[Justin]

You know in the bible it talkes about the ridiculous amount of gold used in the construction of the temple, ridiculous even when you exclude the pathetic proportions of it. Now, christians who believe in the flood say that the flood layed down all these layers of sediment that turned to rock and that is how they say we have a fossil record. My question is, where the hell did they get all those tons of gold used in the temple when a global flood supposedly layed down hundreds of feet of layers of sediment that miraculously turned to rock super deduper quickly just 1,500 years prior to this? Are they actually saying that gold formed that freakin quick and in such availablity in the flood layers in that short period of time? Or, did they borrow through all the flood layers to reach the original ground of the earth before the flood to harvest the gold?

Christians who read this, can't you see that you should engage brain before mouth and actually do something calling THINKING??? Simply doing that should make you see how damn STUPID your book and beliefs are.

[R. S. Martin]

Justin, on Jun 23 2008, 11:40 AM, said:

You know in the bible it talkes about the ridiculous amount of gold used in the construction of the temple, ridiculous even when you exclude the pathetic proportions of it. Now, christians who believe in the flood say that the flood layed down all these layers of sediment that turned to rock and that is how they say we have a fossil record. My question is,

N-n-no-no-No-NO! Justin, WAIT! We're not supposed to ask this kind of question. We're supposed to just learn about geology and please just leave it at that. Okay? Just learn enough to pass the exam and get your degree. That's all you need to know, okay?

Listen, there was this flood. And we can see what the world is like today. Just forget about all those complicated details. They really are not important at all. What we need to know for salvation is that Jesus died to pay our ransom and that God accepts us no matter how sinful we are--IF WE BELIEVE and confess that we are sinners. But that is the important item--THAT WE CONFESS AND BELIEVE.

Huh??? This is me, Ruby, speaking in my own voice now. Somehow I'm supposed to trust the teachings and wisdom of people who gloss over such blatant scientific facts as unrealistic tons of gold reported in God's own infallible and inerrant Word to have been used in the Temple?

Okay, I Ruby am appropriately stupid and ignorant when it comes to this kind of factual knowledge. But when it comes to the social sciences and humanities I'm right in there with all the incisive questions that Christians absolutely hate! They might blame formal education for this but they would be wrong! I've had these questions since I first heard the stories when I was a child of perhaps seven or eight years old. Others on here have had the same kinds of questions and insights. These things happen!

"Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou hast ordained praise." Thus spake Jesus according to one of the gospels. Christians love to dig out this verse depending what cute things their kids say. By rights, they should also apply it when exChristians testify to having had these convictions since they were little kids themselves. I like to think that "God" is just another word for "truth" personified. From that perspective, in our search for truth most of us exChristians have gone waayyyyy beyond what the Christian evangelists have gone who come on here preaching. Some of us have stood up for truth despite severe persecution from family and friends.

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where the hell did they get all those tons of gold used in the temple when a global flood supposedly layed down hundreds of feet of layers of sediment that miraculously turned to rock super deduper quickly just 1,500 years prior to this? Are they actually saying that gold formed that freakin quick and in such availablity in the flood layers in that short period of time? Or, did they borrow through all the flood layers to reach the original ground of the earth before the flood to harvest the gold?

The problem with this "question" is that it throws doubt on the entire structure of the Faith. That is simply not permitted. Forget that it is called faith. Faith can, supposedly and avowedly, stand on its own without evidence and support.

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Christians who read this, can't you see that you should engage brain before mouth and actually do something calling THINKING??? Simply doing that should make you see how damn STUPID your book and beliefs are.

[I will use a hypothetical case from my family. This didn't happen in my family, and it never will because Mom died a year ago, but it could have. Supposing I had this conversation with my mother and sisters:]

Mom: You see what happened to you when you did that--you stopped believing altogether!

Me: And what's so bad about that?

Mom: If you don't repent you will go to hell! You know that.

Me: Hell would have to exist for that to happen...

Mom and sisters: intelligible but loud exclamations of horror

They really do believe this stuff. It's really real to them. Sad, sad situation. Don't know how to help them. They feel the same about me.