bornagainathiest

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About bornagainathiest

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    kcopS
  • Birthday January 1

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlU5xmKDLFI

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    In a Mirror universe!
  • Interests
    Astronomy, Spelunkering, Micro-Breweries, Steven Erikson, the Ring Cycle (not Wagner, the other one), StarFleet Battles, D.B.A. (Dead Boring Armies) and D.B.M. (Dead Boring Maneuvers) and SETI.
  • More About Me
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._W._N._Sullivan
    --------------------------------------------
    https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/149-science-and-miracles
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    http://existentialcomics.com/comic/14
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/55867-communion/page-5#.VGcldfmsUuk # 82

    Well, it looks like I ate the BIG M.A.C.
    If he shows up again, that doesn't mean he escaped.
    All it means is that I DID eat him (and shat him out dead) but he's just too stubborn (and too stoopid) to notice!

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Mister Pappy → bornagainathiest
    Great work exposing Rayskidude. I want to personally say thank you.
    Oct 28 2010 06:18 PM
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    It looks like this Lion ate Thumbelina too, but she will NEVER, EVER admit the fact! ;)
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    And the troll.. formerly known as JayL! :)
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    (Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial Pages)
    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm#News
    ----------------------------------------------------
    (Daniel Eisenstein's non-technical explanation of BAO's)
    https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~deisenst/acousticpeak/acoustic.pdf
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    http://www.stanford.edu/~alinde/Eternal86.pdf
    http://iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/1987/T15/024/ (Eternally-Existing Self-Reproducing Inflationary Universe. Linde. 1987)
    http://www.stanford.edu/~alinde/Eternal86.pdf (As above.)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9306035v3
    (From Big Bang Theory to a Theory of a Stationary Universe. Linde, Linde & Mezhlumian. revised 2006)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0712.0571
    (Eternal Inflation, Past and Future. Aguirre. 2007)
    "In particular, I will argue that given eternal inflation, the universe may be free of a cosmological initial singularity, might be eternal (and eternally inflating) to the past, and might obey an interesting sort of cosmological time-symmetry."
    http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v74/i4/e043520
    (Eternal Observers and Bubble Abundances in the Landscape. Vanchurin & Vilenkin. 2006)
    http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v76/i12/e123512
    (Eternal Inflation, Bubble Collisions and the Persistence of Memory. Garriga, Guth & Vilenkin. 2007)
    http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v77/i4/e043526
    (Prediction and Explanation in the Multiverse. Garriga & Vilenkin. 2007)
    http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v82/i6/e063520
    (Boltzmann brains & the scale-factor cut off measure of the multiverse. De Simone, Guth, Linde, Noorbala, Salem & Vilenkin. 2010)
    http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0509184
    (Probabilities in the Inflationary Multiverse. Garriga, Schwartz-Perlov, Vilenkin & Winitzki. 2005)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/arXiv:1108.0665
    (Eternal Inflation, Global Time Cutoff Measures & A probability Paradox. Guth & Vanchurin. 2011.)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301042
    (Inflation Without a Beginning: A Null Boundary Proposal. Aguirre & Gratton. 2003)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0111191
    (Steady-State Eternal Inflation. Aguirre & Gratton. 2002) Geosdesically Complete.
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/88692879/Eternal-Inflation-and-String-Theory-Landscape (Linde)
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/78818152/Laura-Mersini-Houghton-Birth-of-the-Universe-from-the-Multiverse (2008)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1112.4487
    (Determining the Outcome of Cosmic Bubble Collisions in Full General Relativity. Johnson, Peiris & Lehner. revised 2012)
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.2725
    (Hierarchical Bayesian Detection Algorithm for Early-Universe Relics in the Cosmic Microwave Background. Feeney, Johnson, McEwen, Mortlock & Peiris. 2012)
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    http://debunkingwlc.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/borde-guth-vilenkin/
    http://www.theaunicornist.com/2012/02/misquoting-physicists.html
    http://phys.org/news174921612.html (Physicists Linde and Vanchurin Calculate Number of Parallel Universes. 2009)
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/78816168/Andrei-Linde-and-Vitaly-Vanchurin-How-many-universes-are-in-the-multiverse
    http://energy.nobelprize.org/presentations/linde.pdf
    http://sententias.org/2013/01/14/inflationary-cosmology/ (Understanding Alan Guth's Inflationary Cosmology. 2013)
    http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/61382-what-we-see/page-1
    http://www.universetoday.com/87684/astronomy-without-a-telescope-bubblology/
    http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/index.html
    http://universe-review.ca/F02-cosmicbg.htm#multiverse
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21866464
    http://homepages.spa.umn.edu/~larry/PPT/mersini.pdf (Eridanus)
    http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=51551
    (Simple But Challenging: The Universe According to Planck. 2013)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/55125-bible-study/page-3 (Origin of Life)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/55257-ordinaryclayill-never-change/
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54831-theistic-satanism-age-of-aquarius-discussion-continued/page-2 (#39)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54831-theistic-satanism-age-of-aquarius-discussion-continued/page-3 (#54)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54831-theistic-satanism-age-of-aquarius-discussion-continued/page-4 (#72)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54831-theistic-satanism-age-of-aquarius-discussion-continued/page-5 (#84)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52378-annoying-christian-thread-continued-here/page-4 (#76)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52378-annoying-christian-thread-continued-here/page-6 (#119 & #120)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52378-annoying-christian-thread-continued-here/page-7 (#130)
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52378-annoying-christian-thread-continued-here/page-10 (#185 & #186)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference_to_the_best_explanation

    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54403-evangelical-paper-embraces-the-posibility-of-a-multiverse/

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    Evidence is not contingent upon an explanation, a valid and plausible explanation is contingent upon evidence however.
    ----------------------------------------------

    ---------------------------------------------
    Isa 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. Note that to purposely cause disaster is to generate suffering, so translating "ra" as something besides evil just moves the problem a step back without solving it.

    ”Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?” (Lam. 3:38).

    ”...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings” (Jer. 26:3).

    ”...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin” (Jer. 36:3).

    ”I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts....” (Ezek. 20:25-26).

    ”For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them” (Jer. 32:42).

    ”...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

    See also: Jer. 11:11, 14:16, 18:11, 19:3, 19:15, 23:12, 26:13, 26:19, 35:17, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 42:17, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64, Ezek. 6:10, Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chron. 34:24, and 2 Chron. 34:28
    -----------------------------------
    http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/188/
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/36537-to-all-of-gods-critics/page-57
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/56417-what-if-tarot-is-real/page-15
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/55257-ordinaryclayill-never-change/page-3
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/50226-repenting-after-death/page-32
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/36725-god-vs-science/
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    26 May 10, p.30
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/56440-questions-for-ordinaryclay/page-4 #61
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    http://biologos.org/about
    --------------------------
    http://biologos.org/questions/fine-tuning
    --------------------------
    The three main principles upon which modern cosmology is based are:

    1. The universal physics principle – the laws of physics are the same everywhere and everywhen;
    2. The Copernican principle – the Earth is not in a special location within the Universe; and,
    3. The Cosmological principle – at any given time the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic (uniform in all orientations) at large distances.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    "All theories in physics predict some things which are directly amenable to experiment and some which aren't. For example, our theories of the stars predict things one could measure, like how brightly they will shine, and when they're going to go supernova. But they also predict things like the temperature at the center of the star, which we cannot measure directly. We accept these ideas, including their unobservable predictions, because they are the simplest way of explaining the things we can see within a consistent physical theory."
    David Deutsch, 'The Ghost in the Atom' p.84.
    By P.C.W. Davies & J.R. Brown, Cambridge University Press.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9306035.pdf?origin=publication_detail
    -----------------------------------------
    At the beginning of the century many people tried to find a stationary solution of the Einstein equations, with the hope that General Relativity would resolve the inability of Newton’s theory to provide us with a stationary cosmological model. Einstein even introduced the cosmological constant into his theory for this purpose. The non-stationary character of the Big Bang theory advocated by Gamov on the basis of Friedmann cosmological models seemed very unpleasant to many scientists in the fifties. Then, the discovery of the cosmic microwave background turned the situation upside down. Physicists began to treat with contempt any attempts to find stationarity (remember the ‘steady-state’ model). After several decades of the reign of the Big Bang theory, the inflationary scenario appeared, which solved many of the intrinsic problems of the Big Bang cosmology and apparently removed the last doubts concerning its validity. However, it was realized soon afterwards, that inflation is even more dynamic than the old Big Bang theory.
    In inflationary cosmology, in addition to the ordinary classical evolution of the Universe governed by the Einstein
    equation, quantum mechanical evolution proves to be extremely important, being responsible for the large-scale
    structure formation and even for the global structure of the Universe. This quantum mechanical evolution can be
    approximately described by stochastic methods, and some of the solutions of the corresponding stochastic equations
    prove to be stationary! Surprisingly enough, after the dramatic development of the Big Bang theory during the last
    ten years, we are coming now to a new formulation of the stationary cosmology, on a new level of understanding
    and without losing a single achievement of our predecessors. The observable part of the Universe can be very well described by the homogeneous isotropic Big Bang model. However, on extremely large scales (far beyond the visible
    horizon) the Universe is very inhomogeneous. On even larger scales this inhomogeneity produces a kind of fractal
    structure, repeating itself on larger and larger time and length scales. The statistical properties of this structure are what we have found to be stationary.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.pnas.org/content/110/48/19273.full?sid=7758d2c4-421c-44cb-b1ee-e5fca49608c4
    Prevalence of Earth-size planets orbiting Sun-like stars (go to PNAS.ORG and search for 'Earth-size'
    --------------------------------------------------------
    True, Hebrew dates to about 900 BC. The Old Testament dates to the Babylonian captivity period or was at least redacted and edited in that period.

    Abram would have spoken a Nilo-Saharan language, he may have been familiar with Kushitic Akkadian of the Tigris-Euphrates River Valley from his childhood, and the Proto-Arabic spoken in Canaan.

    All of the earlier historic material, going back to Adam, would have passed through perhaps many developing languages over long periods of time. Genesis exhibits multiple stories overlaid onto each other.
    http://www.christianforums.com/t7839724-2/
    --------------------------------------------
    Our Cosmic Habitat

    Martin Rees

    Chapter 9 : The First Millisecond

    Page 127

    "An absolute limit to any credible backward extrapolation is set by quantum theory. The key concept of this theory is Heisenberg's uncertainty relation, [or uncertainty principle] which tells us that the more accurately you want to locate or localize something, the more energetic are the quanta - the packets of energy - you need. There is a limit when the nergy is so concentrated that it risks imploding into a black hole. This limit is the Planck length: it's value is 10 -33 cm - smaller than a proton by about 19 powers of 10. This miniscule length, divided by the speed of light, defines the smallest measurable time interval, the Planck time, about 10-44 seconds."

    Page 132

    "Within about 10-36 seconds - a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second - a microscopic patch could have inflated large enough to encompass everything we now see, and to establish the fine-tuned balance between gravitational and kinetic energy."

    Page 133

    "Inflation, once started, is likely to overshoot, leading to a flattened domain extending much further than the 10 billion light-year dimensions of our observable universe. The distance to the "edge" could be a number with millions of zeros."

    "In this expanse of space, far beyond the horizon of our observations, the combinatorial possibilities are so immense that close replicas of our Earth and biosphere would surely exist, however improbable life itself may be. Indeed, in a sufficiently colossal cosmos there would, somwhere, be exact replicas not just of our Earth, but of the entire domain (containing billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars) that lies within the range of our telescopes."
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/health-science/milky-way-galaxy-finds-home-in-laniakea-supercluster/2014/09/03/a3f28088-33a6-11e4-9f4d-24103cb8b742_video.html
    ---------------------------------
    http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/14990.html
    ---------------------------------
    http://www.docvadis.es/jorge-cordero/document/jorge-cordero/estudio_de_los_efectos_terap_uticos_de_la_oraci_n_de_intercesi_n_proximal_en_discapacidades_auditiva_y_visual_en_la_zona_rural_de_mozambique/fr/metadata/files/0/file/Study_of_the_Therapeutic_Effects_of_Proximal.5.pdf
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    http://www.acperesearch.net/intercessory_prayer_studies.pdf
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    http://norvig.com/prayer.html
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    http://www.christianforums.com/t7833104/ (#9, Shernren) B.A.O.s
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    http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/essaybooks/cosmic/p_lemaitre.html
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    http://ptep.oxfordjournals.org/content/2014/6/06B104.full (Distinguishing between inflationary models using Planck CMB data)
    -------------------------------------
    http://www.sciencefriday.com/blogs/02/25/2015/should-these-scientific-ideas-be-retired.html?series=33
    (Sean Carrol)
    -------------------------------------
    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-02/bu-bur021915.php (Higgs analog in superconductors)
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    Did the universe have a beginning?
    Vilenkin & Mithani, 2012.
    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4658.pdf
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    http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.86.023534
    What can the observation of nonzero curvature tell us?

    Alan H. Guth and Yasunori Nomura
    Phys. Rev. D 86, 023534 – Published 30 July 2012
    ---------------------------------------------------
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1501.06227
    An ancient extrasolar system with five sub-Earth-size planets
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    http://physics.aps.org/story/v27/st12
    http://journals.aps.org/general-relativity-centennial
    Guth/Albrecht/Steinhardt/So_Young Pi/Bardeen/Turner
    1981/82/82/83
    --------------------------------------
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71611-what-should-we-expect-during-a-time-of-grace/page-9#.VwrNnvkrJD8
    #172
    ---------------------------------------------------

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7W3XbDZqO4

    https://youtu.be/uexZbunD7Jg Flat Earth Debunked

    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71611-what-should-we-expect-during-a-time-of-grace/page-9#.V0oa9PkrJD8

    (# 177)
    ---------------------------------------------
    Questions For Christians # 59 (Ficino)
    Christians, What Would Make... # 52 (TrueScotsman)
    ----------------------------------------------
    Babies are made by God using knitting to put them together (Ps 139:13)
    Gravity works because Jesus holds things together (Col 1:17)
    Germs don't exist. Diseases are caused by demons. (many verses)
    Rainbows are caused by God putting a rainbow in the clouds, not by the refraction of sunlight. (Gen 9:12)
    Eagles catch their young with their wings if they fall out of the nest. (Deut 32:11)
    Bats are birds and not mammals. (Lev 11:13-19)
    -----------------------------------------------
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/70711-breaking-news-mass-shooting-in-san-bernadino-california/page-11#.V_welPkrJD8
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71312-man-on-fire/page-4#.WB5kAGqLSpo
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54656-is-the-universe-finetuned-for-life-or-is-god-omnipotent/?page=10#comment-828233
    Intellectual dishonesty is the classic DNA of the xtian cultist especially of the apologist.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/72381-trust-yourself/?page=6#comment-1106687

    I would hate a god like you describe. I would hate such a puppet master.
    God expressed more love and compassion than any being in the universe by granting us free will.
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    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-atom-vs-the-godhead-holy-trinity.7859686/
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    http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3894-Professor-Sir-Roger-Penrose-Oxford-University New Jerusalem on Mars
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    http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/76258-nasa-website-that-lays-out-the-evidence-for-climate-change-in-an-easy-to-understand-manner/?page=1
    Contrasting vs. Opposing

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    Beer. Not just for breakfast - anytime!

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  1. Bibler, "Yes, you can still actively subject Christ to public disgrace after your physical body has passed away. In fact, you will be doing that for eternity. Merely by the fact that you have left your mark on this world, you've become history. You will be known as a person for whom Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough, who did not accept it when provided with the chance to, who "fell away". And thus you will be shaming His Name." . . . I've corrected your post Bibler. You couched your reply in factual terms - when these are not facts, but statements of belief on your part. "Yes, I BELIEVE THAT you can still actively subject Christ to public disgrace after your physical body has passed away. In fact, I BELIEVE THAT you will be doing that for eternity. Merely by the fact that you have left your mark on this world, you've become history. I BELIEVE THAT You will be known as a person for whom Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough, who did not accept it when provided with the chance to, who "fell away". And I BELIEVE THAT thus you will be shaming His Name."
  2. You're absolutely right about that. But can you provide me with a scientific theory that the universe came into existence by itself? That it has no creator/designer? As for the latter, please don't give me the "you can't prove a negative" crap. I want you to provide me not with evidence for a negative, but with evidence for a positive that by its nature refutes the negative I'm professing. The Big Bang theory wouldn't do it either as even though it is greatly supported by observation, it doesn't at all attempt to explain how the universe originated. Until then, maybe you could propose some kind of middle ground where our "realities" could meet? . . . Bibler, You might just be the very first Christian I've encountered who doesn't violate the Copernican principle in their understanding of Big Bang cosmology. The way I can find out is to ask you if you conflate the beginning of the Inflationary process with the Big Bang that we observe from Earth. And your answer is... ?
  3. readyforchange... "So are you saying that after someone dies, they are still actively crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public [dis]grace? " Bibler... "Yes." . . . Please explain how someone can go past the point of no return for repentance (by dying) but still be actively re-crucifying Jesus and subjecting him to public disgrace.
  4. ThereAndBackAgain... "So, you are saying that we cannot be "fallen away" until we have died in our apostasy? That, no matter how much we have rejected Christianity, no matter how much we may work to undermine it, we can still repent as long as we have breath in our bodies?" Bibler... "Yes." . . . Well, that isn't much of a selling point for getting us back into the kingdom, is it? We freely chose to become Christians, but you say we cannot freely choose to become Ex-Christians? Just as god made it impossible for Adam and Eve to return to Eden, so he's made it impossible for us to leave the light and return to the darkness? Hmmm... you won't win many of us back to the kingdom with that approach.
  5. That's interesting logic, Bibler. Why would God give a warning to anyone about something that couldn't happen to them?
  6. Hebrews 10 : 26 - 31. 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. As Ex-Christians we have sinned by turning our backs on Jesus, we have trampled the son of god under our feet, we have treated his blood as unholy and we have insulted the spirit of grace. And you cannot undo any of that, Bibler.
  7. Hebrews 6 : 4 - 6. 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. For this reason, nobody who has turned their back on Christ can be won back into his kingdom. Those who no longer share in the holy spirit (Ex-Christians) cannot be won back to the kingdom. Scripture clearly says that your mission is doomed to fail.
  8. Hello again Jon. Please resist the temptation to respond to Citsonga, Fweethawt, Jeff, the RedNeckProfessor, Astreja, LogicalFallacy, the DarkBishop, the midniterider and Florduh before you answer my question. If it is silly for me to believe (without evidence) that you have toothache... ...why is it not also silly for you to believe (without evidence) that Jesus rose from the dead? I am patiently waiting for your reply. Thank you, BAA.
  9. https://www.nasa.gov/psyche and https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/lucy-the-first-mission-to-jupiter-s-trojans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_Psyche http://www.lunarplanner.com/HCpages/Jupiter-Trojans/index.html There are a LOT of these guys... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jupiter_trojans_(Greek_camp)_(1–100000) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jupiter_Trojans_(Trojan_camp)_(1–100000) ...but the Lucy probe will only visit six of them. Thanks, BAA.
  10. So, from the content of his posts, who (or what) do you think Sight loves most, LF?
  11. In case he's lurking, I have a belated question for Sight. He writes that... "I am indeed a born again Christian, saved by the blood of Jesus Christ my LORD and savior, and as such, I am a Christian, and I acknowledge Jesus as my LORD." Yet, in his thread, 'Bypassing Jesus : How Can A Christian Succeed?' he writes... I want it all now. As a 28 year old, I want to be free. I dream of being free...free from trading time for dollars, free from having to kiss up to a boss, free from trying to run in circles. I want total control of my life, on my terms. In Christianity, this isn't possible. Many are called to lay down their life for Christ...that is, to give up the desires of self for the sake of accepting Jesus Christ and entering into relationship with him. While some can do that, some, like me, aren't sold on it. He's not sold on laying down his life for Jesus Christ. He wants to bypass Jesus Christ in favor of money and success. He says that gaining the wealth and material rewards he wants isn't possible in Christianity. So, my question to him is this. In the light of what Jesus said below, who (or what) is the LORD that Sight truly loves, really serves and is actually devoted to? Matthew 6 : 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. Thanks, BAA.
  12. Ok Dude, That being so and if we're agreed that neither religion nor science deal in proofs, does your argument come down to this? Because both systems are trusted and believed, they can be considered as the same. Thanks, BAA.
  13. Ok Dude, The big deal about proof, now we agree that nothing can be be proven, is this. Since nothing can be proven, setting proof as the condition that science and religion have to achieve, is knowingly setting them a condition that neither can achieve. This is an argument where the conclusion (the failure of both parties to achieve the desired condition) is assumed beforehand by the person making the argument. But this is a logical fallacy. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/53/Begging-the-Question Therefore, any argument built upon a logical fallacy must be an invalid one. Thanks, BAA.
  14. Well, I suppose if the positions were reversed, my feelings would be hurt if someone asked me to prove myself to them. Oh...wait! I didn't do that to Sight, did I, LF? I asked him for evidence. Not proof.
  15. Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.