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  1. 12 points
    Hi, all! Sorry if this isn't the best place to post this topic. Mods, feel free to move it. I promise I'll get around to an ex-timony, when it feels right. As for now, I just wanted to let everyone know that things are going pretty decent between Mr. ag_NO_stic and I regarding our faith differences. He is "unsure" to the point that he's not actively calling himself a Christian. Now he will still resist me on many points, but I have been REALLY making myself keep my opinions and rants to myself, not challenging him on belief stuff. When it does occasionally come up, I've been practicing and forcing self-discipline and not reacting out of emotion. This has done wonders! I think he also sees how content I am, as I've calmed with time, and how my new "beliefs" are not going anywhere. It helped in my case that he has never really been "up to fundamentalist" standards with his faith, his parents did NOT raise him like me so he doesn't have some of the wounds.....he doesn't understand some of my bitterness. But things are looking up as of now, fingers crossed! I just wanted to post this for those who know what's been going on with me and the husband, as well as give some encouragement to those with believing spouses. Show them the "fruits of the spirit" which ironically is just coming from yourself because you are in control of your actions. A calm and rational demeanor paired with facts/logic and not seeking out an argument all the time really has helped over time. He has also had some time to adjust to the changes and can see that I am still me, without being a pious asshole. I even got him to listen to little bit of Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens and he chuckled a couple times, so it can't be long now! Cheers!
  2. 8 points
    What you really want, although you may not realize it right now, is to be deprogrammed. You have been deeply indoctrinated (brainwashed) into believing the various Christian dgma's are literally true & historically accurate. They are not. The authors of the Bile are unknown (nobody named Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John wrote one single word of the Bible, those names were added to anonymous manuscripts in the fourth century as a way of identifying them.) Present day Bibles are forgeries that have been edited, redacted, & parts completely rewritten to make it say what some of the church fathers wanted it to say. I would recommend the section on this site called General Theological issues as a good place to get information about the Bible. I would also recommend Dr. Bart Ehrman as a good scholar to read. You can find his books on Amazon & they come in Kindle versions. I notice you listed The Church of Christ as one of the places you attended. I was an Elder in the c of c when I came to the realization that the Bible contained endless contradictions & inconsistences. I also accepted the fact some of the stuff in the Bible just isn't believable because it's impossible. Last but not least, welcome aboard. I know you will find the help you are seeking here.
  3. 7 points
    A blazing place! The heat astounds an unsaved wretch like me! JK I'm just down in the ground; Look up thanatology. ’Twas church that taught my heart to fear, but sense my fears relieved; How pious does that place appear Now that I don't believe. The horde has promised misery, His Word their hope obscures; Until we worship sanity, Deceit the church assures. If we’re still here in ten thousand years, Not yet scorched by the sun, We’ve no less cause to sing God’s praise Than when we’d first begun.
  4. 7 points
    Some prisoners get released from jail and soon commit another crime just so they can return to the controlled life behind bars they got used to. The spirit of independence and self reliance has been extinguished. Same thing.
  5. 7 points
    Kind of like being in an abusive relationship, except worse. One will keep telling themselves that it will be different.
  6. 7 points
    I have no idea if the younger generation feels entitled or not, but I would love to be young again just to see if I'd feel entitled!
  7. 7 points
    Hello Everyone, I'm still a little bit shocked that I'm on a site such as this and what that now means for the rest of my life. See, I'm 31 now and have been struggling with my faith throughout my entire life, but most notably since I turned 29 did I begin to have serious thoughts that I may be becoming atheist. I was raised in a very conflicted and confused home that was quick to thrust the charismatic version of God down my throat at a young age. The interesting thing is my parents never stayed with one denomination for too long and for what ever reasons they had at the time I got the benefit of being taught by baptist, southern baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ etc.. Each new iteration of the faith chipped away at what I was initially taught and left me with a lot of questions. It was probably when I was about 10 or so that I noticed that some of the stories I was taught in Sunday school were changed by what was actually in the Bible. Small things like the fact that David cut of Goliath's head and so on. My parents told me that most kids aren't ready to handle certain details of the stories and even as a young boy that never made sense. Why would God's perfect word not be fit for all? As I grew older I started to get a great fervor for God and finding his mission for my life. I would go to my mother nightly who would pray over me and speak prophecy after prophecy about who I was to become. She told me that I would I would be a light unto the world and that God himself had spoken to her before she knew I was to be and told her to name me Joshua for this very reason. I was always so excited to think that God had a special plan for me. Some of the excitement was truly because I wanted to serve God, but a lot of it was because of my own ego and that I liked the idea of being more important than everyone else. So, this continued to go on over time and my mother would tell me stories about how God has protected me while I was growing up. That he stopped my biological mother (I'm adopted) from aborting me and that he's saved me from car accidents as a child. Going as far as to tell me that an entire semi truck went through our car when I was a baby. As though it was only a projection of light and not comprised of matter. This only stoked this fire that I had for this mission that I was chosen for. Desperate to hear God's voice myself I asked my mother and other authority figures how it can be done and I was met with the same answer from everyone. God speaks in a small voice and if I'm quiet enough I can hear it. This lead to me spending hours away in my room at night in silence or with sermons playing on my old tape player. Never did I ever hear a word. Yet I continued to search. Now, while I had what I thought were positive experiences with the faith (prophecy, life plan) I had also had terrible problems that plagued me constantly. One of the denominations taught that God doesn't speak at all and even more so, they taught that there was no such thing as once saved always saved. This doctrine which I had based my entire salvation on was now being torn a part (effectively) by this new teaching. After being exposed to it for only a short time it scarred me terribly. I had the worst anxiety of my life starting from that moment all the way to when I turned 29 or so. It was an agony that I couldn't describe and later had to be treated with anxiety medications. This fear and the fact that there were so many conflicting doctrines pushed me to study more. I was still obsessed, but for new reasons. I figured I need to find out what all those silly atheists are upset about, so I can help them. This lead me to all sorts of places on YouTube like AronRa and so on. Needless to say that the debunking of Noah's flood and the harsh slave loving blood lust nature of the Old Testament God blew me away. How had I missed this before? One of the events that lead to me finally starting to give up on faith had to due with this new King James Only Church I started attending a few years ago. I told the pastor how trouble I was and that the more I studied the worse it got. His answer still makes me shake my head in disbelief. He said if reading those things made me doubt my faith that I should simply stop reading them or asking questions (what? Why would God want this?). Unfortunately, it was by that time that I realized that there was no special plan for my life and lost it. There was suicide attempt with police that thankfully didn't lead to my arrest, but did thankfully lead to my hospitalization where I learned that my anxiety and delusions of grander and a lot of other symptoms were related to me being undiagnosed bipolar 1. I know that some people even here may not believe in certain mental conditions, but when they finally put me on lithium (a drug mainly used for Bipolar) my life changed. I lost most of my anxiety about hell and my religious obsession started to fade. So, here I am today. I'm learning more and more about science and evolution due to the isolating nature of my christian home school education. I'm constantly thirsty for knowledge, but I still suffer from time to time with the idea that God is real and that he is still calling to me. I do still feel worried about hell, but instead of being a bone crushing anxiety it's now been reduced to a small feeling in the back of my mind. I do, however, have four kids and am married to a woman who is still christian. While my initial turn into atheism was a big rock in the boat, she is still committed to me. That's another whole can of worms, but you get the idea. I'm here to make friends and learn anything from anyone who willing to teach me something that is demonstrable and true lol. One final thought comes to mind and it's a verse from the new testament about those who seek God. There is a passage in Jeremiah that states that you will seek me and find me if you look with your whole heart. I still think about his today, because never have I ever met anyone who searches for truth like the Atheist community and by people like myself. Yet, we find nothing...Anyway, a big thank you to all who read my story. I appreciate it.
  8. 7 points
    Welcome! Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Every one of us on this site can relate to some of the points you made in your post. You are here with people who have gone through exactly what you are going through. Hang in there. It takes time to deprogram your brain from all the brainwashing that was done to you. You're home with us! Keep reading - keep posting. Someone is always here to help you. I personally wouldn't have made it without Ex-c. I actually thought I was the only one who had the nerve to doubt the christian god. So glad you found us!
  9. 7 points
    Does life continue after death, I truly do not know..... But what I do believe, with complete conviction, any God who would create us, make us faulty in His eyes and then punish us forever for being how He made us is a very sick being indeed.
  10. 7 points
    Humor is a release valve. Dark humor especially is a tool for emotionally dealing with horrific things. Cops, firefighters, medical personnel, military people ... use dark humor to deal with extremely negative reality. Others use drugs, alcohol and suicide.
  11. 6 points
    It's really hard to pick the dumbest belief set once you have looked into several popular religions. What these diverse belief systems have in common is that they are all just made up by crazy and/or manipulative, power hungry humans.
  12. 6 points
    First, you should consider identifying how, and to what extent, the religious indoctrination, whatever flavor it may be, has affected you or still affects you. Inventory those influences and effects in writing so you can refer to them later. Second, develop a strategy to counteract that written list of influences and effects. For example, study the history of Christianity, from adult, rational, dispassionate and secular sources. Learn to distinguish between reality and Christian apologetics. Study science, logic and rational thinking. Listen to music. Third, deal with the codependency you have developed with other humans who are infected with the same Christian God Virus that you are infected with. Strategies include finding new acquaintances, avoiding them, telling them to fuck off and spending your time with other things. Fourth, deal with any emotional and mental illnesses you may have by seeking help from secular mental health professionals. Last, be patient. It takes time to shake the nonsense and heal.
  13. 6 points
    Something similar happened with my oldest grandson who is now 18. Looking back, in the long run, I think the incident probably affected me worse than it did him. When GS was around 4, he was sitting at the kitchen table eating lunch and suddenly burst into tears. I finally got it out of him that he was sad because I, his most favorite grandparent, would be going to hell. I was completely caught off guard. I was so upset that anyone could tell GS something like that. Actually, I was livid. But like your family, my SIL is more fundy than my daughter, so I felt like I had to be very careful on how I addressed the situation. It was no secret that I did not attend church, but at that point, I had not said anything to GS about not believing in any gods. They had started going to a super wacky church, so I (correctly) assumed that was the source of the problem, reinforced by their nightly prayers for their family, especially the unbelievers--me. I asked him if he thought God knew what was in a person's heart. He said yes. I asked him if he thought I was a bad person. No. So I told him he had no reason to worry because surely if he knew my heart was good, so would God. He cheered up, the matter has never come back up and we're still very close. In fact, when I picked him up from his christian pre-school shortly after the incident, the teacher told me that GS really had some deep thoughts for a kid his age. "Too deep", she said, "And he asks too many questions." Turns out that when being taught that God made everything, he asked "Who made God?" "Good for him," I said. I was proud! Kids know who genuinely love them, so I'd bet your granddaughter will get over this and everything will turn out fine. You'll be her living example of how people can be good without god.
  14. 6 points
    I don't have any advice, but I do have a story. I was essentially in the shoes of your grand kids with my own grandfather. He also didn't believe and was at best an agnostic who hated the church. My grandmother went to church and raised my father in it, but his dad just stayed home and was mostly quiet about it other than making a few snide comments from time to time. I remember writing him a letter when I was a young teen pleading with him to adopt the faith, also worried he was going to hell. Like you, he kept things to himself and was just a good grand dad. After I grew up and ended up an atheist, I apologized to him for writing him that letter. He just laughed it off. I don't know if there are any morals for you here other than just hang tight. Not much you can, or probably should do. Life will do with your grand kids what it does. All you can do is be you.
  15. 6 points
    Some of you guys are real obsessed with the genitals of people you're never going to fuck :/
  16. 6 points
    You might be an ex-christian if, instead of quoting John 3:16 and other hole-y scriptures, you quote logical fallacies...... #strawman #appealtoauthority #notruescotsman xD
  17. 5 points
  18. 5 points
    Carried over from Rants & Replies Christians will argue that the right path is obedience to god's law as laid out in the bible. And when failing (which everyone does and which apparently sanctifies if rightfully repented of), they are to fall back on the ideas that there is vicarious justification and redemption through Christ. It is a mindlessly frustrating cycle. What are your thoughts on this, Geezer? The first step, I believe, is to acknowledge that the Bible is literature not history. It does not reflect an accurate historical record of anything. This is confirmed by its literary genre. It is extremely important to recognize the distinction between literature and historical record keeping. All the Biblical authors are anonymous. Some historians have theories about the authorship of some writings, but those are just theories. Whoever the authors were they were clearly writing stories not historical records of events or people. That clearly indicates the Bible is not an instruction manual it’s a collection of fictional stories and characters. People who do not understand that are already heading down the wrong path. A major reason for the New Testaments confusing and contradictive instructions, regarding how a person becomes saved and how they retain their saved status, is because the authors of the NT books are promoting three different theologies. The Gospel writer(s) are promoting Orthodox Judaism. Matthew 24:35, Luke 21:33, 1 John 2:17. Basically these scriptures are saying two things: (1) For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (2) The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever. The author had Jesus saying the Law would remain forever and those that follow the law will please God. The Apostle Paul (or whoever was writing in Paul’s name) claims that God gave him a new theology as found in Ephesians 2-8-22 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them 11Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit. The Epistles are offering a new theology. And this theology is Gnostic. Galatians 2:19 For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law--I stopped trying to meet all its requirements--so that I might live for God. Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. Colossians 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. Paul claims the law was fulfilled on the cross and believers are now under grace not law. Paul is claiming Judaism has been replaced with Gnostic theology that is based on faith and grace not adherence to the law. Paul and Jesus are clearly not on the same theological page. The third theology that is found in the New Testament is Orthodoxy later to be known as Catholicism. Those identified as radical religious historians take the position that both Jesus and Paul are literary characters and that neither of them were real historical people. This makes sense because it is recognized by the scholarly community in general that the Gospels and Epistles are stores and not records of any historical events. The Orthodox (Catholic) favors a mixture of law, obedience to the law, and grace. They reject the idea of faith only as proposed by Paul. The Orthodox and Gnostics became bitter enemies with each group fighting for supremacy in this new evolving Christian faith. Scholars that accept the premise that Paul was only a literary figure theorize that Simon Magus and Marcion of Sinope were the actual authors of Paul’s generally recognized six authentic epistles. Paul’s epistles were miraculously “discovered” in the early part of the second century by Marcion. Marcion’s Gnostic version of Christianity was wildly popular in the second century and his churches greatly outnumbered the Orthodox churches. This imbalance did not change until the Catholic Church officially excommunicated Marcion and labeled him a heretic. Only after Marcion was declared a heretic and Constantine chose Catholicism as the official religion of the Roman Empire did the third form of Christianity (Catholicism) take hold and prosper. The Catholic Church recognized Peter not Paul as the primary Apostle of Christ. Paul was relegated to an insignificant position in the Catholic Church due to his Gnostic teaching. Interestingly enough that all changed with Martin Luther and the reformation movement in the 16th century. The Protestant’s embraced Paul and his Gnostic teaching and reestablished salvation by faith alone through grace. Paul, Marcion, & Simon Magus Gnostic religion was revived and has prospered in Protestant Churches throughout the world since then until today. The New Testament reflects these three forms of theology that appear in the Gospels and Epistles. The mixture of Gnostic and Catholic teaching in the NT is theorized by some scholars to reflect the writings and editing of Polycarp who was a 2nd-century Christian bishop of Smyrna and a strong Catholic who bitterly opposed Marcion and Gnostic teaching. Some scholars believe Polycarp wrote the Pastoral Letters to refute and challenge Pauline teaching. Polycarp is the assumed author of other writings in the NT that challenge Pauline theology. The mixture of Judaism, Gnostic, and Catholic theology throughout the NT accounts for the contradictive and confusing teaching on salvation. Baptism an essential element in the Protestant faith comes from the Jewish tradition of Mikvah, a ceremonial cleansing in water by immersion. Again, another theologies traditions are incorporated into Christian theology. And in addition to all the things I’ve listed, scholars acknowledge the Bible both OT and NT has been edited, redacted, changed, and sections completely rewritten multiple times. Additionally there are no original copies of any of the books of the Bible so there is no way to know how or in what ways the Bible has been changed. That is why scholars like Dr. Bart Ehrman say present day Bible are forgeries. Again, it is wise to remember the Bible is a collection of fictional stories with fictional characters. It is not a record of historical events or people and that fact alone should nullify any idea or belief that the Bible is in any way Divine or Sacred.
  19. 5 points
    Look, I'm already going to hell. Just add it to the list.
  20. 5 points
    I modified the original, of course, (some of the lines are the original or very close to it) but yes I "wrote it" using rhymezone.com and a thesaurus lol.
  21. 5 points
    Bear in mind that many renounce Christianity simply because they have a beef with a pastor, congregation or the bad behavior of some of their fellow Christians. Those who study the Bible, church history, science and ancient history are the ones who eventually see behind the curtain, and they can't just decide to believe something they have proven to be false. WHY you leave has much to do with if you can ever go back.
  22. 5 points
    I think it is evidence of just how powerful & effective religious indoctrination is. Overcoming & rejecting that indoctrination is often easier said than done. It seems to me, for some people anyway, the fear of hell is greater than logic, reason, evidence, & the desire to be free from religious legalism. And yet there are those who still claim Christianity isn't a cult.
  23. 5 points
    Female here....you noticeably left out "Functioning DICK" which I have sincere interest in.
  24. 5 points
    In this country those over 65 actually ARE entitled to certain things; Medicare and Social Security. Republicans seem hell bent on stealing from the funds we contributed to all our working life. It's our money, always was, and we were required to contribute at every paycheck. Now our retirement is a political football with constant threats of bankrupting the funds. Still, there are some who consider our earned benefits as some kind of handout that can be cut from the government's budget so they can build walls and bloat their military even more. As I see it, my parents' generation worked for everything they had and there were few social programs as a safety net. The economy has changed since Reagan started the big push to funnel more money to the rich (creates jobs, you know!) and the standard of living is now much lower for the middle class. My parents could afford, without a college education between them, a house, car, vacations, insurance, savings account and money for their kids' education. Just try that today on a single non-professional's income. The young people I'm familiar with seem unopposed to working for what they need, it's just harder than it has to be.
  25. 5 points
    I wouldn't begin to make a claim as to what the truth is here. There's not enough evidence available and we don't have access to it to make that determination. But I sure as shit don't believe what they're telling us here. No way, no how. If someone wants to believe the official version (which keeps changing and which makes no sense) the burden of proof is on them IMO given the track record of our media (you know, those guys who told us consistently and with a straight face for over 3 years that Syria was a spontaneous uprising and a civil war when it was in fact a western backed invasion, those guys who told us kind of the same thing about Ukraine, those guys who don't tell us our government is invading Africa in a new colonial push to exploit her resources, those guys who don't tell us what our senators and congressmen are really doing and who refocus our attentions on silly sex scandals and the like -- I'm sure they are being straight up with us here; what do they have to hide here, amiright?). I trust my bullshit detector. It went off during the run up to the Iraq war, to the Kosovo war before that, to various claims over the course of the WoT, and more recently to the laughable hysteria over Russia hacking the election. I don't care if Alex Jones is also calling bullshit. He's a red herring and a convenient pin cushion for those who want to be intellectually lazy and lump everyone outside the status quo into one nutty group.
  26. 5 points
    I understand how you feel, as I felt much the same way when I first started my deconversion. Changing who you are after such a long time is a difficult process and learning to think and be different is going to take time. Just keep working through your thoughts and feelings and know that it will get better over time. Don't hesitate to go meet with a counselor (non-christian) and address your depression and also to process your deconversion. Isolation and withdrawal is the strength for depression and as much as it can be difficult to be open when you're feeling that way, you need to reach out and get it off your chest and out of your head. Come here if you have to, vent or journal or go to the chatroom. We will listen. We understand. One thing I would like to point out regarding this, is that when you prayed and had the mindset that someone was watching over you, you did and there was. It was you. Nothing has changed in that regard other than the fact that you now understand that it isn't some entity in another dimension, it was simply you expressing how you felt about life and thinking that some cosmic being heard you and cared about you doesn't change that. But just the act of sharing your feelings out loud in a prayer was in itself, cathartic and freeing. And guess what? You can still do that. Talk to yourself in quiet meditation. share how you feel about things in the quiet of the morning or in your "prayer" closet. Its perfectly ok to do that. There is no magic formula to deconverting. You can do it however it works best for you. I still "pray" to myself, much like i did when I was a believer, but I now understand that I am simply being honest with myself rather than petitioning god. I still struggle with these feelings too. But, you be who you want to be. You can be a cultural Christian and follow their general moral codes if you want. That is perfectly ok. You have been taught an extreme view of the non-christian world. But the reality is much less crazy than they led you to believe. Truthfully, very few people really care about how you live your life, as long as you respect their right to live theirs. Do what is the most comfortable to you. I think that we often think that when people make a change, that it has to be an all or none proposition. Christians think that if you're not a believer that you eat babies and go to orgies every day. But that isn't true. Being an unbeliever really just means you stop going to church and you stop being influenced by a bunch of rules and regulations set about by people who lived in a very different time than we do now, and those rules really don't apply anymore. As much as believers want that to be the case, I think that deep down, they know this. Bottom line: there are no expectations about leaving the faith you once held. Go at your own pace. Do what you feel works best for you. Its much easier to make small changes than to make wholesale changes. But also remember that if you want to go out and have sex or watch porn or be a "sinner", its ok to do so. Always get consent, and be respectful of others. You only get one trip on this rock. Make it worthwhile. Good luck
  27. 5 points
    Welcome to the forum, @theyownyou33, And welcome to the Unequally Yoked Club! Glad to year that the fear of hell has been demoted to TinyLittleThought and relegated to the back of your mind. That's usually a toughie for folks here. " never have I ever met anyone who searches for truth like the Atheist community " My feeling too. Yes there are folks who do, and have, researched in earnest and wound up embracing the faith but I am under the impression that they are in the minority. If I am wrong about that statistic folks here will correct me. " Some of the excitement was truly because I wanted to serve God, but a lot of it was because of my own ego and that I liked the idea of being more important than everyone else " Owning that one says a lot about your character. I commend you. If I could just get Mrs. MOHO to own that one we'd be far better off. " I'm here to make friends and learn anything from anyone who willing to teach me something that is demonstrable and true lol. " You're in the right place for those things for sure. The friend part I can do but, for the rest, I'd defer to the smart folks that post here. - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)
  28. 5 points
    Right I'm going to offer my own thoughts on this. I think it's important not to 'give up' because someone's views on a topic are different than your own. Quite the opposite in fact. It's a chance to engage with others of differing views and prevents us getting stuck in a comfortable echo chamber where we all agree with each other. I actually enjoy and value the likes of fwee and truescotsman as they both make me think carefully about the subject matter. I do not think either of them is 100% correct nor do I think either is 100% wrong. We do not live in a dichotomy world. I understand, or at least try to understand, where each person is coming from and I find I agree on many things and I also alter my views on topics as the posters give me cause to reevaluate what I think. Regarding joking at others expense. That's what jokes are essentially. We have no issue completely taking the Mickey out of religion and telling jokes that many religious people find utterly offensive. Do I give a shit about their offense? No. I agree that some jokes might be considered distasteful but if we banned jokes on that basis then humor would disappear overnight and the world would be worse off for it. So don't see topics that upset you as something to ignore or shy away from but as something to make you think and engage with.
  29. 5 points
    But in answer to the OP question, I think feminism labeling normal male behavior as "socially constructed," and "toxic masculinity" and "microaggressions" and "checking male privilege" has a lot to do with it. Men have been shamed into behaving in a more "stereotypically effeminate" way and it's a cryin shame.
  30. 5 points
    Maybe we're just hearing about it more but it seems we have an epidemic of people with social dysfunction. Social misfits of all varieties are everywhere these days. I must wonder if it doesn't have something to do with growing up without normal interpersonal relationships with real people face to face. A large portion of our communication with each other relies on things other than just our words; facial expression, body language and tonality are crucial. Reliance on texting would therefore inhibit and distort communications with other human beings.
  31. 4 points
  32. 4 points
    I actually watched all the videos in that bunch. I think because of the strong Christian influence in this country and especially the South, men and woman don't discuss all the aspects of sex such a favorite positions, oral, anal, what each partner likes and doesn't like, foreplay, grooming etc. Christianity has had such a negative influence on sex that I think way too many people are too embarrassed to have an adult conversation about their sexual needs and desires with their partner. I noticed in one of the videos that several woman said they liked rough sex. I don't think the average guy would think about asking his partner if she wanted rough sex and if he did he might not know exactly what she wants him to do even after she tells him. I think he might fear that he could be arrested. Maybe, even hopefully, the younger generation is more open to discuss their sexual needs and desires with their partner than my generation was. When I was growing up I never even heard the word sex in my home and my father was an atheists. Sex was a taboo subject back then. It simply wasn't discussed in mixed company. Sex was thought to be sinful, dirty, and vulgar except within marriage. Sex was taboo, vulgar, and disgusting until marriage and then it magically became something wonderful and beautiful. Yeah, well, I'm certain it didn't work that way for millions of couples. And even after marriage everyone knew Jesus was watching you having sex and listening to what you were saying. Lights out, missionary position, under the sheets, no nasty words or weird positions allowed because Jesus is taking notes and everyone knew those kind of things would be brought up again at the final judgement. And that kind of stuff could get you a one way ticket straight to hell. I think Jesus permits newly weds to have sex up to three times a week, but that diminishes over time until older married couples with grown children are only permitted to have sex once or twice a year-and no funny business allowed. At that age you don't want to trade your chance of going to heaven for a quick orgasms because that might upset Jesus. It would be sad, at that stage of your life, to see Jesus tearing up your ticket to heaven and throwing it in the trash just because you exceeded your orgasm limit.
  33. 4 points
  34. 4 points
    I agree. That is why I tell people that have recently left their faith there is a lot more to de-converting than just walking out the door. You need to know the theological reasons that you want out & that will require study & research. People that don't have a theological reason for leaving are likely to end up returning to Christianity. They may try a different more liberal version of Christianity but many will still go back. And then there is the reality that some people just need a God in their life. I suppose I was fortunate. I eventually saw all the problems with the Bible & decided to find out why. That is when I began to research to origins & evolution of both the Bible & Christianity. So I did the research first & then I left & I've never had a desire to return. I've acknowledged I attend a Methodist Church with my wife, just to keep her company. That experience just strengthens my decision to reject Christianity. In my head I'm saying No, No, No that is not true or that is a pathetic interpretation of that particular scripture. I tend to critique the teachers & Preachers & give them a grade which is usually an F. It almost amazes me just how ill informed Bible School teachers really are. Fortunately Methodist preachers don't preach like fundamentalists preachers do. The don't preach on sin, punishment, damnation, & hell. Their sermons are focused more on being a good person & helping others & I can tolerate that.
  35. 4 points
    Do atheists want to kill xians? I know that atheists don't tend to care for the xian religion, and would like to see it gone, but I don't think that means actively killing xians. I can't say I've seen any atheists advocating for this. I don't doubt there probably are some but since we're kind of like a herd of cats it's hard to say this is an atheist thing or a lunatic thing (I'm thinking the latter). I'd say I'd check the atheist handbook but no one wrote one and I wouldn't care if they did. Maybe xians are projecting since they do have a thing about killing non-believers in their book? I imagine if you're supposed to kill non-believers you have to believe non-believers want to kill you? Especially when you have John's fan-fic war about it. ETA: The more I'm reading about this the more it looks like it was about on-going domestic abuse than anything. This guy was abusive and targeted this place as an extension of that not a general hatred of xians. Anyone here that is afraid of how this narrative is being spun by certain xians should remind them of the real issue of domestic violence and not let them turn it into atheists versus xians. mwc
  36. 4 points
    I'm sad for a lot of them too. Most don't seem to take it to heart and it's like a social club for them, but for those who take it seriously, there is a serious amount of Stockholm Syndrome going on. The religion enslaves one.
  37. 4 points
    As you all know I had a relapse of my own in the Summer of '15. I was desperate to mitigate the incredible tension in the air on the home front and so visited the pastor of Mrs. MOHO's church and was exposed to the god virus the following Sunday. It lasted about 20 minutes - as as soon as the euphoria wore off. I continue to attend with Mrs. MOHO but not regularly and I don't into the sanctuary. She knows I have doubts but I think she is CERTAIN that, if she prays often and loud enough, that I will return. We don't' talk about it and this seems to work. Like @Vigile has indicated it would be a bitch for him to exist in a community full of religious folk - but that's what I've got. Tell you what, though - this can have it's "benefits". Just last week we had din din at the home of a couple whom I was unaware that they were so incredible bat-shit crazy, over-the-freak'n-top, fundy. As the conversation went on and on about how god "SPOKE" to them and told them were to build their house and how they evangelize to EVERYONE in the neighborhood and how wonderful they are in god's eye's for doing so and what wonderful people they are and how knowledgeable they are of scripture, I found myself hoping I would regurgitate my meal all over their nice living room floor as a gesture. What I mean by a benefit of being exposed to these narcissistic Cretans is that it negates any and all desire to reenlist. It would take Jesus/god/spaghetti monster etc. appearing before me and performing a miracle to get me back this time.
  38. 4 points
    NOTE: This was written at 5 A.M. after fitful sleep and before coffee. I apologize for any rambling or confusing bits - I was still very foggy. When you're a little kid, you don't know your letters. You point at pictures of kitty and doggy and birdie and stuff. Then you get a little older and you learn to recognize letters and you learn how they go together, and that there are (sort of) rules that help you understand how to form words and form ideas - the basis of language. Some people get really good at something known as calligraphy - literally "drawing letters", rather than just writing or typing them. They're expressing the same ideas, but they're adorning the letters with a flair, a beauty, a style that makes them stand out from ordinary letters. Here's the thing, though - there's an old saying about putting lipstick on a pig - if you get excited about how sexy that pig looks because lipstick, it's only because you're able to disassociate your mind from the "pig-ness" of the pig, and you're able to latch on to the exteriors, the window-dressing. It's like dating someone whose only attractive quality is a huge bank balance that they're willing to waste lavishly on you. There's just nothing else of substance - and no amount of lipstick and lonely desperation makes that pig any less piggy. I'm bored with Christian "calligraphy" - the fancy-ass ways of trying to prove or justify or validate the most unbelievable bullshit. Use the Higgs-Boson theory, use the god-of-the-gaps theory, try using philosophical arguments to explain away the total lack of actual objective data in favor of the existence of your deity. Use whatever, but it's all just the same letters drawn pretty. They don't make any more sense when they're drawn pretty, they don't carry any more weight when they're drawn pretty. They're just the same letters as the Dick And Jane books, the same letters that unlocked the mysterious names of kitty and doggy and birdie when we were four years old. The "Ark Experience" is just really fancy calligraphy telling the story of a really old man with a magic boat. The "apologetics" debates are nothing more than expensive ink and specialized pens and linen paper telling us about talking animals and people eating magic fruit and people fighting giants. Then there's basketball. Most of you don't know, but I used to be a very competitive basketball player. I never got grades good enough to play for my schools, but I played in the parks in a large city, home to a huge university, and I played against a lot of college players. At 6'2" I look huge to the average person, but I was a little man compared to those guys. I more than held my own - to the extent that a coach saw me playing against some of his players and I wound up with a scholarship offer after having played not one minute of organized team ball. Why do I mention these things? Because I loved the game so much that even though I could and did play with guys who went on to be professional players, I would still go to my local parks and play against whoever wanted to play. It was fun - but it also got boring after a while. Being able to fake someone out with a move that wouldn't even make most of my opponents blink, let alone react, is funny for an hour or two. Some of my friends who were decent park players, but not really at the higher level, REALLY liked playing on teams with me at the smaller parks, because I could make them look good and we would almost always win. One of my friends and I once held the court for four hours with the rest of our team being made up of players from our high school's GIRLS' varsity team. Yes, two guys and three girls beat everyone that came to the park that day for four hours straight. I bring this all up because after a while, it was just too easy. Even playing against the best competition I even faced was still just run, jump, shoot. I know I could have gone on and probably would have reached my apex and maybe wouldn't have played among the elite, but even they are just running, jumping, shooting. I hang around most Christians, so ignorant of history and so ignorant of logic and of rhetoric, and they go "ooh" and "aah" over Ken Ham's calligraphy, over Ray Comfort's calligraphy. They swoon whenever someone retells the magic boat story or the magic fruit story or the magically-undead-man story. They're looking at hand-lettered, leather-bound, heirloom versions of kitty and doggy and birdie, that's all. I get around most Christians, and even the ones who want to have the (slightly) more open-ended discussions about reality and mind and the esoteric are just the best players at the local park. After a while, there are just things they can't defend against because it's stuff they have never seen before. After a while, if I want the game to be even a little fun anymore, I have to start pushing myself and forgetting that the other team is even there, like my friend and I did with the girls from our school - the five of us just threw trick passes and took stupidly-long shots and just showed off for one another because the only thing the other team was doing was filling the requirement for there to be two teams in order for a game to take place. I'm bored with calligraphy that says the same shit in different colors and fonts. It's stupid, no matter how expensive your pens are. I'm bored with playing to 15 points, win-by-two, when it doesn't matter which of my teammates shoots - we're going to beat your asses just because we've already played against people that wouldn't even tie their shoes to play against you. You know, players like REAL LIFE and EVIDENCE and LOGIC - I've laced up my sneakers and taken these players on, day after day, and they always win. Christians have nothing that can counter what these players bring to the game. So when you come along with "the truth" or "god said" or "the gospel" or whatever, those are just your fancy letters saying the same unbelievable crap. It's all just your driveway-league Saturday-afternoon farting around, and it's not even remotely interesting. If I play ball with you, it's because I have nothing better to do at the moment, or it beats whatever else I had to deal with at the time. I'm bored.
  39. 4 points
    Hi NowWhat! I was glued to every word of your post. I completely relate to reading the Bible with eyes OPEN and being shocked by the moral atrocities... I remember one night (as I was starting to see the Bible in a new light), coming across Num 31 about keeping the soldiers being instructed to keep the young girls for themselves. I just sat there, stunned. My jaw hanging open, my heart pounding. Like I'd just found out my father was molesting children for decades - or something equally awful... Anyway, I wanted to respond to your sentence about what to tell children... This is a tough one. In your case, you're lucky to have a similarly-minded husband. I've got a believing wife... I work REALLY hard at teaching my 2 daughters CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS. I reflect back a lot of their questions and ask them what they think... I also teach them how to debunk other false claims so they, one day, can apply their thinking skills to their faith. I encourage them not to form strong opinions yet (they are 9 and 11) because they are young and have not experienced enough of life to be sure about too many things... I also point out kindness and goodness in others, specifically NON-CHRISTIANS. I want them to grow up believing that we all have within us the potential for great goodness and great evil - and that has nothing to do with what we believe. I try to instill in them the idea that we ALL have intrinsic goodness. One way I see it working: a couple of months ago, my then-10 year old sat with us in big people church (which I regretted afterward...). The pastor was teaching on the exclusivity of salvation - only those having faith in Christ. He started by asking rhetorical questions that he meant to expose as false in his mind. For one of them, he asked, "Do all people ultimately end up in heaven??" [expecting the congregation to see that as the obvious heresy of universalism]. My daughter, bless her little heart, blurted out emphatically, "YES!". It was a big church and I don't think the pastor heard... by my wife did (!) Good luck with the kiddos. I would't suggest rocking their world too suddenly. But subtly introducing the value and worth of EVERYONE, pointing our goodness EVERYWHERE IT IS, and teaching those critical thinking skills might be all you need to do. One last thought: help them move away from black and white thinking. Let them see the gray - like with abortion or other issues that are gray. Religious fundamentalism thrives where thinking is black and white.
  40. 4 points
    Timely topic, as I was "forced" to come out to one of our bestest, but total fundy, friends/couple last Sunday, telling them I have been a full non believer (atheist) for the last seven years. It did not go well at all. I ended up with sleep disturbance for the next four nights. I did not want to hurt them, but, I got put in a position where I would of needed to lie to them to avoid it all. It has now been nearly a week and it is a lot better. I sought out the ear of a few trusted fellow travelers to "talk me down". It is working. Plus, lot if other helpful sourcea online. It is now clear that what happen will be a long term benefit for me. So, how does one deal with it? Well, one just does. Life is often messy. Deal with it, then do whatever you need to repair and "feed" yourself.
  41. 4 points
    I think they should fly in priests of various religions around the world to bless it. With a follow up of some priests to clean up the "bad blessings" from previous priests who followed "bad" religions. Then a return of the priests whose aforementioned blessings were undone as a result of the clean up blessings. A perpetual cycle of never ending blessings. When they rent that room out again I bet the price will go up and they'll profit off this.
  42. 4 points
    It is good you are seeing a therapist, facing your thoughts and feelings is difficult without a support system and your body will self-medicate, we are very hedonistic beings and Christianity has told you for years that this is due to your sinfulness. It isn't. Its a spiral, your depression creates self-critical thoughts which no longer have the anchor of your belief system in your cognitions, so because there is nothing to address the thoughts, you run and that reaction is normal, but it perpetuates and exacerbates the depression. I have also had to go through depression, but I also had childhood trauma which gave me a nasty dose of PTSD on the way out the door with Christianity, so I can sympathize with your struggles. Society is not equipped to handle these problems, and neither are individuals, its an ugly situation but it usually does not last. Religion is in many ways the opiate of the masses, in that people use both opium and religion to medicate their sorrows in life, and religion happens to be a better way to do it than opium at least. The cognitive beliefs that were given to each of us, shielded us from the absurdity and chaos of reality which assailed against our confidence and hope for the future. With religion's demise, depression sinks in, and the amygdala grows creating a factory of anxious terrors for us to fantasize about ad nauseam. Which means moment to moment, your cognitions are now peppering your conscious with an array of self-demoralizing thoughts and anxious delusions which feel extremely real and this then inclines you to escape, hence the avoidance and self-medicating behaviors. You realize at least that this latent belief has left much of its programming, which we learn really heightened our self-critical awareness and guilt, due to the way Christianity makes you feel about doing the things which the suffering produced by the guilt and shame automatically triggers. I went through the double trouble of leaving Mormonism first in life, than leaving Christianity later in life, having been abandoned by both communities as a natural result, I can certainly sympathize, this loss of community goes hand in hand with the downward spiral of depression as well, as most of these people were likely responsible for those helpful and supportive beliefs and cognitions which gave you that confidence. I have had to go through a long "reconstruction" period, to figure out who I am without Christianity and what it is I now believe. I think that is important as you need helpful cognitions to respond to and explain suffering, but I also think you need to find alternatives for community and some kind of practice to replace your religious habits. I meditate twice a day and do yoga daily, which I think is honestly the most helpful thing to do. Your ruminations get the best of you when they are left unchallenged and unfettered and then you essentially react to your bodily sensations and this results in binges in food, sex and entertainment. Meditation helps you get to what is reality, and get beyond the old illusive self, the talking autobiographical mind which dominates your emotional temperament, to understand that these thoughts which come to mind are not you and you can observe them coming and going, and you can observe these sensations in your body coming and going, without reacting to them, and the more you do this, the easier it is to do throughout your day. I would seriously consider talking about a meditation program with your therapist, and I would suggest Headspace as a good app that you could use, and you can do the 10 session trial over and over again for free without payment. Unfortunately, Christianity has taught us how to repress emotions of desire, but consumerism in the wider society also designs the world so that you will swallow your sorrow in gluttony and over-consumption. This isn't about getting past your guilt and giving into the flesh, as a last F-You to Christianity, that has the hallmarks of self-destructive behavior which would be common for a depressed person whose cognitions have essentially united against them in order to solve an unsolvable problem. What you must do now, is to learn what the world really is like, outside of the lens of Christianity, to accept that, and to live with that wisdom throughout your life. Whatever that ends of being, the problems you have will have to be faced and revealed as the falsehoods that they are, so that you can embrace reality in a more healthy way. I say this not just for you, but for myself and how I have been transformed in the years since leaving Christianity. From the sound of it too, your name is anger and your god is the gym, which is thankfully a good outlet for exercising these demons, but I hope that you keep up the visits consistently and that you develop other personal practices that will help you with your reactions to the depression and the guilt that it accompanies. None of it is true, your brain is designed to try and fix the problem and it does that by telling you over and over again how stupid and selfish you are, but that's just traffic sent by the limbic system. It isn't reality. Christianity is also, not reality, remember that there is no hell, but there is still a world full of consequence and potential suffering so it is better to get yourself under control and move forward, rather than release animalistically and destructively. That is in us too sadly, but this too can be overcome, and contentment and happiness are possible, they just don't look like the religions told you they would look like.
  43. 4 points
    Dr Kaku said something about raising taxes, didnt he?
  44. 4 points
    Hey, welcome to the club! Nice to have you here. I hope that we can help you on your journey away from Christian dogma.
  45. 4 points
    Next time she complains about something.... you know the drill... "What? You slammed your finger in the door? Oh Praise Jesus ! I have such a peace knowing the God has given us the opportunity to pray for healing." ... On the one hand, yes it's an absurd religious preoccupation to be praising God for life's calamities but I can also see that Christians probably say stuff like this to keep from having a nervous breakdown or crying all day long because life is being shitty at the moment. At least you don't have the added stress of wondering whether or not God is going to help or send more calamity. You can skip all that religious business and do what needs to be done to improve life. Anyway, I hope things get better for you.
  46. 4 points
    I’ve nick named my girlfriends ass, “White Privilege.” Because its white, and a real privilege to have. Now that’s become an ongoing joke. “Let me get a feel of some of that white privilege....” lol
  47. 4 points
    I am not a millennial, but I prefer texting if I don't have a reason to speak with someone face to face, or if the person I am texting is busy they will still get my message and get back to me. Or I can carry on a conversation all day long with someone over text, that wouldn't be practical in person or on the phone. Especially if they are not logistically near me. What I DO have a problem with are people that use texting as a crutch to avoid interacting with people in person or even on the phone. I know more than one person like this, but in my experience that has nothing to do with age, those are people are truly socially dysfunctional and have avoidant personalities. If I call you and you and you don't call me back and can only be bothered with texting me one line back...... then fuck you. And the horse you rode in on. (I have two family members that do this and we rarely talk anymore).
  48. 4 points
    This is the crux of the polarization problem. Defending BLM makes you a virtue signalling SJW. Criticizing it makes you an alt-right racist. No room for discussion. No gray areas. Basically, "Agree with me 100% or you're the devil!"
  49. 4 points
    @TrueScotsmanthank you for your efforts to make some difference and perhaps make people think. I have felt like giving up with this site lately due to the amount of crap like this, having a joke at others expense.
  50. 4 points
    The marriage is definitely over. I'd run this by a lawyer to get the official list of what to do and what not to do, but once you know what to do, do it mercilessly. If possible, get the parents evicted and get a restraining order against them so that they can't even visit.