Kick-starting Autonomous Thinking In Christians

[Ouroboros]

As for “evil motherfuckers” – God is not. God is about reality. Look around you man. Those of you without God are definitely not leading a peaceful existence.

Eh, really?! Like what? You mean the god loving Christian Bush started a peaceful and loving war, while I sit on my evil ass and do the immoral act of not hurting a fly? Please elaborate...

 

You’ve obviously been influenced by the PC crowd. God has always been a God of justice. Always.

And he creates evil (according to the Bible).

 

And he's jealous, angry, violent and take revenge (also according to the Bible).

 

You don’t agree with justice? You believe wrong is right?

I believe the law in country, established by peers, is the justice to follow. Not the one established by an insane prophet that thought he got the laws from a supernatural imaginary entity. Normally the latter would be a sign of schizophrenia.

 

God is real dude and one badass judge. You can believe that!

Nope. Sorry. Don't believe that. Don't believe he's a dude or badass or judge.

 

Are you yet another troll??? Do we have some kind of sign on the door saying "all trolls welcome"???

[Quick]

I haven't seen any fanatical jew running around yet trying to proselytize. Did you?

 

People can believe in Fraboozle the most omnipotent (whoever this might be), I don't care... as long as they don't demand that I do too.

 

(Of course, what modern Israel does to the Palestinians may well be another question... but that would be another thread)

 

 

I don’t live in Israel, do you?

 

Who demands you believe? People around you or something within you? I ignore those around me as well – you might better think twice about ignoring that within you.

 

Modern Israel wastes Palestinians daily. So what? Is your heritage any different? Or mine? None of this has any bearing on the existence of God. None!

 

BTW, my God isn't hanging on a cross, HE gave your god the ability to make the hammer.

[Quick]

Eh, really?! Like what? You mean the god loving Christian Bush started a peaceful and loving war, while I sit on my evil ass and do the immoral act of not hurting a fly? Please elaborate...

 

Bush acts on behalf of himself and his cronies. To call any politician a God fearing man is ridiculous. Bush did something to fulfill prophecy, whether you believe it or not.

 

And he's jealous, angry, violent and take revenge (also according to the Bible).

 

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

I believe the law in country, established by peers, is the justice to follow. Not the one established by an insane prophet that thought he got the laws from a supernatural imaginary entity. Normally the latter would be a sign of schizophrenia.

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

 

Nope. Sorry. Don't believe that. Don't believe he's a dude or badass or judge.

Are you yet another troll??? Do we have some kind of sign on the door saying "all trolls welcome"???

 

No, you do offer discussion and debate on your advertisement. Truth, like cream, floats to the top. Got milk?

[Ouroboros]

Bush acts on behalf of himself and his cronies. To call any politician a God fearing man is ridiculous. Bush did something to fulfill prophecy, whether you believe it or not.

Regardless of Bush, why do you claim I do evil things?

 

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

 

 

I believe the law in country, established by peers, is the justice to follow. Not the one established by an insane prophet that thought he got the laws from a supernatural imaginary entity. Normally the latter would be a sign of schizophrenia.

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

God doesn't judge or create justice at all. Justice is a human invention and is established by peers. God can't be the judge, because he didn't personally write any laws. If you claim the 10 commandments I have to ask you who wrote them, what about the other 603 laws (including the one where you're supposed to stone unruly kids), and how come there are multiple versions of the 10 commandments?

 

The stakes were for people that didn't believe in the religious dogma based on your Bible. The stake burning stopped when people with rational minds started to put a stop to it. Superstition like yours have caused damage to humanity while reason and rationality has not.

 

No, you do offer discussion and debate on your advertisement. Truth, like cream, floats to the top. Got milk?

Just checking, because we do get people here that only want to stir up and not discuss. Debate is one thing, causing havoc because you have a desire or lust to do so is not accepted.

[Quick]

Bush acts on behalf of himself and his cronies. To call any politician a God fearing man is ridiculous. Bush did something to fulfill prophecy, whether you believe it or not.

Regardless of Bush, why do you claim I do evil things?

 

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

 

 

I believe the law in country, established by peers, is the justice to follow. Not the one established by an insane prophet that thought he got the laws from a supernatural imaginary entity. Normally the latter would be a sign of schizophrenia.

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

God doesn't judge or create justice at all. Justice is a human invention and is established by peers. God can't be the judge, because he didn't personally write any laws. If you claim the 10 commandments I have to ask you who wrote them, what about the other 603 laws (including the one where you're supposed to stone unruly kids), and how come there are multiple versions of the 10 commandments?

 

The stakes were for people that didn't believe in the religious dogma based on your Bible. The stake burning stopped when people with rational minds started to put a stop to it. Superstition like yours have caused damage to humanity while reason and rationality has not.

 

No, you do offer discussion and debate on your advertisement. Truth, like cream, floats to the top. Got milk?

Just checking, because we do get people here that only want to stir up and not discuss. Debate is one thing, causing havoc because you have a desire or lust to do so is not accepted.

 

Do you own a concordance? A book that explains the original words, either Hebrew or Greek, translated into English? It would help you understand some of the biblical text a little better. God created all, everything, good and bad. Evil is a choice you can use. God created all – the dark side as well. He just didn’t promote it as the way to live.

[Ouroboros]

Quick, go back to your posts and mine and read them again.

 

I said "God creates evil"

 

You responded, "God does not create evil"

 

I gave you Bible verses, and now you admit that God created evil. But read the verses is say "creates" not "created". The word for "evil" can also be translated "disaster", "terror" etc.

 

So what's your point?

 

Ra`

rah

 

Definition

adj

bad, evil

bad, disagreeable, malignant

bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

evil, displeasing

bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

bad (of value)

worse than, worst (comparison)

sad, unhappy

evil (hurtful)

bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

in general, of persons, of thoughts

deeds, actions n m

evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

evil, distress, adversity

evil, injury, wrong

evil (ethical) n f

evil, misery, distress, injury

evil, misery, distress

evil, injury, wrong

evil (ethical)

 

 

King James Word Usage - Total: 663

evil 442, wickedness 59, wicked 25, mischief 21, hurt 20, bad 13, trouble 10, sore 9, affliction 6, ill 5, adversity 4, favoured 3, harm 3, naught 3, noisome 2, grievous 2, sad 2, miscellaneous 34

Questions?

 

When it comes to chosing, God choose to kill, murder, steal, lie and encourage his people to do the same acts in the OT. So he not only created evil, but he also did evil things and promoted them.

 

While you ponder that, I'd like to ask you if the Bible is without contradictions? Are you one of those fundamentalists/literalists?

[Quick]

Bush acts on behalf of himself and his cronies. To call any politician a God fearing man is ridiculous. Bush did something to fulfill prophecy, whether you believe it or not.

Regardless of Bush, why do you claim I do evil things?

 

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

 

 

I believe the law in country, established by peers, is the justice to follow. Not the one established by an insane prophet that thought he got the laws from a supernatural imaginary entity. Normally the latter would be a sign of schizophrenia.

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

God doesn't judge or create justice at all. Justice is a human invention and is established by peers. God can't be the judge, because he didn't personally write any laws. If you claim the 10 commandments I have to ask you who wrote them, what about the other 603 laws (including the one where you're supposed to stone unruly kids), and how come there are multiple versions of the 10 commandments?

 

The stakes were for people that didn't believe in the religious dogma based on your Bible. The stake burning stopped when people with rational minds started to put a stop to it. Superstition like yours have caused damage to humanity while reason and rationality has not.

 

No, you do offer discussion and debate on your advertisement. Truth, like cream, floats to the top. Got milk?

Just checking, because we do get people here that only want to stir up and not discuss. Debate is one thing, causing havoc because you have a desire or lust to do so is not accepted.

 

Do you own a concordance? A book that explains the original words, either Hebrew or Greek, translated into English? It would help you understand some of the biblical text a little better. God created all, everything, good and bad. Evil is a choice you can use. God created all – the dark side as well. He just didn’t promote it as the way to live.

 

Sorry, I just noticed that you replied to several comments. I only saw the highlighted one at first. I will reply tomorrow to the rest. Got to hit the sack. The reality of working for a living applies to us all.

[Japedo]

You obviously don’t understand biblical text. John 3:16 has nothing to do with burning.

 

What does that mean about those who don't believe?

It does have to do with believing.

 

If one believes in aliens does that make it fact? Point being beliefs need proof in order to be believable. no?

 

Believing that you have the opportunity to live forever.

 

Doing what? Falling over yourself to please a bully, sounds like an eternity sentence with an insanely jealous abuser. I'll pass, as I have said before, I'll repeat here now. I wouldn't tolerate that personality flaw in a person, forget in a god, and then in addition to that call him perfect? what a laugh....

 

Jesus fulfilled the law,

 

 

What "Law" are you referring to here? It couldn't be the Jewish law you said was null n' void could it? Funny how that can't possibly be. If you studied anything about said law you'd know 3 major points. 1) The law endures even after the earth passes, nothing can unbind it 2) Number one is part of the law and Number 3) how did Christ uphold the laws that were made for women,high priests and Temple laws? Perhaps you should go back and actually know your religion and study the religions yours derived from so you're better prepared here.

 

everyone who died in compliance with the law will have eternal life.

 

lol Again, Please take my advice above... You have zero concept of what sins are or how to obtain forgiveness, Your lack of knowledge is showing.

 

The ten commandants are NOT in effect as laws.

613 Laws which Jews still observe .... but I digress

 

What Jesus said was that if you believe, you will not violate these laws. If you worry about laws, you’re lost and will forever be.

 

Which goes against the law itself, Meaning... he sinned. One of the clues that god passed down that the prophet was false was who ever advocated the laws be changed or done away with. The "laws' are very clear.

 

 

Those of you without God are definitely not leading a peaceful existence.

Quick to judge often? I'm more at peace knowing facts that I am in some sorta emotionally manipulating relationship with the invisible man.

 

God has always been a God of justice. Always. You don’t agree with justice?

By a Jury of his human peers by the United States Justice system, he'd be tossed into the clink with no possibility to see the light of day, Again it's clear you don't read your buybull.

 

You believe wrong is right?

 

Psychological projection obviously...

[Ouroboros]

Sorry, I just noticed that you replied to several comments. I only saw the highlighted one at first. I will reply tomorrow to the rest. Got to hit the sack. The reality of working for a living applies to us all.

No problem. Take your time. It's a bummer, this whole notion that we have to work for money and food. I think the idea is that it was Adam's fault. If they only had eaten the fruit from the other tree...

[Thurisaz]

Look around you man. Those of you without God are definitely not leading a peaceful existence.

 

We've got troubles and openly admit it. You've got troubles and desperately try to play the happy believer, driving yourselves (as a group) into all kinds of mental afflictions. Now let's talk about who's happier.

 

God has always been a God of justice. Always. You don’t agree with justice? You believe wrong is right?

 

We believe in justice. That's why we dropped your evil death cult.

 

Congratulations morontheist. With postings like that one of yours you do a good job reaffirming that we made the right decision.

[Thurisaz]

Who demands you believe?

 

You and the rest of you fucking braindead morontheists. No one else.

 

None of this has any bearing on the existence of God. None!

 

Of course not. One can't have any bearing on a nonexistent entity.

 

BTW, my God isn't hanging on a cross, HE gave your god the ability to make the hammer.

 

And I'm the emperor of China.

Read and learn: Unsupported assertions may impress your fellow already-brainwashed morontheists, but in this place, the only thing you'll achieve with them is demonstrating what an idiot you are.

 

(Of course I can't prove the existence of the High Gods of the North either... but then, I'm not the one running around babbling "convert OR ELSE!!!11!!!!")

[Evolution_beyond]

There's another inconsistency that's in the OT that I recently heard about:

 

Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (JHWH) was I not known to them.

 

But yet, if you go to Genesis 24 Abraham speaks about the "Lord" and "God" and the words used there are YHWH. So according to the Bible, Abraham knew YHWH, but yet Moses heard from God that Abraham didn't know God by that name.

 

That's simple to explain. These books were written many years after the events. The writer of Genesis may not even be the same writer as that of Exodus. The writer of Genesis uses the term YHWH of God because that is one of the ways in which he or she refers to God. The writer of Exodus however states that Moses was the first to use the term YHWH of God. This might even be true - it doesn't stop the writer of Genesis from using the term to describe God's interactions with Abraham, Jacob etc though does it, given that by the time those stories are written down it is a commonly accepted name for God?

 

Of course most of these people probably never really existed and are legendary or mythical because we only really have evidence of the Israelites from the time of Solomon onwards. But I tend to think most of the books of the Bible were written honestly - they are not deliberate bullshit. It's just that some of them contain misunderstandings, human errors or contain passages that are entirely mythical in nature (this was an ancient people after all).

[Evolution_beyond]

I think it is interesting to bring to light the passage in Exodus 34.

 

I do think it is possible to argue that those 'commandments' in Exodus 34 are extra commandments given (like the ones that follow the Ten Commandments in Exodus 21-23) at the same time as God is ordering Moses to write the Ten Commandments again.

 

However it is interesting that they seem to also be ten in number, and that God announces them as his covenant with Israel and that the whole passage is concluded with the words "he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant - the Ten Commandments"

 

I can see why it would cause food for thought, and possibly rupture the certain faith of fundamentalists. But I think there are even better inconsistencies and problems in the Bible for doing that.

 

The argument is weakened a little by the counter-argument that God could have been ordering Moses to write the Ten Commandments on the new tablets (the same Ten Commandments as before) but is also giving other commandments (he does give a lot of commandments to Moses in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy) at that time and also tells Moses to write these down (separately perhaps).

[Evolution_beyond]

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

 

Ah, that old chestnut.

 

God gives us Free Will - but God is also the JUDGE.

 

If I told someone that they were free to do something I wanted them to, or to do something that I didn't want them to do - but that I'd punish them severely if they did the thing that I didn't want them to - wouldn't I be the most outrageous bully and not very loving? In what way would someone who does that be acting in such a way as to grant that person freedom?

 

If God is the judge of all our actions then the whole idea of Free Will is a farce and God has not given us freedom after all. Furthermore, if God punishes us with eternal hellfire for going against his will (a punishment equivalent to me saying that I'll chop off all your arms and legs if you go to the pub when I want you at home) then he cannot be a loving god

 

I just don't understand how christians can believe in two contradictory things - God gives us Free Will and God judges. If you command someone, if you gives someone orders and if they disobey them then you will punish them horribly - it can hardly be said that you are someone who gives them freedom to make whatever choice they wish!

[Japedo]

]

 

That's simple to explain. These books were written many years after the events. The writer of Genesis may not even be the same writer as that of Exodus. The writer of Genesis uses the term YHWH of God because that is one of the ways in which he or she refers to God. The writer of Exodus however states that Moses was the first to use the term YHWH of God. This might even be true - it doesn't stop the writer of Genesis from using the term to describe God's interactions with Abraham, Jacob etc though does it, given that by the time those stories are written down it is a commonly accepted name for God?

 

 

Actually the first 5 books (which are considered the Jewish Torah) are all credited to being written by god thru Moses. Rabbis explained to me that different names given to god were his different attributes for what its worth.

[Evolution_beyond]

]

 

That's simple to explain. These books were written many years after the events. The writer of Genesis may not even be the same writer as that of Exodus. The writer of Genesis uses the term YHWH of God because that is one of the ways in which he or she refers to God. The writer of Exodus however states that Moses was the first to use the term YHWH of God. This might even be true - it doesn't stop the writer of Genesis from using the term to describe God's interactions with Abraham, Jacob etc though does it, given that by the time those stories are written down it is a commonly accepted name for God?

 

 

Actually the first 5 books (which are considered the Jewish Torah) are all credited to being written by god thru Moses. Rabbis explained to me that different names given to god were his different attributes for what its worth.

 

 

Yes, but they weren't actually written by Moses.

 

They couldn't have been because Moses death is described at the end of Deuteronomy. And Biblical scholarship has shown that there are at least three different sources for the material in the Torah. Most of Genesis and much of the narrative parts of Exodus and Numbers were likely written about 1000 BC, Deuteronomy was likely written around the time of Josiah, and Leviticus and certain parts of Exodus and Numbers were probably written post-exile, around the time of the rebuilding of the Temple.

 

At least that's what I've read.

[Japedo]

Yes, but they weren't actually written by Moses.

 

They couldn't have been because Moses death is described at the end of Deuteronomy. And Biblical scholarship has shown that there are at least three different sources for the material in the Torah. Most of Genesis and much of the narrative parts of Exodus and Numbers were likely written about 1000 BC, Deuteronomy was likely written around the time of Josiah, and Leviticus and certain parts of Exodus and Numbers were probably written post-exile, around the time of the rebuilding of the Temple.

 

At least that's what I've read.

 

You could be right...

 

When we get down to it the buybull was written by man, stories and so forth are completely that of a tribal mindset and these among other issues have helped me at least, reject it entirely. While seeking answers I did take many classes from rabbis, of which I loved and learned much. I was just pointing out how orthodox Jews look at things is all. The torah is also called the 5 books of Moses, and I do remember being told that Joshua wrote about Moses death.(?) Anyways.. it's neither here or their this is sorta like debating which reindeer actually pulled Santa sled.

 

In saying that I think it is absolutely critical that Christians learn their history in order to have a better understanding of things they are promoting.

[Ouroboros]

That's simple to explain. These books were written many years after the events. The writer of Genesis may not even be the same writer as that of Exodus. The writer of Genesis uses the term YHWH of God because that is one of the ways in which he or she refers to God. The writer of Exodus however states that Moses was the first to use the term YHWH of God. This might even be true - it doesn't stop the writer of Genesis from using the term to describe God's interactions with Abraham, Jacob etc though does it, given that by the time those stories are written down it is a commonly accepted name for God?

Of course that's my view too, that the author never really knew what Abraham did say or not say, and most likely didn't know what Moses hear or didn't hear or even if he met god or not.

 

The reason I brought up the question is that a literalist or fundamentalist view can not hold up to explain the contradiction. On the other hand a critical analysis can explain it. The literalist must admit that either the author of the books were wrong and the text can't be taken literal, or the stories are not true at all. The dilemma for the fundamentalist is that they claim these two books were written by Moses, which is not a view held by historians. And even if a fundamentalist/literalist admit that these two books were not written by Moses, still god messed up when he gave the "literal" truth to the authors.

[NotBlinded]

Yes, we are created in God's image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn't the same?

You'll have it if you turn it around: Yes, God is created in man's image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. That sounds more realistic doesn't it?

 

If you take the myth literally, you have created an idol out of the minds of humans and claimed this to be God. Humans know nothing else besides being human. Knowing this, why is hard for you to understand that God would reflect the minds of humans but so easy to think you can comprehend something you have no way of understanding?

 

"If horses had Gods, they would look like horses." Xenophanes

[currentchristian]

...Those of you without God are definitely not leading a peaceful existence. You’ve obviously been influenced by the PC crowd. ...

 

You have no way to know that and no right to say it. Until you are able to get into someone's mind and spirit, you cannot make such statements. Judge not and you will not be judged. A really great man once said that.

 

-CC

[currentchristian]

...Bush did something to fulfill prophecy, whether you believe it or not.

 

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't tell me that you really believe that.

 

-CC

[Quick]

Who demands you believe?

 

You and the rest of you fucking braindead morontheists. No one else.

 

None of this has any bearing on the existence of God. None!

 

Of course not. One can't have any bearing on a nonexistent entity.

 

BTW, my God isn't hanging on a cross, HE gave your god the ability to make the hammer.

 

And I'm the emperor of China.

Read and learn: Unsupported assertions may impress your fellow already-brainwashed morontheists, but in this place, the only thing you'll achieve with them is demonstrating what an idiot you are.

 

(Of course I can't prove the existence of the High Gods of the North either... but then, I'm not the one running around babbling "convert OR ELSE!!!11!!!!")

 

I’ve not demanded you believe a damn thing. I’m saying I believe and if you care to discuss the reason why – I’ll tell you. If you want to just hide behind a tuff guy avatar and ejaculate nonsense as some sort of reasonable communication – forget it. Little boys like you are a dime a dozen on the street. What sets you apart?

[Quick]

Quick, go back to your posts and mine and read them again.

 

I said "God creates evil"

 

You responded, "God does not create evil"

 

I gave you Bible verses, and now you admit that God created evil. But read the verses is say "creates" not "created". The word for "evil" can also be translated "disaster", "terror" etc.

 

So what's your point?

 

Ra`

rah

 

Definition

adj

bad, evil

bad, disagreeable, malignant

bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

evil, displeasing

bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

bad (of value)

worse than, worst (comparison)

sad, unhappy

evil (hurtful)

bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

in general, of persons, of thoughts

deeds, actions n m

evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

evil, distress, adversity

evil, injury, wrong

evil (ethical) n f

evil, misery, distress, injury

evil, misery, distress

evil, injury, wrong

evil (ethical)

 

 

King James Word Usage - Total: 663

evil 442, wickedness 59, wicked 25, mischief 21, hurt 20, bad 13, trouble 10, sore 9, affliction 6, ill 5, adversity 4, favoured 3, harm 3, naught 3, noisome 2, grievous 2, sad 2, miscellaneous 34

Questions?

 

When it comes to chosing, God choose to kill, murder, steal, lie and encourage his people to do the same acts in the OT. So he not only created evil, but he also did evil things and promoted them.

 

While you ponder that, I'd like to ask you if the Bible is without contradictions? Are you one of those fundamentalists/literalists?

 

Sorry, God created all that exists. God created the ability of free thinking man and spiritual beings to chose to be evil, opposite of what he is. When the bible says he created evil – he created the something that choose to be evil. He didn’t make or design the evil that influences our existence. The choice was made long ago.

 

 

You’ll have to provide examples of murder and lie. I’ve not seen them in text. He most definitely encouraged his people to kill and rejoice in the spoils of war. And if you read revelation, that’s the theme. Mine is mine. He is the big kid on the block.

 

Well-intentioned men wrote the bible. Yes, there are many inconsistencies within it. Look at all the different versions and you’ll agree. In short, the bible is a written record and guide for us to know God. Don’t linger on any one phrase or version. The truth is in your heart.

[Garnet]

Quick,

 

Just curious. Is punishment by God intended to reform or destroy?

[Quick]

He didn’t create evil. He allows free will. Choosing evil is up to the individual. Even you. You can react to stimuli in a number of ways. Yes, we are created in God’s image; jealous, angry, violent and willing to take revenge. What man isn’t the same?

 

God has no peers. He is THE JUDGE – the judge of all man’s judges. Many are imprisoned due to their lack of conformity to other men’s judgments. Crazy or enlightened? How many were burned at the stake for not following the doctrine or beliefs of the majority?

 

Ah, that old chestnut.

 

God gives us Free Will - but God is also the JUDGE.

 

If I told someone that they were free to do something I wanted them to, or to do something that I didn't want them to do - but that I'd punish them severely if they did the thing that I didn't want them to - wouldn't I be the most outrageous bully and not very loving? In what way would someone who does that be acting in such a way as to grant that person freedom?

 

If God is the judge of all our actions then the whole idea of Free Will is a farce and God has not given us freedom after all. Furthermore, if God punishes us with eternal hellfire for going against his will (a punishment equivalent to me saying that I'll chop off all your arms and legs if you go to the pub when I want you at home) then he cannot be a loving god

 

I just don't understand how christians can believe in two contradictory things - God gives us Free Will and God judges. If you command someone, if you gives someone orders and if they disobey them then you will punish them horribly - it can hardly be said that you are someone who gives them freedom to make whatever choice they wish!

 

Chestnut? Your daddy told you, this is the way it is under my roof. If you didn't do it his way - did he allow you to be your own judge?