[jenna]

Kuroikaze, on Jun 23 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

Why is there such anger and tension to the things I say, if you truly believe there is no God and Christianity is a big ball of crap then why worry what I believe?

Its because what you believe affects us, if I live in the country and I have children, I have to worry about them getting a good education because people like you are pushing for junk science to be taught in classrooms.

People who are gay, have to live without being able to marry the one they love, because of Christianities bigotry.

Stem cell research is being stymied, because of an unjustified belief in a soul, meanwhile people are dying of things for which we could find treatments with said research.

Do I need to go on?

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It seems many people on this site have left the Christian faith to follow their own earthly desires, it seems many have done this and come up with arguments why not to believe that God is there for one to justify your sinful desires. I am not saying this about everyone on this site but I do think there are many who are deep down trying to justify their either sexual desires or sinful pleasures of this world by arguing how illogical it is to have a God and how stupid it is to follow Him. Whatever the reason you left the Christian faith I do not know many of you seem to have left heartbroken while many others left to seek your own pleasures not wanting a God to rule over you and tell you what is right and wrong.

I just saw this because I was mostly focusing on your response to me, and I can tell you that I am livid right now.

I told you earlier, that hadn't seen me angry right?

Well how about this.

Fuck off and die you miserable toad. How dare you judge us, you just accused me of claiming to know your heart earlier, and now this shit? You know what our REAL reasons are? Give me a break, another Christan comes along thinks he is better than all us "evil unbelievers" and knows every fucking thing about us. "We just left Christianity to sin"
How dare you fucking judge us.

The nice polite mask finally came off, you finally admit what you think of us, so I don't see why I should be polite to you anymore. If you want to be an asshole, I am more than willing to oblige. The kid gloves just came off, Welcome to the lions den :Duivel:

Please remind me to never piss you off! :blink:

[Neon Genesis]

What I want to know is Nenlow ever going to respond to my posts and tell me why God's actions are justified in Judges 11:29-40? He said in his opening post that he wanted to know why we left Christianity and said he would answer any of our questions if we had any. I posted why I left Christianity and asked him to explain why God's actions are moral in Judges 11:29-40 and he still hasn't responded. It's really rude and disrespectful for him to say that he'll answer ANY of our questions, then when I ask a question he ignores it. I just want to know if Nenlow will ever answer my question or if I'm just waiting my time reading this thread.

[chefranden]

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 02:10 PM, said:

...Actually, it's an apartment building with lots of people living in it. It's a really complex situation. And, on top of that, I would have to travel from my basement in Ontario to Oregon to get shooting lessons from Skip so I could get a license to carry a gun to shoot owls and hawks. Maybe I could figure out how to travel to Oregon but I'm not sure if I could persuade the local police, and I am afraid I would have even more problems persuading all the families in that apartment building even if I had a license from our own Skip himself...

This is why most people will never catch up with the White Rabbit(PBUH). Too many excuses are offered up to avoid the simple demands of being a TrueRabbitarian™. The infidels write laws like no shooting in apartment complexes because they are prejudiced against the White Rabbit and his followers. Choose this day whom you will follow, men, or the White Rabbit. Are you not willing to fall down the Rabbit Hole for him?

[R. S. Martin]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

Well I want to say many of you pulling out stuff with what I am saying and putting your own twist on it and telling me that I am saying certain things that have nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Oh, so you're through with pretending for now. I read this post and I must say this sounds a lot more like your real self than your earlier posts did. We've been there done that. We can detect a scam ten miles away--in the heaviest fog at midnight. And we could see right through your pretenses. That you didn't like it didn't change the fact.

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I will say this is a paragraph of judgmental statements full of lies. Do you know my heart?

Well! So you feel the same about us as we feel about you. Maybe now we can talk. See below.

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Every single person has a desire and void that wants to be filled deep within them.

To use your words: This is a paragraph of judgmental statements full of lies. Do you know my heart?

I personally am quite busy figuring out my own life and how to live it. Part of my responsibility to myself is to keep busy-bodies like you out of my heart and life. Another part of my responsibility is to nurture my Self and to heal from past injustices. One way to do this is get back at the religion that unjustly inflicted these injustices. Since you offer yourself as a punching bag I will gladly and without apology take advantage of the offer.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHO I AM OR WHAT I WANT OR WHAT I NEED.

You may be right or you may be wrong. It is not for you to know or to judge me or any other human being. You came into the Lion's Den preaching the "One True God"--as though there were such a thing--and expected to be respected. That comes across to me as awfully and irremediably STUPID. I acknowledge that "irremediable" is a really strong word. Life has a way of proving me wrong. I hope this will be one of those cases.

In case you don't know it, I also have training in Bible and counseling. So do a lot of other people on here. These forums tend to attract the more intelligent types. "Intelligence" means more than the ability to spell correctly and do higher levels of math. I would not even consider that a sign of intelligence. "The ability to access and manipulate information to solve practical problems in any given situation one is liable to meet up with in life" would be one important kind of intelligence in my estimation. The ability to communicate effectively with individuals holding opposite beliefs and opinions would be a major asset in that kind of intelligence. You seem not to have that latter ability.

If you had that latter ability you would not have come onto an exChristian site with the intention to evangelize before doing an indepth study of our testimonies.

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I do not care who you are and whether you want to admit it or not you have a void within you. Many try to fill it with sexual desires, money, friends, power, things.

Sometimes--actually quite often--when people make such sweeping judgments about those with whom they disagree very strongly, their judgments apply better to themselves than to the people whom they are judging. Is it possible that you have some deep unfulfilled void inside of yourself?

I know I don't--not that you will believe it. I used to so long as I tried to live up to the rules that promised me the peace of God. But once I renounced the hold of the church that imposed those rules the void filled up with an overwhelming peace and joy and liberty that can only be described as the New Birth or Peace that Passeth Understanding--"my cup runneth over." I am a virgin and have none of the things you mention in your list. However, life has never been better and I could not wish for more. Not that it's worth saying this because you won't believe it.

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Every last person will see God face to face and will bow down to Him, but for those who did not choose Him who wanted more before they would follow Him will be cast away only by your choosing.

Of one thing I feel confident. If God exists and I meet him face to face I will be very happy to meet him. And he will love and embrace me for having been true to him in seeking truth at all costs. I think I speak for every exChristian here when I say we exChristians sought for him more earnestly and with more depth and sincerity than any christian who comes here preaching at us, most specifically YOU, nenlow77. (What's with that number of the beast you've got tagged on the end of your name anyway? I chose a name that doesn't carry a number attached to it.)

You imply in the statement quoted that we did not choose him but that we wanted more of something else before we would choose him. It is unrealistic to think you mean what you seem to be saying. Why? Because it is so far outside of what you can possibly know. That is why I am not responding directly to it. Additionally, if you read our testimonies, or even this thread, with any human empathy at all you will see that your statement is simply wrong.

There's still a lot more to your post but it's not worth my energy replying to it. You promise not to believe anything I say anyway.

[Realist]

[quote name='nenlow77' date='Jun 24 2008, 04:03 AM' post='383321']

for anyone
Why is there such anger and tension to the things I say, if you truly believe there is no God and Christianity is a big ball of crap then why worry what I believe? It seems many people on this site have left the Christian faith to follow their own earthly desires, it seems many have done this and come up with arguments why not to believe that God is there for one to justify your sinful desires. I am not saying this about everyone on this site but I do think there are many who are deep down trying to justify their either sexual desires or sinful pleasures of this world by arguing how illogical it is to have a God and how stupid it is to follow Him. Whatever the reason you left the Christian faith I do not know many of you seem to have left heartbroken while many others left to seek your own pleasures not wanting a God to rule over you and tell you what is right and wrong.


"Why is there such anger and tension to the things I say, if you truly believe there is no God and Christianity is a big ball of crap then why worry what I believe?"
..... maybe it is best likened to the Jews being told that Hitler was really a good guy! Can you grasp that? I am sure there would be many people in this world care given the evil you would be trying to spread! I for one see your religion as being one of the worst evils to befall this planet!

"It seems many people on this site have left the Christian faith to follow their own earthly desires, it seems many have done this and come up with arguments why not to believe that God is there for one to justify your sinful desires. I am not saying this about everyone on this site but I do think there are many who are deep down trying to justify their either sexual desires or sinful pleasures of this world by arguing how illogical it is to have a God and how stupid it is to follow Him. Whatever the reason you left the Christian faith I do not know many of you seem to have left heartbroken while many others left to seek your own pleasures not wanting a God to rule over you and tell you what is right and wrong."

All I can say to that is how naive you really are! Guess this is just an extension of your belief system!

[R. S. Martin]

Heimdall, thanks for the explanation about who you are and also for the date, etc.

Neon Genesis, on Jun 23 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

What I want to know is Nenlow ever going to respond to my posts and tell me why God's actions are justified in Judges 11:29-40? He said in his opening post that he wanted to know why we left Christianity and said he would answer any of our questions if we had any. I posted why I left Christianity and asked him to explain why God's actions are moral in Judges 11:29-40 and he still hasn't responded. It's really rude and disrespectful for him to say that he'll answer ANY of our questions, then when I ask a question he ignores it. I just want to know if Nenlow will ever answer my question or if I'm just waiting my time reading this thread.

Neon, people like you and me with real questions wait forever. This nenlow--he or she I think its a she but who knows or who cares (if it's a he we'll find out for sure now)--is too stupid to respond to subtle questions like you raise. We're supposed to raise questions like the Bible says we raise. Questions such as "Jesus' disciples stole his body--and now they say he rose from the dead." What exChristian would be stupid enough to ever say that. But to answer questions about obscure passages in Judges--he/she might have to actually consult the Table of Contents of a Bible to know whether Judges is in the Old or New Testament....I dunno, but if Heimdall's stats are accurate about 80% Christians never reading the Bible.......that is hopelessly ignorant and I wouldn't put it past them.

I got my best answers from agnostic and atheist religious studies profs, exChristians on forums like this, but mostly from the things Christians DIDN'T say. This includes what is NOT in the Bible. The answer from silence thundered so loudly that at looonnngggggg last I concluded that it was the most reliable answer possible. THERE IS NO ANSWER.

And if there is no answer then the Christian doctrine is wrong--empty and baseless. If God does not answer it must be because there is no god who can answer. Likewise, if that passage in Judges sounds like the prejudiced rant of an ancient leader with a religio-political agenda, it probably is exactly that. I didn't look it up so I don't know exactly what it is about.

This nenlow would probably go insane if he/she would take an honest look at the passage you mentioned.

[Neon Genesis]

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

Neon, people like you and me with real questions wait forever. This nenlow--he or she I think its a she but who knows or who cares (if it's a he we'll find out for sure now)--is too stupid to respond to subtle questions like you raise

I think Nenlow is a he since he mentioned earlier in the thread about how he was tempted to have sex with his girlfriend but he decided to wait until marriage.

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And if there is no answer then the Christian doctrine is wrong--empty and baseless. If God does not answer it must be because there is no god who can answer. Likewise, if that passage in Judges sounds like the prejudiced rant of an ancient leader with a religio-political agenda, it probably is exactly that. I didn't look it up so I don't know exactly what it is about.

This nenlow would probably go insane if he/she would take an honest look at the passage you mentioned.

The verses I quoted from Judges was of the story of Jephthah sacrificing his virgin daughter as a burnt offering to the oh-so perfect all-loving Yahweh. I've asked Christians countless number of times to explain to me why God's action in those verses are justified. Nine times out of ten they either just ignore me completely and only respond to questions that are convenient to answer like Nenlow does or they try and rationalize it with God's ways are mysterious, then turn around and try to explain to me what God's ways are. Since I have yet to hear a justification for this or numerous other immoral passages like this, I can only assume like you that there is no answer and the bible is a lie.

This post has been edited by Neon Genesis: 23 June 2008 - 06:13 PM

[.god]

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 03:15 PM, said:

... nenlow77. (What's with that number of the beast you've got tagged on the end of your name anyway? I chose a name that doesn't carry a number attached to it.)

Based on the lack of creativity these days by most internet users, and the naivete of the poster, I would hazard a guess that it's the year of birth for nenlow - 1977. But that's just a guess.. it could be anything, although more often than not it's birth year, birth date or month, etc. It could also be Lucky sevens or something =)

[.god]

Neon Genesis, on Jun 23 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

Neon, people like you and me with real questions wait forever. This nenlow--he or she I think its a she but who knows or who cares (if it's a he we'll find out for sure now)--is too stupid to respond to subtle questions like you raise

I think Nenlow is a he since he mentioned earlier in the thread about how he was tempted to have sex with his girlfriend but he decided to wait until marriage.

I hope he has realistic views of how his first time is going to be then, and how its going to be for her =)
They should at least do a check to make sure everyathing fits together before they get married though :lmao:

Christians aren't allowed to masturbate either right?

[.god]

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This is an emotionalist response... but I will answer your questions. For one I care deeply for you no I do not know you or do not know the heartache you have been through. I never claimed to know what PVC is completely going through and I cannot cure her of her sorrows I wish I could. Only God can heal her broken heart and I do not know the reasonings why she went through such heartache. I do know God wants to heal PVC and want her to be whole hearted because this is why He sent His son to heal the broken hearted.

An yes I was and am going to follow up with PVC to see if she has been healed or if she even felt the presence of God. One of the reasons why I am here is to see from you guys heart why you left God and she seemed to have the most respectable answer from anyone, she did not attack me nor act in anger. She really feels/felt abandoned by God and spoke from her heart which is one of few who have done. I believe God has great plans for everyone I believe God has awesome things for you in your life but you have to let Him in. I believe God has a distinct purpose for every last person's life and only they can fulfill that exact purpose but many do not follow the Lord so their purpose is left unfinished! I do not know for sure she hungers for the Lord but in my spirit I feel that she still hungers for the Lord but maybe I am wrong and she has no desire for God anymore.

Heh, is it any less emotional than yours? Honestly it really doesn't matter to me how much you may or may not care about me.. although I think you are confused. I was not the one going thru the heartache, but rather PVC was telling about her "heartache" in her post. It's these types of slip ups that are sometimes insulting and a bit confusing whether or not you are just not thinking clearly or just not really paying attention - but then I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt and would just assume it's the deluge of posts you have to respond to.

It amazed me how you do not see the hypocrisy of what you say one minute and then something completely opposite the next.
First you back pedal and claim, no you do not know what someone thinks or feels. And then you imply, yes you do know what a person wants or feels.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways. You know or you don't know. You don't say you "don't know" but you "feel you know" - if that isn't based on emotional wishful thinking, then I don't know what is.

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Why is there such anger and tension to the things I say, if you truly believe there is no God and Christianity is a big ball of crap then why worry what I believe?

I know Christianity is a big ball of crap :D
The anger is directed at your attitude, your ignorance, your presumptiousness and your airs sir.
I personally couldn't care less what you believe, but if you don't want people to question the statements that form the basis of your beliefs, why do you think anyone around here would want you to question what they believe.
Why is it ok in your mind that you can come and shove your crap down our throats, but it's not okay for us to push the other direction? You think your shit tastes better than mine?

You make bigoted and baseless assumptions about why ex-christians are not christian, seemingly based on what you've been told not what you've researched or read yourself.. and you start getting uppity when the same is done to you?

I shudder at what you think of one such as I who has never been christian, ex-christian, religious or brainwashed from birth. Yes, I eat babies for lunch too, hold regular orgies at my house, drink rubbing alchohol and grow all types of neurotransmitter-blocking plants in my yard.

Our impression from your conduct is that you envision yourself the star and savior of your own personal movie. The hero who does valiant battle against the perceived evils of the world, up-holding the values and truths that is his right because he's got the super special power.

I'm waiting for the part of the film where the hero begins the long spiral out of his dream, when his world is turned on its head and what he had been taught from birth to be truths become nothing but illusions. It's rather like Neo waking up from the matrix all wet and slimy in a huge city of pods, it's the best part of the film. But fear not.. like Neo, heros from dreams can become heroes in real life as well..

[centauri]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

People used to believe the earth was flat did you know the Bible has always said the earth is a sphere?

No, it does not always say that.
Rev 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

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To be a true follower of Christ you have to have a very strong mind because not only am I constantly being attacked by you, my flesh, but also Satan wants me to discredit the Lord and who he is by speaking lies into my head but I have to stay mentally tough or I will become an exchristian and the plan God had for my life will not be fulfilled.

You still haven't given any evidence that you are a "true" follower of Christ.
Nor have you bothered to define exactly what that is.
Have you sold your material goods, are you using a public computer?
Sheep are not known for having strong minds.
Jesus did not advocate having an independent strong mind.
He advocated obedience to his dictates.

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...I so badly want to have sex with my girlfriend it would be easier for me to have sex with her than wait, but why do I choose to wait because I want my wedding night to be one that I can say I waited to choose you and there is something miraculous for those who wait even if you had already had sex before but then repent and choose to wait for your spouse it is statistically proven that people whether Christian or not who wait to have sex have a more fulfilled sex life in marriage (this is a whole other topic and this is not an attack on those who do not follow those guidelines).

If you really love the Lord and want to concentrate on serving Him, you'll refrain from having sex at all.
If you simply cannot contain your lust, then get married, but you'll not enhance your credibility as a True Christian if you do.
Having a Holy Spirit filling should enable you to devote your full attention to Jesus.
1 Cor 7:8-9,29
I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

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Every last person will see God face to face and will bow down to Him, but for those who did not choose Him who wanted more before they would follow Him will be cast away only by your choosing.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to employ the authoritarian fear factor.
You also ignore the issue of predestination, which the Bible clearly teaches.

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Those screams in Hell for the repentance and for the saving of their souls is a cry too late! Your chance is hear on earth to cry out to Him of course if your in intense agony and have been before Him face to face you would cry out for Him.

More fear, screaming, and agony.
The last refuge of a spiritual THUG.

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But here on earth we cannot have 100% physical evidence that God is real and He made it this way because He wants us to have faith and trust. Trust is believing that someone will do something without knowing the outcome. If you already knew the outcome then there would be no need for faith or trust that God will be there.

Then you need to start trusting every deity that has ever been advertised as God because your version is no more valid than the others are.

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I believe in the word of the Lord ...

But you have given no evidence of that.

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I am only here to profess the truth and it is totally worth my time that if only one of you were encouraged by what I said or recommitted to the Lord or come to the Lord by what I say.

"Truth" has nothing to do with it.
The goal of Chistianity is to expand and dominate over all other beliefs.
It doesn't care in the least how many lies or threats are used in that process.

[Ouroboros]

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

Of all things! I would never have guessed. With those two upper case "I's," followed by the RC (feel free to accidentally think "Roman Catholic" for effect if your brain wants to), it looked for all the world like Roman Numerals and I was sure it's something really importantly official.

Oh, it maybe can be "I Ignore Roman Catholics" too? Or, "Intense Injury from Reading Christianese."

:HaHa:

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When I was young we used to say things like "Written law from Ottawa," and "Orders from Head-quarters." Sounds really official but isn't. I thought perhaps on a par with that.

Okay, from now on--if it sticks to my brain--perhaps I can IIRC, too. :)

And not to be mistaken with IRC, which is Internet Relay Chat.

[Kuroikaze]

jenna, on Jun 23 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

Please remind me to never piss you off! :blink:

Don't worry, I'm actually fairly difficult to piss off. :grin:

Fundies who question my integrity are a special case.

[Taphophilia]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

It is not about convincing I know in my heart that God is true I have experienced His works I have seen His creation, I know Him personally. I have seen healings, miracles, and even love. The peace and joy I have is greater than anything I have ever had. I used to be a lost puppy but now am found! Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that you have extreme peace and joy even if your in the worst of conditions?

Nenlow,

When I was at a crisis of faith, I prayed and prayed and prayed. For over a year, I hung on to Christianity and Jesus because I wanted it to be real. I wanted to believe in Jesus and I wanted to love God. I wanted to serve God and give everything to Him. However, all I asked for was one small little thing. One thing, that the Maker of the Universe could not answer and never did. That one thing would have not only kept me in the faith, but many others here as well.

All I asked for was one small piece of concrete evidence outside the Bible and Christianity that Jesus and Christianity were true. Didn't even Thomas have that? Can you provide it?

Also, why are there forgeries in the Bible? You quoted I Corinthians, it's a forgery, meaning it wasn't written by Paul, when it says that it is. How do we know it's not written by Paul? Because Paul died in 64 AD during the Neronian persecution. I Corinthians was written well after 64 AD. It's a forgery. Why would God allow forgeries as His Word?

The Bible was written by men and inspired by God. I'll give you that. We can say that the Bible as it was originally written were God's own infallible word to us. Guess what, no one has ever seen it. Not even the people who were writing it, have seen the Bible as it was originally written.

By the time that last books were written the earlier ones were already worn out and copied. They didn't have computers back then. They didn't even have a printing press. The few people who could read and write back then, and not very well, copied them by hand. Have you ever copied anything by hand? You make mistakes. Than the copies with the mistakes were copied and they had new mistakes and so on and so on. The texts were changed.

How do we know the texts were changed? Because of all the copies that we have, there are more differences in them than there are words in the New Testament.

We don't have first copies, or second copies, or even third copies. What we have are copies that are in many cases centuries removed for the originals. The only way to know what we have today is God's Word is to compare them to the originals. Guess what, we don't have them. We have no idea what they said. We have no idea what is God's Word and what isn't.

If God's Word was so important to us, why didn't God preserve it for us, so that we would know what it is?

[R. S. Martin]

Neon Genesis, on Jun 23 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

R. S. Martin, on Jun 23 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

Neon, people like you and me with real questions wait forever. This nenlow--he or she I think its a she but who knows or who cares (if it's a he we'll find out for sure now)--is too stupid to respond to subtle questions like you raise

I think Nenlow is a he since he mentioned earlier in the thread about how he was tempted to have sex with his girlfriend but he decided to wait until marriage.

Thanks for filling me in. Admittedly, I skip a lot of what he writes after I get the gist of a post. It's too repetitive and boring. For a lot--but not all--of his posts I just read first lines of paragraphs if that much. All the same, Nenlow, if you're reading this, if you don't want me to see something better not post it. You never know what mood strikes me or what catches my interest. Sometimes something in the middle of a long paragraph grabs my attention--you never know. Not that my opinion would matter...

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The verses I quoted from Judges was of the story of Jephthah sacrificing his virgin daughter as a burnt offering to the oh-so perfect all-loving Yahweh. I've asked Christians countless number of times to explain to me why God's action in those verses are justified. Nine times out of ten they either just ignore me completely and only respond to questions that are convenient to answer like Nenlow does or they try and rationalize it with God's ways are mysterious, then turn around and try to explain to me what God's ways are. Since I have yet to hear a justification for this or numerous other immoral passages like this, I can only assume like you that there is no answer and the bible is a lie.

That story is a particularly terrible one. It's a story I have struggled with a LOT. The same goes for the passage in Paul about hardening Pharaoh's heart and judging Esau evil before he was born. I can see how these stories were comforting for the Israelites as a people, and how they helped form them as a people or society in the early days. I think every society has its own national or tribal or folk heroes. (By "folk heroes" I mean as in baseball has its heroes and the computer industry has its hereos, etc. and these may well cross international or other geographical/social boundaries.) However, all these Bible stories explain is how the Edomites and Israelites came to be enemies rather than allies. Etc.

The fantastic plagues of Egypt probably never happened, though there might be a tiny grain of truth somewhere in the story if anyone knew how or where to look for it. (Maybe there was a group of slaves that got away in the middle of the night while the army was engaged elsewhere.) As for Esau selling his birthright for a bowl of soup, maybe he did and maybe he didn't. According to how things played out later in their lives when it came time to claim the birthright, it seems no one except Jacob remembered the sale, and definitely no one else expected to honor it. Jacob used outright deceit, trickery, and even lied to his blind father, in order to get it. So much for honouring your father and mother, for not stealing, for not bearing false witness, for not coveting, etc. Oh let's see, the Ten Commandments weren't written yet.

Maybe that's why they had to be written--Jacob's descendents were no better than the patriarch. Funny how the world's Messiah was born of his seed. Or maybe not. Maybe it was precisely because Jacob was such a dickhead and because his descendents were no better that God had to send his own Son to set them straight. According to their testimonies, Christians are among the worst humans alive so perhaps there is a reason why they need a book to tell them how to live. If they were even worse than Jacob and his Genocidal Maniacal God without the book they better have a book.

But I seriously doubt that they would be as bad as they are if they would trash the book. Humans in general seem to be better than this particular God/Jacob set-up. The book tells them they have to be bad enough to be saved so they have to do something bad. Otherwise they can't be saved and then they can't be Christians. That is NOT ACCEPTABLE!

[Kuroikaze]

Neon Genesis, on Jun 23 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

What I want to know is Nenlow ever going to respond to my posts and tell me why God's actions are justified in Judges 11:29-40?

I wouldn't count on it. I asked him three times for proof of gods existence and all he said was that I already had adequate proof, but I'm too much of an evil sinner to admit it.

He is a sanctimonious ass, who can only restore to personal attacks and ad hominems when he has nothing useful to say...which seems to be quite a bit.

[chefranden]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

I truly care for you and your eternal life, I would love to have you up in heaven with me.

Prove it!

[nenlow77]

Okay there are a lot of posts to get to and Neon I want you to know I have not forgotten you at all, I do not have a ton of time right now to respond but I will try to very soon. I do want to say to Kuroikaze I never told you why you left the Christian faith I never said to you the reasons why you left. I just said that I believe there are some to leave for reasons that I pointed out earlier and I even stated clearly that not everyone left the faith for those reasons. I am sorry if anything came across offensive to you. I do not think in any way shape or form that I am better than you or anyone here. I am not trying to force my belief on anyone. i truly just care for you guys and am telling you my heart and from where I come and the things that I think are true. I never said hey Kuroikaze you have to listen to me and believe what I am saying, obviously you have a problem with a lot of what I say and I am okay with that. I do long for you to see what I have in my life with Christ. I am not making illogical or misinformed judgments on you guys about how you searched out the Lord. Who am I to say what you did and how you did it? Only God can judge your hearts, but by what you guys have said it really does seem to me that many of you maybe not all have not had a trusting relationship with the Lord like I have (this is not a how great am I statement because it is not b/c of me but only b/c of Him I am anything). I do believe many and maybe even you Kuroikaze have searched and searched for answers from the Lord and never got them so it is understandable that when you try for something and nothing comes from it a person would turn away from it. I am not saying I have something new but I do think many of you have not really seen the works of the Lord, it is easier for me b/c I have seen healings, my dad does mission work in Peru and has seen a baby that has been dead for 3 days be prayed over and healed these are signs of the Lord.

I will get back to more posts later and Neon you will be the first I respond to sorry for the delay. I will also talk more about why not everyone is healed and not every one with a broken heart finds healing. I am not here to judge or attack those who do not believe what I am saying and I am very sorry if anything I have posted has come across as attacks at who you are or your characters as exchristians.

[chefranden]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

I have seen healings, miracles, and even love.

I haven't seen any miracles, so why should I believe?

I asked above "Why doesn't God heal Amputees?" Why do you choose to ignore the question? Could it be that you know that miracles are bullshit?

Do you consider the finding of a parking place near the door at Costco a miracle?

For every miracle you can mention I can give you ten miseries that God chose to ignore. Your witness to miracles is crap. The very fact that you think it takes faith to accept the findings of science, makes me doubt your capabilities as an observer.

In fact you claimed to be here to answer questions about Christianity, and you have yet to answer any of them. You just carry on and on about the validity of your own experience, and by implication the invalid nature of any Ex-Christian experience. This isn't testimony time during Sunday service. It is high time you get off this sanctimonious crap and get down to business -- that is if you actually know anything about Christian theology outside of your emotionalism.

You could start by explaining why, if Ezekiel 18 is the word of God as it claims, that you need a savior.

[Kuroikaze]

nenlow77, on Jun 23 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

I do want to say to Kuroikaze I never told you why you left the Christian faith I never said to you the reasons why you left.

You may say this now, but earlier you said this.

Quote

There is plenty of evidence so still you are choosing to believe God is inexistent which means you are saying you can live life with out him and are fine with it so until you decide otherwise you have chosen not to be with him.

Your a fucking liar, and a judgmental asshole....either that or your too stupid to recognize the implications of the things you say. Either way, I have little reason to trust a thing you say.

I don't accept your fake apology. You do nothing here but convince us even more that Christianity nonsense.