Really A Delusion?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

While largely the same as the topic started by Kathlene, it's not the same, as its a different question entirely. Instead of asking if their beliefs are delusional, a strong belief in something based in reality, or something real (as was that question), I've got a slightly different take on what seems to be happening.

 

I've watched a quite a bit of Dawkins, and alot, a real lot of his religion discussions.

 

In High School, I took psychology as a side course. Most christians I've talked to (all of those that had some sense of reality), and all the people I find on debates, and all of the people Dawkins talked to with regard to religion (well... sort of, just a few didn't), displayed some things that were interesting:

 

they were:

- Extremely defensive, as well as very intimidated by Dawkins direct, honest, straight forward, not even close to the realm of hostile, questions.

- Wanted to attack his position, often with invalid arguements, often assuming he had some alterior motives

- Often when they realized they couldn't back up their beliefs, defaulted to logical fallacies, as well as said things like:

* It gives me comfort

* It helps me, why would you take it away from me?

* And the like

 

And often they don't even want to be questioned and cringe at the idea.

 

All of these are characteristic of people who are in denial. I seriously am beginning to think that they are all in denial, but why?

 

They probably realize that their views are wrong, and feel ashamed that they held onto them for so long? Well I don't know if they're all that far along. though I know I felt that way before I left paganism, but that's not exactly where I'm getting at, but its possible.

 

I think that it's got to do with how they view the world with a spiritual realm and without one. That mixed into the emotional tie they feel to what is now being showed to them to not be real.

 

As we see with the carbon dating, they're against it when it comes to fossils, but for it if they think they've found Noah's ark. It's denial. It just doesn't seem to be a delusion, it seems that many are just too afraid of the truth that they'll bury their head in the sand to hide from it. So they choose to be in denial, as the thought brings them comfort.

[florduh]

I agree that denial plays a major role. Just don't be surprised if you run into an argument as to what "denial" really means.

[par4dcourse]

I've heard xians spout the most unbelieveable, convoluted, complicated mish-mash of bible stories with an air of conviction and a glaze in their eyes. I vote delusion.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I agree that denial plays a major role. Just don't be surprised if you run into an argument as to what "denial" really means.

I was expecting that or them to say how we are in denial of god.

 

I've heard xians spout the most unbelieveable, convoluted, complicated mish-mash of bible stories with an air of conviction and a glaze in their eyes. I vote delusion.

Yes, and those ones who are so confident, and aren't intimidated, but instead just surreal in their belief, they are delusional.

 

Though look at Haggard:

 

Towards the end he interviews Dawkins, he just screams "I'm scared, please stop intimidating me" in the most defensive way. He's clearly in denial, just like he is about homosexuality. clearly in denial.

 

You can just tell.

[Guest Valk0010]

and another to your list, rage

[oddbird1963]

Haggard is a creepy guy - - so fake. Like there is nothing behind those eyes. He's like a talking automaton dribbling out Josh McDowell and Lee Stroble apologetic lines.

 

What is this hold that people like him have over others? When I talk hardly anybody wants to listen. A guy like Haggard is a creep - but people hang on his every word (at least they did, I don't know what is status is now).

 

But, all he did was call Dawkins arrogant. A Christian making an ad hominem. Pretty typical. He's no intellectual heavyweight, that's for sure!

[Franko47]

Add a bit of "egotism" to the mix.

 

 

You know, when the most powerful being in the Universe, omnipotent creator-of-all actually acknowledges your existence with some little "miracle", or imagined form of "feedback" (usually through feelings) it can be a tremendous boost to many people's fragile ego.

 

What's interesting, is the very people who claim they have received "petty" miracles from God are usually angry when asked how they feel about other people being ignored, left to die, suffer, or go without justice (who may have also prayed faithfully) yet God is granting you "petty" little wishes concerning health, finance, even a new car/truck.

 

This is where a lot of cognitive dissonance is noticeable. You'll get the shrug, and the usual line about "who can understand the methods of God", and "God's plan is beyond our understanding" and so on.

 

The amount of rationalizing when confronted with just the most basic questions is all too telling. I'm disappointed sometimes by the lack of empathy sometimes by Christians who feel "privileged" to have a "relationship" with their god. The starving kids in Africa, massive injustices going on....there's always this sense that some how, some way, "they" just have not been "favored" as much as one's self....reason unknown.

 

I find that really pathetic. And keep pressing the issue and watch them go ballistic.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Haggard is a creepy guy - - so fake. Like there is nothing behind those eyes. He's like a talking automaton dribbling out Josh McDowell and Lee Stroble apologetic lines.

 

What is this hold that people like him have over others? When I talk hardly anybody wants to listen. A guy like Haggard is a creep - but people hang on his every word (at least they did, I don't know what is status is now).

 

But, all he did was call Dawkins arrogant. A Christian making an ad hominem. Pretty typical. He's no intellectual heavyweight, that's for sure!

Think about why he was being that way to Dawkins, and why he talks the way he did. It's classic signs of someone who knows they are wrong, and doesn't want to accept it. The guy's had a downhill struggle with faith, so it makes his symptoms a bit more obvious than most, and his struggle ain't belief as much as it is his sexual orientation. Now his faith is being questioned?

 

Frank, I agree.

[Thurisaz]

I say the root of all that bullshit is that morontheists don't care for truth but only for obedience. Obedience to those who told them "You will believe in this or else!". They may (consciously or subconsciously) understand that they believe in crap but to admit it would mean they need to rebel against something/someone they've been told to consider an authority to follow, therefore they engage in crimestop and doublethink to fool themselves into "There's no reason for disobedience!".

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

True. That's why they are a menace to liberty, and a constant threat. While I do agree with puttting freedom of religion in the constitution, it was a start. Compared to what came prior anyway. Though it'd be better if we just had freedom from religion. Or just put it in spanish, it would mean the same thing as the archaic "of", it would encompass both "from" and "of".