[FiddlingAround]

I haven't posted much about my grandmother here, so let me offer a brief description: abusive, manipulative, power-hungry, self-pitying...and smart enough to mostly get away with it. Two years ago, it became clear that she was only getting worse, and it was my cousins who were paying the price. She had taken to hitting one of them, slapping her across the face. Another she threatened to beat with her cane. But it was the third who was the biggest source of concern. My grandmother had roped her into an insane codependent relationship. My cousin was convinced that she needed my grandmother to do her thinking for her: tell her who to date, who her friends should be, how to do her hair. In return for this help, my grandmother made her into a slave the the most frequent target of her screaming rages. My cousin was becoming suicidal, but could not be convinced to cut ties.

A year ago, we finally managed to extricate my cousin from this situation, and by extension extricated ourselves. We imposed rules upon my grandmother, limiting her contact to the cousins and my little sisters. In response, she took every opportunity to be as nasty as she thought she could get away with. We cut off contact altogether. My grandmother continues to think of herself as a sainted victim in all of this. It is clear from her periodic attempts at communication that there has been no change whatsoever in her attitude.

Now my aunt (and my mother, but mostly my aunt) has invited her to Thanksgiving! I don't believe she has accepted, though there's still a chance. I think this is absolutely insane. They call this moving on; I call it going back. They are deliberately exposing my cousins to her nastiness, and offering her the opportunity to get my claws into my little sisters. My youngest sister, age 5, is exactly the type of child my grandmother likes to take, bend to her will, and own utterly and completely. I know exactly what that's like because that was me once, until I became a teenager and got pissed off enough to get myself out. I had no backup from my family, which they feel quite guilty about now. But that guilt apparently isn't enough to keep them from doing the same thing to my sister.

And if they invite her to Christmas? She'd probably show up for that one. I'm not sure I can go, if she is going to be there. I'm not sure I can look her in the eye and be friendly and let all her little barbs pass by. But on the other hand, if the one person who has sense enough to realize this is a bad idea, who's going to protect the younger crowd?

Really, am I being unreasonable here?

[godlessgrrl]

No. I don't think you're being unreasonable.

We stay away from poisons and toxins, try to avoid injury, and protect ourselves from disease. Why? Because they can hurt, even kill us. I think the same thing goes for toxic people.

All too often folks will return to abusive family members just because they're family. I say fuck that. People who count for family are people who love you, regardless of blood ties - and abuse isn't love.

But no. You're not being unreasonable. Sounds like your family is being foolish and blind, and you're the only voice of reason among them.

I hope something works out okay.

[FiddlingAround]

Thanks Gwenmead. I don't think I'm being unreasonable, but it's good sometimes to check against an outside source. It's bloody insane.

[FiddlingAround]

And I just know that when I try to talk to my aunt about this, she's going to say that she felt like God was telling her to do it. How the hell do I respond to that without outing myself? Knowing I've gone Ex-C will probably negate any possibility of them listening to me on this one, not to mention creating a whole lot of peripheral drama.

[Shyone]

Don't worry too much about exposing the young to her manipulative and abusive behavior and words. Prepare them. Make it a game if you think it can be done prudently. Then, when she's gone, talk to them. See if they agree with what you had said earlier. See if they have questions.

You can't always be there for the young, but you can give them the tools to deal with difficult people. This could be one of the most important lessons you could pass on to them - one they will always remember.

<kidding>
Maybe you could also teach them how to respond. Like, "Wow, that's really fucked up!"
</kidding>

[FiddlingAround]

Shyone, on 20 November 2009 - 08:00 PM, said:

Don't worry too much about exposing the young to her manipulative and abusive behavior and words. Prepare them. Make it a game if you think it can be done prudently. Then, when she's gone, talk to them. See if they agree with what you had said earlier. See if they have questions.

You can't always be there for the young, but you can give them the tools to deal with difficult people. This could be one of the most important lessons you could pass on to them - one they will always remember.

<kidding>
Maybe you could also teach them how to respond. Like, "Wow, that's really fucked up!"
</kidding>

Hmmm...advice to ponder.

Yeah...started to write more, but I'm still pondering.

I'll think this over.

[Kurari]

Hell no you aren't being unreasonable.

Send a strong message to your family that you aren't coming at all. You are absolutely right this is "Going back." This woman is insane and you deserve protection more than your other family members deserve to keep floating on Denial.

[Snakefoot]

FiddlingAround, on 20 November 2009 - 05:27 PM, said:

And I just know that when I try to talk to my aunt about this, she's going to say that she felt like God was telling her to do it. How the hell do I respond to that without outing myself? Knowing I've gone Ex-C will probably negate any possibility of them listening to me on this one, not to mention creating a whole lot of peripheral drama.

Here are some thoughts that might help, but they work only if you are willing to bite the bullet and accept whatever estrangement might result:

1. If these people were strangers rather than family, how would you handle it? Many years ago, I came to the conclusion that blood doesn't mean spit; that family relations were among the worst people I knew; and that a blood relation who was an asshole was still an asshole. I made this position clear and well known to my family, and even backed it with scripture/Jeebus precedent (Mark 3:33 et seq).

2. Tell your family plainly that having her at family gatherings is "a dog returning to its vomit" and that Paul exhorted to "turn away" from those that "cause divisions among you" (Romans 16:17).

3. Do not be swayed by "but she is just getting old" arguments. An old asshole is still an asshole, and if they have always been an asshole, well, they are still an asshole in every sense.

4. State clearly your concerns for your sister and that you will not tolerate her exposure to an abusive relation.

5. Be prepared to stand your ground and go though with whatever ultimatum you feel is appropriate.

Tough love? I dunno. Rational and reasonable? Absolutely.

I will not pray for you, but will keep good thoughts for you.

[Thurisaz]

FiddlingAround, on 20 November 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

Really, am I being unreasonable here?

Fuck no!

The game you describe is exactly the one my dad tried to play on everyone. It drove my mom into alcoholism (which got her killed eventually) and nearly drove me insane.

There's only one safe (for you) way to deal with people like that, and it is "NOT AT ALL". Cut off the bitch's contact to all those who you love, right now. If it was just about you, I might have said you could attend a family meeting where bitch is also present, because an adult who knows the game for what it is can break the rules. Kids are unlikely to have that strength, however. You have to protect them from the poison.

[Shyone]

Thurisaz, on 21 November 2009 - 01:26 AM, said:

FiddlingAround, on 20 November 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

Really, am I being unreasonable here?

Fuck no!

The game you describe is exactly the one my dad tried to play on everyone. It drove my mom into alcoholism (which got her killed eventually) and nearly drove me insane.

There's only one safe (for you) way to deal with people like that, and it is "NOT AT ALL". Cut off the bitch's contact to all those who you love, right now. If it was just about you, I might have said you could attend a family meeting where bitch is also present, because an adult who knows the game for what it is can break the rules. Kids are unlikely to have that strength, however. You have to protect them from the poison.

This is all true. Is there any reason to want to be with the rest of the family despite the presence of the grandmother? Would it be worth it in any way?

Also, has an invitation been issued to the grandmother?

If there would be value to being with the rest of the family anyway, then that's one thing, but if the rest of the family sees each other regularly anyway, then perhaps making other arrangements for your family would be in order.

My wife and her step-father don't get along, and our family reunion became to intolerable for her to keep attending, so we don't anymore - and she made it clear why we don't go. I miss the reunions (even though it's her family), but I support my wife's decision.

[FiddlingAround]

Thanks everybody. Your support is invaluable here. Right now this is making me supremely tired, and inclined to just let my brain shut down, but I'm trying to pull it together, as this needs to be addressed soon.

Thurisaz hit the nail on the head saying that the kids change everything, both my teenage cousins and my considerably younger sisters. If it weren't for them, my mother and aunt could fling themselves back into the fire if that's what it takes to prove to themselves that it's not worth it. I could comfortably either stay away or go with the intention of putting the old bitch in her place. But it becomes entirely different when by this choice they are putting their kids in danger.

Also, if it weren't for the cousins and sisters, I would have absolutely no problem staying away in protest. But they would be extremely hurt and disappointed not to have me around for a holiday. I can't do that to them.

An invitation has been issued for Thanksgiving, but to the best of my knowledge she intends to spend that holiday with my uncle (he and my brother still talk to her, the fools). So I'm reasonably safe there. I just have to make damn sure that no similar invitation is issued for Christmas. Which means talking it out with my aunt.

And Shyone, I gave a lot of thought to your idea of preparing the kids and using it for a lesson in dealing with difficult people, but I think my sisters in particular aren't up to it yet, especially since I can virtually guarantee that her approach with them will be to play the role of the sweet, doting grandmother. That way, they'll think we're just picking on their poor, beloved grandma, and will be more malleable at the age when she starts really having fun messing with their minds.

And yes, I will be very, very clear to my aunt and my mother that I do not want this woman having contact with my sisters. I will be very, very clear about why.

[lunaticheathen]

Wow, the physical abuse on top of the mental abuse absolutely seals it. You are certainly being the ONLY reasonable person, as far as I can tell. Fuck that bitch! Seriously!
But, you can't tell the others what to do, and I wish you could get your siblings out of that situations. I suppose the best you can do is be with them in the fallout.

[francotiradora]

BPDFamily.org

I used to visit that site to cope with the fallout of a lunatic ex-boyfriend; however, I also remember their having a big section devoted to support for relatives of those with personality disorders. You might find it helpful.

This post has been edited by francotiradora: 23 November 2009 - 02:45 AM

[FiddlingAround]

To offer a brief update, I've brought my mother around. She's now talking about keeping the kids away from the normal Christmas gathering if my aunt insists upon inviting my grandmother. Still working on my aunt. I talked to her, she agreed with every likely problem I suggested, but so far still intends to go forward. She also feels picked on because I'm pushing this. Oh well. I've got some time to keep working on her.

Thanks for the website, Francotiradora. I'll have a look at it when it's not 1am. I should so be asleep right now...