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About Wertbag

  • Rank
    Strong Minded
  • Birthday 02/21/1977

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    Auckland, NZ
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    MMA, gaming
  • More About Me
    Married father of 1 from New Zealand

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
  1. The common argument from Christians is that we should see the designer in our world and universe because "He's obvious". I've heard a few different commentators pointing out just how bad our world and universe is, with the vast majority of both our planet and the universe being hostile to life. You add in events like the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, potentially another that wiped out the animals from the ice age and the images we see from space of entire galaxies being annihilated and really have to think "this is His plan?" Ways life may be exterminated: - Our sun is burning through its fuel and thereby losing mass. Once its mass gets too low it will no longer hold its shape and will expand to engulf the whole solar system. - Apparently we are on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy. The two will hit with the mass of the stars pulling all planets into annihilation. - One hypothesis says the universe will continue expanding until entropy reduces the universe to a grey dead space. Another says the expansion will reverse pulling all matter into a big crunch. - God did a great job of hiding billions of tons of oil and coal underground and didn't let anyone know that it would be a really bad idea to burn it all while cutting down the forests. We may not know the speed of climate change but we are certainly doing our best to pollute ourselves to devastation. - There are diseases which are antibiotic resistant, others which are lethal and the fast evolving flu which is very contagious. If the next evolution gives the flu lethality and our drugs stop working then we could face another black death or Spanish flu. - Enough suicide bombers/religious nut jobs/end of the world cults that if they could get their hands on nuclear weapons they wouldn't hesitate to blow us to hell. - The ice ages our planet has been through are on a cycle and eventually we could have a return of the glacial period which would bury half the planet. Not seeing a great deal of intelligent design going on here!
  2. Sorry, it is a mistake I make no matter how many times I tell myself people are stupid. I always underestimate just how thick they can be... I keep saying "Surely no one can actually believe this?" and no matter how ridiculous someone will believe it and will take it to whole new levels I hadn't even considered. For example I always thought reptile shape shifters was a meme joke, then I met real believers...
  3. Surely that model fails to explain the summer and winter at the poles? I've tried to confirm which map they use and it is true many refer to the UN flag but I've also seen arguments between FEs where they can't agree. The azmuthi projection (had to look it up, looks like one of a hundred different ways to show a globe in 2D) doesn't work as soon as you start measuring between any point other than the centre. The map was never designed to be a FE model so even FEs are catching on that it can't be right.
  4. I haven't managed to find an example of a flat earth map that they agree on. I can't figure out where the edge in an east/west direction would be? Must be in the ocean, but which ocean can't we cross?
  5. Hey, fair warning was given! What hurts my brain the most is the size of the conspiracy theory. Not only do you have to believe the moon landing was fake but that they went back 6 times and faked them all. They also resort to abuse almost instantly with personal attacks on anyone who disagrees. Childish name calling that is sometimes quite funny. I'd never heard the term Jagaloon before, kind of rates right up there with scallywag and ninkumpoop.
  6. I was browsing the comments section of YouTube, always amazed at how anyone can believe in a flat earth when I came across the greatest piece of denial I've ever seen. The size of the conspiracy theory is staggering. Warning the following rant may cause brain cells to commit suicide: What about the "planets" leads you to be deceived that they are spinning spheres? Oh, I get it, you are a follower of the frauds at NASA and their complicit counterparts at the "outer space" observatories, and of course puppet propagandists such as Neil DeCrass Lieson...You believe there are space probes in fake outer space magically traveling to these luminaries and taking actual photos, am I right? The truth is that 100% of what has been provided by these fraudsters are CGI, CG cartoon animations, and film set trickeries. There are no orbits, light years is a lie, the van allen radiation belts is a lie, space probes are a lie, space telescopes are a lie, the ISS is a lie, astronots are treasonous frauds, galaxies do not exist, nebulae do not exist, gravity is a lie, space shuttles were lies, rockets in space are a lie, black holes do not exist, Einstein is a fraud, the big bang is a lie, dinosaurs are a lie, cavemen is a lie, evolution is a lie, atomic theory is a lie, the list goes on and on and on...Is the earth a CGI sphere or is it an oblate spheroid, or spinning pear? LOL! Whatever these frauds tell you your sheeple self you will gobble up as fact...Wake up and smell the deceptions you oblivious, mindless cockroach... The stupid, it hurts.
  7. I am 40 years old and in my lifetime I have seen Christianity dwindle to the point where I believe the end is in sight. Now by ‘end’ I don’t mean the complete eradication of Christianity (I would love for that to happen but am a realist in believing it never will), but that it will reduce to the point where it is the minority in every way to the non-religious in the Western World and therefore ignored and irrelevant to life on our planet. 30 years ago, as an agnostic searching for the truth, I visited the local public library and browsed the religious section. There were hundreds of books in favour of Christianity but I couldn’t find any that gave an alternative view. This search pre-dated the internet and finding information proved challenging. I have revisited the same library and now the shelves are packed with competing viewpoints for every subject. There is a default condition that if a statement sounds reasonable at its face value and no one is arguing against it then we will generally accept it as plausible. Someone could say “Do you believe Japan exists?” Having never heard of anyone who claims it doesn’t would mean I’ve by default always accepted that it does. I’ve never travelled there and it has never even occurred to me that it could be a huge conspiracy. As soon as someone starts providing evidence and a valid argument why it in fact doesn’t exist then I would have to reassess my understanding and investigate more thoroughly. So to my mind the very fact that an alternative viewpoint exists makes you ask questions of your beliefs that otherwise would never have been asked. Jump back a hundred years and you have a society where Christianity was not questioned, so the question was simply “which denomination are you?” because there was no alternative to consider. The internet only really started becoming common in the last 20 years and massive sharing sites like YouTube in the last 10. I therefore believe it will be this generation that grow up with such technology already in existence that will know such arguments from day 1. As the older generations pass away then society will be made purely of people who are aware this argument exists. Once they start browsing they will be able to compare both sides (science, reason, evidence and logic vs faith, bad science, confusion) and more and more will see there is only one position which stands up to debate. I found this interesting list of statistics (believable as it is a Christian website giving the bad news), it is a 2007 article so dated but still of great interest: http://www.churchleadership.org/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=42346 · Every year more than 4000 churches close their doors compared to just over 1000 new church starts! · From 1990 to 2000, the combined membership of all Protestant denominations in the USA declined by almost 5 million members (9.5 percent), while the US population increased by 24 million (11 percent). · Half of all churches in the US did not add any new members to their ranks in the last two years. I believe this has reversed a bit due to an influx of non-Western Christians, but the same reasons for the decline in the West will flow through to the other parts of the world, just a little slower. It is not a case of the internet is the only factor to consider, as you see atheism discussed on every form of media. From books, to legal challenges, debates to talk shows the message is loud and clear. There is an alternative, there are plenty of people who are non-believers, you will not be struck down or disadvantaged by disbelief and many of the most famous and intelligent people support this viewpoint. It is one thing to have some nobody on the internet say “I don’t believe” but hearing it from incredibly smart people (Hawking, Tyson, Nye, Dawkins etc), the world’s richest people (Gates, Branson, Buffet etc), your favourite movie celebrity (Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, Angelina Jolie, Stephen Fry etc) or TV personalities (Bill Maher, Ricky Gervais, Billy Connelly, Jeremy Clarkson etc) really makes people pay more attention. Being a successful atheist shows that you don’t need to be blessed to achieve your goals. In my early days of study on the subject it was one of the things that really stuck in my mind; we all have the same life expectancy, suffer from the same amount of illness, accidents, crime, cancer and negative events in our life. If God really cared about any group on the planet we should see one group whose very blessed lives proved their divine protection. We don’t see that, and it is a reason people leave the church. Atheists having great lives while they should be hated by God while Christians suffer badly and yet they are meant to be the chosen ones. That reality continues to beat against the loving claims Christian’s make of God.
  8. Expect to be hit up for donations any day now. God maybe all powerful but He still needs your cash.
  9. I saw a Canadian poll where they questioned people at church as to what they believed. Their findings were around 25% attended because their family forced them to, due to tradition, due to peer pressure or for the social aspect. That 25% admitted to having no belief in god yet would still answer surveys calling themselves Christian. If that percentage carries across all religions and countries (big if) then there are already more atheists in the world than any single religion.
  10. I've looked at NDE but all research points to it being a function of the brain. What you find is that religious people will generally have an experience that matches what they've been taught. Muslims will meet Allah, Christians meet Jesus and Shinto's meet their ancestors. The tunnel of light experience can be manually triggered by shock and people who are on the verge of fainting can see that effect. People who have never been taught religion like African tribes never experience Jesus. I believe it is a flood of endorphins and a short circuited brain pulling images together then trying to make sense of the overload.
  11. I suffered from depression when I was younger, to the point of considering suicide and my thoughts at the time were identical to what you describe. If I could go back in time, what I would have liked to tell myself is that life does get better. Problems seem insurmountable because we are looking short term, but really life is a long journey and everything can change. Whether it be your love life, your home, your health, your job, your education, your hobbies, really there are lots of ways you can assert control and head in a direction of your choosing. I was a weedy nerd, few friends and no girlfriends, average school results due to a lack of motivation (I did great when I gave a damn but just didn't care about most subjects), no career path and all I could see was negative. I decided I would try something to improve my fitness and give me a hobby and found martial arts (mainly taekwondo for just over 9 years). I succeeded in gaining fitness but also made new friends and gained new skills but most of all I had something to focus on that took my full concentration and was good fun. I realised I only suffered from the depression when I sat and dwelt on it, as soon as my mind was fully engaged in an activity I no longer even thought of the negatives. I found my own apartment, dated girls from online dating sites, took up learning German, cross trained muay thai and jujitsu and started writing a novel. The more time I invested in positive activities the more joy I had in life. I ended up marrying a girl I met from a dating site (just had our 4 year anniversary) and we now have two kids. I'm not sure any guy will ever say they are ready to be a father and I certainly still think I'm too immature to this day to be given such responsibility, but once my daughter got old enough to show her love my heart exploded. Coming home from work to a flying cuddle from the cuteness is a highlight of my day. All I can say is find your joy. Take up new hobbies and sports, put yourself out there and experience new things. Imagine what your life could be like in 5 years time, it doesn't have to stay as it is, just steer in the direction you want to take.
  12. The other thing to consider is the volume of prophecies. There were dozens of prophets writing at the same time you just don't hear about the others as their guesses were completely wrong. With enough guesses eventually someone is going to get something right. Whereas if Nebby hadn't won we would be talking about the great prophet Bob and his prediction of Tyre's great victory, Ezikiel's writings would have been consigned the fire. Also Ez says Tyre will be flooded, covered by great waters and yet it remains dry to this day.
  13. Regarding abiogenesis, this is the creation of single cell life, so with that in mind imagine it was happening right now in the oceans of the world... how would we know? When the life form is only visible under a microscope and the area of consideration is the majority of our planets surface it is the smallest ever needle in a planet size haystack. Approximately 18,000 new species were catalogued last year and researchers guess there are millions more not yet recorded. If a new species arose in the mean time we have such a huge mountain of species to recognise as it is, that the one more wouldn't stand out.
  14. Doesn't look likely to work, they haven't successfully reattached a spinal cord and all their animal tests were failures. Based on a thousand failures they now think they can succeed with a human. Would be great but don't think we are close.
  15. Isn't the biggest problem that we don't know who, when or why the various books of the bible were written? How do you tell the difference between reported news and future predictions if you don't know for sure when it starts? I don't believe any of the supposed prophets actually stated they were? There is also the risk of forced prophesies, in that the prophet tells his followers what his claim is, then you have hundreds of people actively working to make it come true.