have a second pressing or something because by the time I got to the end there was a newly written Epilogue that pretty much canceled everything she was talking about out.

Paraphrased, it essentially said All of the people I talk about in this book are either dead or not in office anymore.

Not that the problem is gone or anything, i just found that interesting.

[Valgeir]

I think Skip nailed it, but I always think Skip nailed it.

People do not care for a couple of reasons.

One, it's not flashy and exciting and sexy - the most terrifying things I've ever seen were government documents. Paperwork.

Two, they've been cowed into acceptance of a certain social hierarchy which places them at the lowest rung, the "I've been told to grin and welcome the inmates on behalf of our Wise and Glorious Chairman" level. They will do whatever they're told when they feel that it comes from "higher up." I'm not even kidding. The Milgram experiment, the example of a "police officer" calling Burger King and having a manager sexually assault a young girl working there.

So if it's not Tom Cruise blowing John Travolta, or they're told by The Powers That Be "not to worry about it, just let it go," then it's not a big deal. There's "Other Folks" to worry about these Troubles.

I've got my "Option X" ready, and I heartily recommend you do the same.

[AKR]

leftofpunk, on Jun 13 2008, 01:17 PM, said:

I got Michelle Goldberg's book Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism and it was a pretty good read and well, I must have a second pressing or something because by the time I got to the end there was a newly written Epilogue that pretty much canceled everything she was talking about out.

Paraphrased, it essentially said All of the people I talk about in this book are either dead or not in office anymore.

Not that the problem is gone or anything, i just found that interesting.

Huh, well I didn't get that version of the book, but I don't believe she really meant that it cancelled anything out. Near the beginning of the book, I think, it talks about how some of these people come and go, but they are often easily replaceable, and the movement continues. Some of the people she mentioned in the book are still are in power or are still quite influential. I see many of these names popping up again and again. They may start new organizations, or get out of one political office, but they usually come back in another way. If not, they are just replaced by someone else. These people are like terrorist cells; destroy one, and it matters not. The ideology stays strong, and the other cells operate independantly. There is no shortcoming of Christians who still believe everything talked about in that book. A democratic president will (hopefully we get one) help curb some of this nonsense, but for how long? There will still be issues on "lowly" school boards, where these people are constantly trying to undermine real science and squeeze in their creation lies. And then there's always the next big election. They will continue to come at us from all directions, regardless of what happens to some of these disposible leaders.