Hi there.

I would like some recommendations for books on the topics of Theology and Science that are suitable for people who have recently de-converted.

My only requirement is that the book has to be one that has been read by the person who recommended it.

When posting a book, please state why you recommend the book.

*Christians are welcome to post books they found insightful, but please don't quote/recommend the Bible.

Thank you

A nice Science book IMO is 'A short history of nearly everything'
It covers indeed nearly everything and it's fun to read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-...=283155&s=books

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer


Your Erroneous Zones (1976), Pulling Your Own Strings (1978), The Sky's The Limit (1980), You'll See It When You Believe It (1989)

Those 4 books. Read them in that order. The 3rd book is hard to find, but can probably still be ordered through Walden, B.Dalton or Barnes & Noble, or whatever your local chain is.

I would like to say that these 4 books are guaranteed to change you, but I only know of my experience, and the few people I know who've read these books, and their before/after story.

I found YEZ in 1993, and then I went to see if he was still writing and was surprised to find out he was (and still is). So I read these 4 books. The books he published after these are 'Spiritual' and in the last few years he's gotten quite a following from The Power of Intention. I hear he's coming out with another book, too. They're good, but only if you're into Spirituality.

His first 4 books are for people based in Reality. The first 2 books will really free you, as free as you want to be. The next 2 will put things into perspective. And then if you want to read his later books, they will be helpful too, just not as these 4 are.

http://www.drwaynedyer.com is the Hay House site for more information.

Easy reading, and it's all about you and how you think and see things.

Chapter 5 of YEZ is all about Guilt and Worry. Nothing to understand really, just read it and it'll make sense, and *poof*, no more Guilt (over passed events) or Worry (about future events). Just takes practice when you get the pangs or other people try to make you feel that way.

He says You are the sum total of your choices, and the way he explains it, we are, for the most part, where we have our input.

Here's a really good deal. Go buy at least the first two books, YEZ & PYOS. If you don't like them, give them to someone else. I've even bought people the first 4 books. Nobody's returned any yet.

So FWIW... Dr. Wayne Dyer. Check him out in a book store or the library. After reading the first few pages of his first book you'll know if you want to consume the entire thing.

The Satanic Bible ~~ Anton LaVey

I read this in 1989, will never forget that October night. I read it on a dare. Someone told me about this book and I didn't even believe there was one. There was no internet or google back then. I told him to call me when he finds a copy. One day he called me from the local Mall and I met him there. I bought the book and told him I'd read it.

Once I started, I couldn't stop. I didn't see it as a Satanic Bible. I saw it as a great Expose on Christianity. Anton LaVey's Satanism isn't evil, it's Live backwards. He explains how Christianity developed and how Satanism, and the drama of it all, developed. Christians are already scared of Satan, so Satanists, doubley so. Boo! Ah! The Ultimate Boogeyman!

The book freed me. I don't think I'd have found or cared about Wayne Dyer's books in 1993 if not for the 4 years after reading TSB.

While reading the chapter on curses, I had this really strange experience. Someone had cursed me back in 1981 and I never really believed it, or thought it was playing on me, but I guess it was. When I read that chapter, I felt this strange energy? shudder? I don't know what to call it to describe it, but I sure felt it. And I felt it LEAVE me. It like just floated away. And since that day, life changed and changed and changed. Even with the bumps and bruses, since 1989 things were different, and then 1993 with Dyer changed things even more and since, still.

So this is another good book to read to finally break free, if you dare. It won't make you a Satanist, because there really is no such thing. It's all a big dramatic joke, but some people just take it as wrong as people take any other religion. What a fantasy world we live in. But it's a great read. Explains a lot.

Science: Cosmos by Carl Sagan - very eye-opening, well-written - and lots of cool pictures

Theology: 101 Myths of the Bible by Gary Greenberg - good starter for confirming your deconversion - lots of "how did I NOT see that before?" Gary Greenerg's home page - he has some other good books too.

Essential:

The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I know many fellow roasted hellbound heathens on this site would similary recommond this one too.

Closing of the Western Mind by Charles Freeman. Excellent.


More later.

I recommend: A History of Christianity, by Paul Johnson
ISBN: 0-7432-8203-5
500+ pages. Hardcover.
Dirt cheap at Borders right now. Found it in the discount books shelfs. $7.-! Can't beat that!

It was written a while back, and it doesn't go into all details, but it gives a good foundation and an overall view of the development of Christianity. The writer assumes Jesus existed, but doesn't dive into any argument if Jesus was the son of God or not. What's interesting is to see the good and especially the bad side of some of the founders of the religion.

Like Rolling Uphill: Realizing the Honesty of Atheism
by Dianna Narciso
Paperback
ISBN: 1-932560-74-2

This book is a great read for those who feel or have felt alone and unsure about their deconversion. In this book, Dianna reveals her mind as an Atheist. She was originally a Xtian but she began to question what she believed, leading to her own deconversion. She is now a rationalist.

This book has found a special place in my heart. It's been read more than once and will be reread. I needed to read and experience the fact that someone else out there felt like I did and that it was perfectly normal. It made me happy to know I made the right choice: to become a freethinker.

Dianna is also the founder of Space Coast Freethought Assoc. in Florida (Website).

A big "10-4" to that! "Demon" is an excellent primer on basics of rational thought, and it's an enjoyable read as well. Helped me a lot!

Also, I would highly recommend "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds", by Charles MacKay. It's an old book, but brings to light a lot of human delusion over the centuries, including a fascinating history of the Crusades, alchemy, etc. A great read!

Yes, that is a very good book. I read it several years ago, and I still think about the conclusions you can draw from it. My whole perspective of society and humanity changed.

I've read lots of books in the past six months. All of them are either exposing the New Testament or supporting the christ myth theory. There isn't any I wouldn't recommend.

"Incredible Shrinking Son of Man" Robert Price
"Deconstructing Jesus" Robert Price
"The Jesus Puzzle" Earl Doherty
"The Jesus Mysteries" Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy
"Biblical Nonsense" Dr. Jason Long
"The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read" Tim C. Leedom

But this one is still my favorite out of all of em. "The Christ Conspiracy" - The Greatest Story Ever Sold. Acharya S.

She throws some conjecture into the mix, and I realize that you need to take her with a grain of salt. But this is still an incredible book full of all kinds of really cool stuff. I found this book the most readable and revealing of any I've read. I don't believe that anybody could read this book and come away still thinking that christianity was legit.

Are there books that any of you have read that you would not recommend?

that's a good question, maybe it needs its own thread?

Haha, yeah, I think when I get to this book I am going to have to dig a hole in the yard to hide it.

I have scared the shit out of my sister and mother way too much since birth. They would probably have me comitted for this one!

Was the best book I ever read. It truly freed me and changed the direction of my life. It lead me to do some things I'd never have done otherwise, and probably wouldn't have found Dyer in 1993 because of what happened in-between.

I wrote inside "A TEXT BOOK" in ink so I could show people that that's ALL I considered it. "Face your fears and do it anyway." "I Dare Ya." was what I was told, and so I did eventually and wow! What a difference!

Makes sense, posts would possibly get confused.

Ok, I see I have a lot of reading to get to. I am going to the book store for my first one today. Hmmm. Tuf figurin out which one I should get.

Let us know what you get. Of course, I vote for Your Erroneous Zones by Wayne Dyer. prob 6.99 or 7.99 nowadays, easy reading, makes sense, and you'll probably want to read his other books after that.

Where does one go to buy this Satanic Bible, I wonder. I can't imagine there will be one readily available at my local Borders.

I think this should be my first one.

Ah, yeah, good idea.

Should be in Borders. The Satanic Bible, Anton Szandor LaVey

All black cover, white words, red pentagram

It's out on Avon books, ISBN 0-380-01539-0 1969

It's 272 pages but you only have to read the first 105, maybe to 128.. you'll see.

I'm sure they could order you a copy, but they should already have one hidden somewhere.

Ok, I will go there later today. If it's not there I'll order it, and in the meantime read Your Erroneous Zones (btw, the name of this book is hilarious).

I second Bill Bryson's "A brief history of nearly everything"

"The Bible Unearthed" and "Who Wrote the Bible" are good.
"A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam" by Karen Armstrong is good.

If you're from a fundamentalist stripe of Christianity, then Dan Barker's Losing Faith in Faith might be good. Probably not so much if you're from a liberal form of Christianity.

I hesitate to recommend "The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read" because I think some of the things it claims are questionable, and it's a litle over-the-top, and I think the editing is poorly done (an excess of spelling errors, typos, and amateurish illustrations are some things I recall.) It's easy enough to discredit Christianity without resorting to some of the things in this book. (I wish I could remember more specifics. The various carbon-copies of Jesus/crucifixion story around the world was one area that was rather suspect though. There's a page on Infidels.org that talks about the work that is the source material for much of that chap. in this book, though I don't seem to be able to find it right now.)

Edit: I found it. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/
Note the disclaimer they put at the top. As I recall, this is basically the same stuff as what's in that chap. of The Book Your Church... has except without the disclaimer. I could be wrong though, it's been awhile since I read this.

As far as science, books about the brain and neuroscience are good, because they explore the idea of the "soul" and consciousness from a scientific perspective, rather than a mystical one. Two I like are "What makes you tick? The brain in plain english" by Thomas Czerner, and "Phantoms in the Brain" by V. S. Ramachandran.

For evolution, Richard Dawkin's "Climbing Mount Improbable" is very good and very interesting.

I saw it in 1993 in a reference library, THOUGHT it did say something different, and then remembered seeing it back in like 1977 thinking the same thing, but realizing what it was, just put it back on the shelf. Then at the last minute I picked it up and took it home. Devoured it! No other book or author or speaker or friend or relative ever put it the way he did. And it works. I didn't really make a conscious effort, but people started saying things like "wow, what happened to you, this would usually send you reeling" and then as time went on "wow, a year ago you'd have reacted like this___ instead". 7 solid years of near dream quality. And then 2000 and started 3 years of hell... or a real big test like M_G says.

But, he has a point.. like the old saying, what doesn't kill you, does make you stronger - what choice do you have anyway? So you choose a positive outlook, looking for solutions and the best way to resolve an issue, rather than taking the same old way of hurting them, and you, and everyone around you.

Yes - M.S. Pecks. - People of the lie. - here's an example of why:- http://www.gurteen.com/gurteen/gurteen.nsf/id/X0006394E

I read the book way to early in my research of decoversion etc. and half believed his utter crap.
I don't much like any of his stuff. Its too selfcentred and very repeatitive.

The first book I read was the one that had the most impact on me.....
Easily available at the local library
Steven Alan Hassan, cult counselor and mind control expert ; Quote
Hassan has been at the forefront of cult awareness activism since 1976 and is the author of two critically acclaimed books – Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults (1988) and Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves (2000

Reading this opened my eyes to the con of the pentecostal sect and allowed me to gain some perspective on the way people are held captive. I've moved on from this theory and looked further into it but its a great intro when you are scared, confused and alone.

Helped a great deal - easy to read.

I would stay away from any book by M. Scott Peck. The guy is a moron and a nutcase. In his widely loved "The Road Less Travelled" he actually uses the old "evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics" canard. He is a complete idiot.

The Illustrated World's Religions : Guide to Our Wisdom Traditions, A
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

I bought this book a few years after I initially converted, but was still hoping that there was some kind of faith I could latch on to.

Despite it's title, it isn't a coloring book for teens . . . it's a very expansive dissection (and quite easy on the eyes) of the major worlds religions, and how they developed; it's very objective -- and not Christo-centric.

To me, it helped open my eyes to the humanness of all world religions (and, thusly, the impossible nature of all of them), although it did turn me on to Buddhism for a while. Of course, Buddhism is more philosophy than religion . . . so, I really didn't digress in my trek away from religiosity. In fact, it helped a great deal.

Yes, seems like a bit of a nut job.



I will buy this book in a few months. I found out I have to take a world religions class for a gen ed req.

Has anyone read" Atlas Shrugged"? Ayann Rand was one of the preminent Atheists of her time and next after the Bible a book that had the most influence on me.

Why was the book so influential to you? I read some rewiews on it, and it seems a bit thick. Is this book supposed to be the author's perspective of what society should be like, or is it a story?

Hi. I couldn't decide on one book, so I got 4. Heh, not much time to read 'em right now.

I got:

A brief history of nearly everything
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
The Satanic Bible
The Demon Haunted World

I started taking nibblets of Demon Haunted World, but mid-terms are getting in the way.

Anyway, what the hell was the point of this message????

Ah, yes. I am just giving you all notice that I will be PMing some of you with questions if any should arise.

Huntsvil, why did that book have such a profound impact on you?

Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennet. This book really blew my mind. Its a tedious read, but worth it. Yanked away all my assumptions about an intrinsic meaning to life. I found it a little disturbing in fact, but also liberating. Dennet examines the philosophical implications of Darwinism, and does a thorough job.

For the one still interested in spirituality, I highly recommend books by Alan Watts. Some titles are, "The Wisdom of Insecurity", "Nature, Man and Woman", "Still the Mind", "This is It", and "The Book". These will show you a different way of seeing the world; from an eastern perspective.

Never read that, but I have read some of her essays. I think she is an important philosopher, I have much respect for her ideas.

Thank you very much, Night.

Just as an aside, I hope there are other people in my boat who find these recommendations helpful.

Cuz this feels a bit like a drug intervention if it's just me being helped.

We'll she is an atheist, but her political and economic ideology extends way beyond that, although all her arguments are are predicated upon a materialist orientation. It's very very coherent, althought I am not quite sure what to make of it. I do agree with (from Leonard Peikoff exposition) that your body is your predominant right, I just dont agree that a social contract and capitialistic ethic rests solely upon that.

I find the casual discussion about the agreement between ppl (in a larger context.. gov't) is too easily brushed over based upon this base, i.e. redux (black and white) frame.

The Objectivist, paraprahasing Peikoff, is closer to the liberal, further from the conservative, but a "true" "radical".

Not sure what those terms are really suppose to mean, as - damn forgot who said, but on the day that the revolutionary wins they become the most ardent conservative. (EG Christianity overthrowing Paganism). But that's the gist.






Also Hunstvil, A-theism is just simply we dont belive in god. It doesn't mean that all athiests are of one political or ideological flavor. Should be no suprise, as all ppl are that way. For instance, in a theist sense, compare Carter to Bush II, or me to Nightfight.

I am currently reading Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth. This is a great book which explains the myths about various religions from different cultures. He is an academic, and it takes a while for me to understand what he is trying to say, but I am impressed with his grasp on life and its mysteries.

Kevin:

That sounds like a great book for my world religion class next semester...

I am still in the middle of Demon Haunted World. The book is excellent!

Keep the recommendations coming though, I am compiling a list of books that I need to read.

Thank you Kevin

"The Born Again Skeptics Guide to the Bible" By Ruth Hermance Green. Should give you plenty of ammo when stating your case to xtian friends and relations (assuming they are actually prepared to hear you out...)

Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion by Marlene Winelle, Ph.D. Winelle was born into a missionary family, and spent her early years as a faithful Christian. As she moved into adulthood, she tried to combine her faith with her counseling profession, but soon realized the fallacies of what she had been taught in the church. This book helped me a lot my first few years out of evangelical Christianity.

From Library Journal
Winell, daughter of a missionary and now a psychologist, had a genuine "born again" Christian experience and then much later went through another rebirth and found herself apart from that tradition. Although she criticizes fundamentalism for its rigidity, militancy, authority, and strong opposition to modern culture, she focuses on understanding and rebuilding, addressing herself not only to fundamentalists (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim) who feel the call but also to those who left and then realize, perhaps years later, that they need to think through the hold that religion still has on their lives. She then addresses issues of healing, reclaiming buried feelings, finding and loving oneself, and growing. Highly recommended for seminary and public libraries.

Leaving the Fold

Just found out that you can read a few chapters of Marlene Winell's book online; they will soon have it as an e-book.
http://marlenewinell.net/node/5

I am gonna jump in here and thow out an author that I have yet to see in this thread.

first off I want to also highly recomend "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Segan (absolutly great book)



I would recomend most Michael Shermer (Why People Believe Weird Things, Science Friction, The Science of Good and Evil, How we Believe) I have read most of the listed books and I hove found them to be enjoyable and an easy read (1 book takes me about a week)

I am currently reading Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" so far it is a very informitive read

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this book . . .

The End of Faith
by Sam Harris
ISBN 0393327655

Just finished it last night . . . I swear, it should be required reading for human beings. It really is a wake up call to all rational minds to put irrational religious ideas in their place. Without being encyclopedic, he talks about how religion has undeniably shaped history with its bloody hand, and yet, even in the face of religious-based terrorism, it's "impolite" to criticize one's irrational spiritual beliefs -- even when they create bloodshed.

He makes an excellent case that if something isn't done about it, it could destroy the world -- literally. The future of civilization could be dependent on whether or not Islamic extremists are ever able to get their hand on nuclear weapons . . . and lists the Koranic scriptures and cites the examples to show how they wouldn't be afraid to use it to glorify Allah. It really opened my eyes there -- I had bought into the Michael Moorian school of thought -- "it's because of US imperialism!" The book doesn't take political sides, and doesn't excuse any imperialism by anyone . . . but it points to the absense of Panamanian terrorists (we invaded them during Bush I's term), Grenadan terrorists or any other host of non-Islamic terrorists that have had the same "anti-imperialist" motivations to do the same. They don't exist, and he answers the nagging question about how college-trained engineers and scientists from wealthy Arab families can tie bombs around their torsos or fly planes into buildings. The only thing that connects these modern terrorists together is their religion -- and he shows how bloody Islam is capable of being.

But, he doesn't just talk about geo-politics, but about personal belief as well, and I think that's will be what attracts the newly deconverted to the book. It really lays out things plainly that took me years to discover . . . reading this book will take YEARS off of the deconversion process.

Here's part of the first paragraph in the Epilogue, which nicely sums up the book's thesis:

I would like to recommend a book per its literary merit, rather than personal agreement with the philosophy proclaimed: Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. An extremely well-written novel extolling the great capacity of man's spirit and what he is able to accomplish on his own. Entirely foreign to my beliefs, the book offends me greatly... that said, this is my second read on it. A challenge, in the same respect that Paine and Huxley and Nietzche present a challenge. Many of you all would probably enjoy it, depending on your perception of man.

I went on a book-buying binge at the university bookstore last week when I was feeling particularly beat-up about having left the "flock". My findings, all of which I have devoured and found useful:
Doubt by Jennifer Michael Hecht (a beautifully written book on what Hecht calls the 'history of doubt', starting with the doubters in ancient Greece and proceeding through modern times. She does a service by offering classifications for various forms of 'heresy' -- it's fabulous.)
The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James (okay, I'm still working on this one, but it dissects various kinds of religion and examines them as a type of sociological mass phenomenon.)
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig (... if you haven't read this one, go out and read it because it's just lovely, and I find Zen to be enough of a non-religion that I feel comfortable dabbling in the idea of it without feeling panicky.)

Another book on Buddhism that has been my bedside book for a couple months now is The Way of Zen by Alan Watts. Watts was mentioned earlier in this thread but not this book in particular, and as I have been in the process of phasing Christ out and phasing the void in, Watts has been a rational comfort to me. I will probably end up not going the Buddhist route but just reading about non-Christians who have found meaning elsewhere is very reassuring.

Why I Am Not a Christian and Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects Bertrand Russell... I'm currently reading it and I love it.