Citsonga

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Citsonga last won the day on September 4

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About Citsonga

  • Rank
    Rationalist
  • Birthday 05/03/1973

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Pennsylvania
  • Interests
    Music, biblical criticism, logic, freethinker dialogue
  • More About Me
    I was raised in Christian family & was a devout Christian until age 29, when I began questioning things due to ongoing Bible study and mounting problems with it. I now fully realize that Christianity is mythology (and presumably all religion, for that matter). I consider myself an agnostic with atheist leanings.

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Fresh salsa. Mmmm, good!

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  1. Interesting. I like the music. If there was a version without the hip-hop vocals, then I'd probably listen to it.
  2. I'm only vaguely familiar with Lou Reed myself. I think the collaboration between him and Metallica probably looked good "on paper," but the end result was unbearable. I just looked up The Blue Mask. At first listen it's not too bad. It would probably take me a couple more listens to fully appreciate, but it's certainly much better than the atrocity known as Lulu.
  3. abortion...

    Daffodil, I was not harping on you. I simply addressed a few things you had said. Anyway, have a great day.
  4. abortion...

    It's not misrepresenting the truth to point out that there are extreme cases. Those cases do exist. That issue is raised. It's been raised in this thread by at least two of us and I've seen it elsewhere. It's not the least bit callous to consider the mother's circumstances to be more important when the fetus is at a stage where it cannot feel anything. What's callous is the disregard for the mother that staunch anti-choice advocates want to push. The tissue is human in nature. I'm not aware of anyone disputing that on any serious level. When it comes to complex moral choices, though, the effects are what have to be weighed. There is no cruelty factor whatsoever in terminating a fetus when there is no brain function yet, because that fetus cannot feel anything. It's not an attempt to "make them feel better" about doing something terrible. It's not terrible when the fetus cannot feel anything. It's unfortunate that they're in that predicament, but it's not cruelty. Most people, including most pro-lifers, have no problem with the slaughter of animals for human consumption, even though those animals are fully sentient. They can feel what is happening to them. Yet the very pro-lifers who are fine with that want to restrict abortion even at early stages where the fetus is not sentient and cannot feel anything. My point here is not about the meat industry, but simply to show the inconsistency in their logic. The issue is complex, yet at the same time it's fairly simple in that we shouldn't do anything that harms someone if it can be avoided. Aborting a fetus prior to brain functionality doesn't harm the fetus one iota. It is not cruel by any stretch of the imagination. Yet forcing women to have those children can have dire consequences for them, which is cruel, and often also ends up being harmful to the very child that the pro-lifers insist be born. I agree, as I have stated previously. By the way, that puts you in the pro-choice camp, the very group that you were railing against earlier.
  5. abortion...

    It's right there in the post I initially replied to. Right after you said what you would like to see, you proceeded to start trashing the pro-choice advocates. I was simply pointing out that they want the exact same thing you want. Why lambast them so, then? It's not disingenuous when they're up against opposition that wants to eliminate all abortion under any circumstance. Pointing out worst case scenarios is an effective tool, but it wouldn't be necessary if the anti-choicers weren't by and large stubborn and insensitive on the issue. (To be fair, many of them probably don't realize that they're being insensitive; I didn't realize it when I was gung-ho pro-life.) As far as abortion as a secondary birth control, while that isn't ideal, keep in mind that the vast, vast majority of abortions take place when there are no brainwaves yet. No brainwaves means no feeling, which means there's no cruelty factor whatsoever. I'm sure that most of them would still rather not have to go through with it, but it's not like it's some heinous thing. Where it becomes problematic is after there are brainwaves. I agree. That's why I side with TrueScotsman on this issue. Brain function should be the dominant factor. Prior to that, there should be total freedom of choice, and most abortions would fall into this category. Once brain function begins, then I think there should be regulations against it, as long as there are exceptions made for serious medical complications. There would be a gray area there in the middle that would be difficult, but otherwise it seems pretty obvious to me what the most logical and moral stance is.
  6. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052477/Pastor-s-daughter-named-dead-Texas-church-shooting.html
  7. I saw something about this a little while ago, but now there are casualty numbers given (the dead count has increased to 27 since the thread was started). So sad. My wife said that the church she goes to (where I used to go) now has people staying in the lobby with the doors locked for this very reason.
  8. abortion...

    It's probably more likely that it's not being used correctly, I would guess. I'm sure that that's true in at least some of the cases, although I obviously cannot know what percentage. Regardless, though, you're sidestepping the point that I was making. Do you really think these people actually want to be in that predicament? Seriously, now. Other than possibly a few oddballs (there are people who strangely like having medical procedures), I am confident that the vast majority would rather that they themselves and women in general not be in the situation of needing to make a decision on abortion, and they certainly don't want rape and incest. That's the point that I was making. The very "pro-choicers" that you were lambasting would actually want the same thing that you said you want.
  9. How useless is prayer

    Thus implying that nature is not under God's control. I guess that shouldn't be surprising, given the fact that even man-made iron chariots are too powerful for their God.
  10. abortion...

    I see you ignored my prior post: Since my deconversion, I've met quite a few liberal people who are pro-choice, and I assure you that they would all align with that. Would you seriously suggest that that is not true?
  11. abortion...

    Pretty much any cause has its extremists, but it's unfair to broad-brush a group based on the extremists. Edited to clarify: I'm not accusing you of broad-brushing. Daffodil seemed to be broad-brushing, though, and that's who I was initially replying to.
  12. abortion...

    From what I've seen, pro-choice advocates agree with this (despite the fact that you went on to paint them in a different light). They tend to be all for contraception availability and use, and they oppose rape and incest. They really would like to see vast improvement in those areas, thus relegating abortion to only the most extreme cases. I do not know of a single pro-choice advocate who actually wants rape, incest, and unwanted pregnancies to continue, so I don't get how you think that this somehow differs from the pro-choice stance.
  13. It's great that you've been liberated and can enjoy stuff like that now. The classic era is the best for real metal fans, but most of the other albums have a lot of good stuff, too. Death Magnetic and Hardwired To Self-Destruct both have some stuff that gets back to the metal roots on the earlier albums, as exemplified in my last post, especially with the song Spit Out The Bone. (Though there's bickering among Metallica fans about their different eras and style changes, I'd personally say that the only bad albums they've made were St. Anger and Lulu.)
  14. Minor correction: She wasn't on his shoulders during this specific scene. Anyway, here's a clip of it: