40 replies to this topic

[HuaiDan]

So you believe in the supernatural/metaphysical?

[Jun]

Well you have asked us to share our thoughts, here's mine with some questions.

From that site -

Satanism is the path leading us away from the "creation of god" towards the divinity of one's own soul.

One's own "soul." You believe we have a "soul?"

Satanism is the only thing that makes life worth living.

I've heard Christians say that Christianity is the only thing that makes life worth living. Muslims say that Islam is the only thing that makes life worth living. Hindus say......................

Being Anti-cosmic Satanists, as we are, we know that we consist of body, soul/astral body and spirit/the black flame. Every time we die, the body and the astral body is killed and the cosmic prana/life-force these two bodies contain is being sucked back into cosmos being recycled in the cosmic circulation.

Er, sounds like it's based on Hindu belief there.

Where is this "soul?" Where does it travel to after death and how does it know where to go? And who has been there to witness it and came back to describe it?

Some black magicians are able, through the practice of vampirism, to program their astral bodies to feed upon the life-force of other living creatures after the death of their own physical body.

Vampirism, astral bodies, life-force, black magicians?

I'm sorry, I have trouble taking this seriously. Is this genuine?

No disrespect mean't towards you at all. It just sounds...well....like something from a sci-fi movie.

Edited by Jun, 09 August 2007 - 09:40 AM.

[HuaiDan]

They're not black magicians, that's not PC. They're African-American magicians.

[Grandpa Harley]

They're not black magicians, that's not PC. They're African-American magicians.

African-American Practitioners of Arcane Arts surely...

[Varokhar]

I'm sorry, I have trouble taking this seriously. Is this genuine?

It's genuine; lots of offshoot Satanic groups believe stuff like this. Some are even weirder. New religions are born (and modified) every day, it would seem.

Which is a good thing, as humans should modify their religions to conform to facts and their own personal needs. The problem is when religions are not modified as such, or are modified to still embrace bizarre shit that has no basis in reality.

Satanism as a rationalist philosophy is a fine thing. Satanism as a crazy form of spook-worship is another, and it's rife with the flaws that most other religions have. Especially the belligerent ones like Xianity, which this seems all too much like just an inverse of. Perpetuating more unprovable mythologies and questionable morals does nothing to further human evolution away from the problems caused by Xianity.

[Rev R]

Er, sounds like it's based on Hindu belief there.

Hinduism via Theosophy I'll wager.

[Robbobrob]

the whole secret knowledge thing turns me off, especially when they make you pay for it.

I was asked to join an Aleister Crowley secret society once. Sounded like fun, but the money was what they were really after.

At least with mainstream religion, the reason to hand over your money to them is clear, without them you can't be saved. Might be a false reason, but at least it is out there in the open.

I would not want to go through all the levels of some group just to find a really dumb reason at the end of the trials.

[Jun]

Which is a good thing, as humans should modify their religions to conform to facts and their own personal needs.

Clearly this form of LaVey's invention does not conform to reality. Vampires and astral bodies? Come on!

[Grandpa Harley]

Anything after 1890 is either Thelemic or Theosophical.

Blavatsky was in influence on both Mahatma Gandhi and Adolph Hitler... Crowley informed Spare, Gardener and Le Vey...

Basically you can guess either or both and be pretty well certain of being right if it's a non-christian western mystic tradition.

[Grandpa Harley]

I have a bit of a soft spot for Crowley, the old bugger. some of his climbing manuals of the alps are still the standard reference.

[Grandpa Harley]

Which is a good thing, as humans should modify their religions to conform to facts and their own personal needs.

Clearly this form of LaVey's invention does not conform to reality. Vampires and astral bodies? Come on!

that's Austin Osman Spare and his 'spiritual' descendents (Phil Hine being one of the better known figures in the UK 'Chaos Magick' (sic) scene... Jack Parsons is probably one of the more famous American ones)

[Grandpa Harley]

BTW... Prasons was a great influence on a certain L. Ron Hubbard...

I have an near autistic passion for patterns and relationships Sorry

[Rev R]

and an extraordinary talent for the afterthought.

[HuaiDan]

BTW... Prasons was a great influence on a certain L. Ron Hubbard...

I have an near autistic passion for patterns and relationships Sorry

Hence Tom Cruise and John Travolta would be more into this kind of thing?

[Varokhar]

LaVey wrote once that Crowley seemed to have his tongue jammed firmly in his cheek, whilst his followers read esoteric meaning into his every word. To a degree, LaVey is the same; any good student of his style of Satanism has to see the humor inherent in and necessary to it, or else they've missed the boat by a mile

When you start going on about vampires being real and being locked in a mystical war against The Ten Cosmic Gods, you've managed to miss both the boat and its wake

[מה טבו]

Clearly this form of LaVey's invention does not conform to reality. Vampires and astral bodies? Come on! Wendycrazy.gif

Eh - don't blame LaVey for this one.

It's been a while since I read the Satanic Bible, but I don't remember anything in LaVey's writing about astral bodies. The closest he came to talking about vampires was describing "psychic vampires" - people who just suck the energy out of you.

LaVey was very much an atheist. He did not believe in an afterlife or in any form of reincarnation, and his Satanism is definitely not theistic. One of his more poetic statements in the SB is "here is our Heaven... here is our Hell." His whole thing with Satanic ritual was theatre, spectacle, chicanery, and catharsis. He advised people to temporarily suspend disbelief during the rituals to create a sort of (as he put it) "intellectual decompression chamber," but he was careful to emphasize repeatedly that there was no real Satan. His idea with Black Masses and Satanic Curses was basically just to scare people who really did believe in a Satan. He saw that side of religion as an exploitable weakness in human psychology.

LaVey was himself obviously a product of Christian America, and his Satanism does demonstrate a classic rebellion against Christian doctrine. I like his rationalism, and his insights into human behavior are interesting, but ultimately, I found his anger and lack of concern for social justice to be turnoffs. As an original thinker though, I still have some respect for the guy.

The Satanic Bible is one of those books that everyone should read at least once. It's an interesting book with a distinct perspective, but IMHO, really should have been edited a bit more before publication. (The frequently changing writing style is kind of annoying.)

[Varokhar]

Eh - don't blame LaVey for this one.

I'm sure Jun isn't. Rather, he's blaming the OP's silly take on what LaVey created, I believe.

One of his more poetic statements in the SB is "here is our Heaven... here is our Hell."

Always love to hear that line

His whole thing with Satanic ritual was theatre, spectacle, chicanery, and catharsis. He advised people to temporarily suspend disbelief during the rituals to create a sort of (as he put it) "intellectual decompression chamber," but he was careful to emphasize repeatedly that there was no real Satan.

Very true. Satanism is just down-to-earth philosophy and psychology dressed up with pretty black ribbons. A little silly at times in the ritual department, but that's the disposable element of Satanism. The rationalist ethics are the meat and potatoes of it.

LaVey was himself obviously a product of Christian America, and his Satanism does demonstrate a classic rebellion against Christian doctrine. I like his rationalism, and his insights into human behavior are interesting, but ultimately, I found his anger and lack of concern for social justice to be turnoffs. As an original thinker though, I still have some respect for the guy.

Agreed; Satanism isn't without its flaws and is insufficient as a stand-alone belief, although I consider it philosophically an indispensable add-on to anyone's worldview. Usually, though, the flaws are only in what LaVey failed to include in Satanism's moral skeleton, such as the benefits of moderation or harmonious conduct or altruism.

Satanism is a good reminder to the individual of ethical concepts that are both natural and necessary for humans to hold, but it does drop the ball in a few places. Sadly, many Satanists use Satanism to justify their own selfishness and rudeness towards people, and I've dealt with more than a few Satanists who exemplify the society of assholes that an unmindful application of Satanic principles can lead to.

The Satanic Bible is one of those books that everyone should read at least once. It's an interesting book with a distinct perspective, but IMHO, really should have been edited a bit more before publication. (The frequently changing writing style is kind of annoying.)

Yes, and it wouldn't have hurt LaVey to give credit to Ragnar Redbeard also, even though LaVey's book is more fun to read than "Might is Right."

[Grandpa Harley]

TBH, LaVey, much like Crowley, mostly did this sort of thing for two reasons

1) To shock
2) To get laid.

[Grandpa Harley]

and an extraordinary talent for the afterthought.

If you've got it, flaunt it, big boy!