[southjerseygirl36]

I believe in God and Jesus but I don't like the cultish protestant church where they judge others to hell. I like christians and nonchristians. I have no desire to make people a Christian but I want various kinds of friends. Would you befriend me if I did not push it on you. I'm a God beliver and I attend a Catholic church because its quiet and medititative. I am not catholic either, nor would I ever be a good Catholic. I think of myself as a Christina but a loner kind or a independent kind. I like all people. I just believe in God. I believe in morals and praying.

I like psychology and exercise.

Who here would befriend me in real life if say we met at toastmasters, or volleyball or a depression support group?

[qec]

I would probably, but then the fact that you are a religious believer means little to me as the vast majority of the human race is too.

[ClaraOlive]

When you say that you wouldn't push your religion on another person, just what do you mean by that?

If we met in another situation, got to know one another, and eventually you happened to mention something you did "with some friends from church" or something similar, there's no reason that should keep us from being friends. I have a few friends who are like that- I've picked up that they're Christians/church attenders from offhand things they've said, but they've never confronted me with their beliefs (nor have I pushed mine on them), and religion isn't part of our relationship.

OTOH, I have a few "friends" who claim that they're not pushy or judgmental, but talking about god/church/Christian living is such a big part of their life that I don't really care to listen to them for very long. I don't think that they're horrible people- they don't tell others that they're going to hell or hand out Chick tracts, but our priorities are just so different that it leaves us little common ground. They're the people whose Facebook status is always something about how god has blessed them. Their conversations are always something about Christianity because ALL their other activities center around church. But I feel the same way about people who have any obsession in life that I don't care about. I know people who I don't want to be close to because they only ever want to talk about their kids, or about a hobby we don't share, or about their job... so it's not a specifically anti-Christian thing.

[Snakefoot]

If you are a nice person, intelligent, a good conversationalist...what's not to like and not to befriend?

Strangely, when I was an xtian, were the roles reversed and I knew/learned you were an atheist, I would have not only shunned you but hated you.

Go figure.

[qadeshet]

Depends on what you mean by friends. When I left Christianity I left all my old Christian friends behind. We simply had very little in common any more. Why exactly would you want to hang around with non-Christians? To answer your question, casual friendship is all I have for Christians.

[Vixentrox]

If you started in with religious preaching or pressuring me to go to church, you can forget it. Otherwise I wouldn't have a problem.

[southjerseygirl36]

Okay I didn't explain it right. I want to go to Catholic churches to help my private faith. I don't want friends from any church, and I purposely go to a Catholic church so they won't bother me. I want friends from other groups. I do not like the church jargon that protestant christians use constantly. I realize that God has blessed them but there is something very annoying or prideful about it. It should be done more tastefully and reverently. I wouldn't have friends that were pushy christians.I have a private faith is all that enables me to respect others.

I do not want friends from any church The thing is that the protestants are nasty people with the gossip. I wouldn't mind christian friends from other groups, but they are going to hear it that I am not judging other people to hell and they will say you aren't a real christian and I will think that is quite snotty adn the friendship will end. Catholics, most of them, do not judge nonbelievers to hell adn that's how it should be. No one should be cursing people like that. I really really really hate how the protestants tend to be all really nice to your face then they are cutting up nonbelievers to hell. They are morally wrong to do that. I have washed my hands of them. I rather deal with normal good people, then people who are so arrogant they make me physically sick.

I believe in God, and the spirit world and I believe in morals and I want to keep trying to live my life that way. I go to a nonpressuring catholic church is all. I do not want to deal with any snide, superior, stupid people in the process. I am not newage really, and still believe in Jesus but I don't believe in Jesus in the way that I am "saved" by a prayer. Peace with God is something that each person has to find on their own in their own way. I have always thought it was obnoxious to push someone to say a prayer of salvation that didn't involve really any real repentance or their heart. Even so, the prayer doesn't count as much as the rest of your life counts, to be at peace. I dont find any peace in the Protestant "I am saved forever nah nah poo poo and better than my evil neighbors and co-workers" way of thinking. And I think these people have lost their common sense. They have cheapened a real God that does love us and each person's private faith. However anyone who wants to be atheist is free to be that way too of course. I know the spirit world is real though and I fear that more than people. The protestants cheapen spiritual life. So do the catholics but no one will bother you there. You aren't pushed into anything.

[Vixentrox]

Catholics can be just as bad, just as judgemental, just as pushy. The entire history of the Catholic faith has been one filled with power lust, control, misogyny, and atrocity. To think Catholics are different is in error.

[Multifarious Bird Lady]

southjerseygirl36, on 08 February 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

Who here would befriend me in real life if say we met at toastmasters, or volleyball or a depression support group?

I probably would. I have a number of friends similar to what you describe yourself to be.

southjerseygirl36, on 09 February 2010 - 03:10 AM, said:

The protestants cheapen spiritual life. So do the catholics but no one will bother you there. You aren't pushed into anything.

You are portraying all Protestants as one monolithic type of religion, and this isn't true. There's an extremely wide spectrum between different Protestant faiths, and it's unfair to paint them all with the same brush as you've done in your posts.

It's also completely bullshit that Catholics "aren't pushed into anything." Take one look at those who were denied communion for following their conscience to be pro-choice. The Church does indeed push, and they can be really nasty about it when they want to be.

[qec]

Vixentrox, on 09 February 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

Catholics can be just as bad, just as judgemental, just as pushy. The entire history of the Catholic faith has been one filled with power lust, control, misogyny, and atrocity. To think Catholics are different is in error.

Multifarious Bird Lady, on 09 February 2010 - 07:07 AM, said:

It's also completely bullshit that Catholics "aren't pushed into anything." Take one look at those who were denied communion for following their conscience to be pro-choice. The Church does indeed push, and they can be really nasty about it when they want to be.

I agree with both these sentiments. I also think it's better to stay away from the the RCC entirely if you can southjerseygirl. If you can't then make sure you stick around some seriously Liberal Catholics at a minimum. Once you start going up the "ladder" from liberal to trad in the RCC, you start losing your "soul" regarding the ability to dictate your own political reality as you see fit. If I where you I would find some other community thing like a hobby or something with people who shared it, and worship at home or something.

[Vigile]

southjerseygirl36, on 09 February 2010 - 03:10 AM, said:

I believe in God, and the spirit world and I believe in morals and I want to keep trying to live my life that way.

I don't believe in god or the spirit world, but I do believe it is important to be moral. Morality is one of my biggest issues with the church; including catholic.

As to your original question, you seem cool with me. Friends don't always have to be in agreement. I like friends who I can have friendly disagreements with. It's a good way to learn something.

If I am hearing you correctly, you don't buy into the catholic line on salvation, etc... but rather the ritual, et al appeals to your need for spirituality. Is that right? I'm not a spiritual person, but from my experience with others on this site it seems that some people naturally need spirituality while others don't. I don't understand it, but just because I don't understand something through empathy doesn't mean there isn't something to it; at least not on a biological basis.

I have lots of friends who are religious and of course my family is as well. It generally doesn't intervene with friendship as long as they don't wear it on their sleeve.

Quote

Peace with God is something that each person has to find on their own in their own way.

Why? What if they don't believe in god?

Quote

I have always thought it was obnoxious to push someone to say a prayer of salvation that didn't involve really any real repentance or their heart.

Do you believe we should all repent even if you don't want to push it on anyone? Why?

Anyway, my last two questions are just something your response triggered. Like I said, it doesn't need to interfere with friendship. I somewhat, (emphasis on 'somewhat') disagree with others who take a hard line against the catholic church. I personally hate the doctrine but my experience is that as you point out, in many cases it's devolved to the point where catholic believers aren't as obnoxious as protestants. There are of course many exceptions to this, but most catholics I know aren't uptight about things like sanctity, the hell doctrine, etc... The church itself is, but the adherents don't seem to be; especially in Europe or other places where it is more tradition than religion.

[florduh]

Quote

I believe in God and Jesus

Most people I know could probably say that. The world seems to be full of nominal Christians who don't really understand their Bible or the tenets of their claimed faith. Yet, they feel the need to identify with the dominant religion of the land.

Those people don't bother me, since they don't care what I think any more than I care what beliefs they hold, or why. We can hang out and pursue common interests and activities. Of course we'll never be really close, but we can be friends.

But I have to ask - given your belief in God and Jesus and having no intention to evangelize us, why are you here? Wouldn't you be happier hanging around other Christians as opposed to Ex-Christians?

[Shyone]

In my personal life, I have a Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy with friends with respect to religion.

We just don't discuss religion. Not much politics either.

[Ouroboros]

I'm with Shyone on this. I have both Christian and Catholic friends. I also know people of other beliefs and views, but if religion comes up, I tend to steer the topic away or even right-out say that religion is off topic between friends.

[florduh]

Isn't it a shame that people are so polarized it's not safe to even discuss religion or politics if we wish to remain friends. What's up with that? Are friends with whom you can only safely discuss the weather (except global warming) really worth having?

[Vigile]

florduh, on 09 February 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

Isn't it a shame that people are so polarized it's not safe to even discuss religion or politics if we wish to remain friends. What's up with that? Are friends with whom you can only safely discuss the weather (except global warming) really worth having?

It is a huge shame. Polarization seems to be the name of the game nowadays. I hate to keep bringing it up, but it just seems so relevant, you can talk about pretty much anything over here and you aren't going to ruffle any feathers. I just hate the polarization I've seen with my friends and family back home and even here on this board. Disagreement doesn't need to lead to broken relationships. It really is possible to be intellectually involved without breaking friendships over positions.

[wilyfem]

southjerseygirl36, on 08 February 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

I believe in God and Jesus but I don't like the cultish protestant church where they judge others to hell. I like christians and nonchristians. I have no desire to make people a Christian but I want various kinds of friends. Would you befriend me if I did not push it on you. I'm a God beliver and I attend a Catholic church because its quiet and medititative. I am not catholic either, nor would I ever be a good Catholic. I think of myself as a Christina but a loner kind or a independent kind. I like all people. I just believe in God. I believe in morals and praying.

I like psychology and exercise.

Who here would befriend me in real life if say we met at toastmasters, or volleyball or a depression support group?

The only problem is that I'd feel it was necessary to have my "filter" turned on around you. I never felt I could be my true self around other Christians even when I was one. I have a sailor's mouth and a dirty sense of humor. Now that I'm not a Christian, I bitch about religion a lot. If we were friends, I wouldn't feel it was possible to be 100% myself around you without offending you.

[woodsmoke]

I'm with Vigile. It may not have been your intent, but your posts show a bit of projection which someone who doesn't share your values (e.g. me) might be put off by.

That said, I also agree that it's not really that important. Two of my best friends are self-identifying Christians, but our friendship has nothing to do with our respective beliefs. We enjoy each others' company and have far too much in common to let relatively insignificant details like that get in the way.

[Vomit Comet]

Vigile, on 09 February 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

It is a huge shame. Polarization seems to be the name of the game nowadays. I hate to keep bringing it up, but it just seems so relevant, you can talk about pretty much anything over here and you aren't going to ruffle any feathers. I just hate the polarization I've seen with my friends and family back home and even here on this board. Disagreement doesn't need to lead to broken relationships. It really is possible to be intellectually involved without breaking friendships over positions.

Well, there was the whole Civil War thing, so it's nothing new. However, it's been said that since Reagan it's become more pronounced than ever. In the 1960s there were deep rifts over "American values" and culture and whatnot, but the difference was that in the 1960s we still had that robust post-war American economy. The game changed in the mid 1970s, and then came Reagan. Polarization is a way of life now, thanks to Reagan and all who came after him, and as a backdrop we have our fragmented outsourced post-industrial perpetual-decline disappearing-middle speculative risk economy.

[Snakefoot]

Vomit Comet, on 09 February 2010 - 01:06 PM, said:

Vigile, on 09 February 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

It is a huge shame. Polarization seems to be the name of the game nowadays. I hate to keep bringing it up, but it just seems so relevant, you can talk about pretty much anything over here and you aren't going to ruffle any feathers. I just hate the polarization I've seen with my friends and family back home and even here on this board. Disagreement doesn't need to lead to broken relationships. It really is possible to be intellectually involved without breaking friendships over positions.

Well, there was the whole Civil War thing, so it's nothing new. However, it's been said that since Reagan it's become more pronounced than ever. In the 1960s there were deep rifts over "American values" and culture and whatnot, but the difference was that in the 1960s we still had that robust post-war American economy. The game changed in the mid 1970s, and then came Reagan. Polarization is a way of life now, thanks to Reagan and all who came after him, and as a backdrop we have our fragmented outsourced post-industrial perpetual-decline disappearing-middle speculative risk economy.

It always astonishes me that no matter what comes up, somebody always finds a way to blame Reagan or Bush. Neither man created "polarization," they were simply representatives of one faction. Why doesn't anyone ever blame Clinton, Carter, or even Ted Kennedy, the representatives of another faction?