NightWanderer Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 We. Do. Not. Want. To. Be. Like. You. You are not the droids we're looking for. You are not exhibiting traits that we want to emulate. Rather, you personify many damaging behaviours and beliefs that we've already discarded. A million times yes to this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emme Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Yes! I read it 7 years ago and felt comforted and it still is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Logic doesn't work on Christians. There is a good reason to take apart Christian dogma with the sledge hammer of logic but that exercise is for the benefit of newly deconverted. But don't waste your time trying to change the mind of a Christian. Christianity has anticipated that move and already warned it's sheep against that threat. They have to abandon faith before they will listen to logic. They may have to and that is said that both logic and faith cannot exist in their lives. I can tell you that in many ways science in the art of faith not religion. Religion expect you to have faith with the promise of better later maybe if you meet the criteria but most likely you are getting spanked instead. Science does not require faith but no scientist walks around without it. It is the thing that says "I can work hard and keep pressing forward, I don't know if I will ever have any right answers but I have faith that in the long run the work I do and others after me will indeed yield answers even if not those answers we thought to find at first". What most christians are doing is WISHING not "faith". They wish upon things they can never prove in any logical fashion. They wish that they had better answers but are brainwashed into thinking that "faith" is blind and ignorant. Neither of those things are true of faith and never have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Awesome thread. I seriously don't know why I haven't read it before today. My reaction to the OP is this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Great post indeed. Ever since becoming an ex c I am so annoyed by the attitude of Christians. I don't want to be.. But when reading posts on Facebook or hearing people talk about Gods will in their life etc... I just feel like inserting my opinion or saying something a bit snarky. Then I look back, and remember feeling like they did and wanting everyone to feel the same way.. Barf. I don't want to bust anyone's Christian bubble though... Especially if they are happy that way, I just don't buy that shiet anymore. I am so thankful for this site and all the fellow exc's here. Has been a breath of fresh, logical, and rational fresh air!! Thanks guys!!! You know you really should want to burst their bubble. This is my opinion and only mine for this purpose: Religion cost us 800 years of exploration and science. We would already be colonizing space now if not for the middle ages and scientific repression for a very long time. You can thank men for that of course but men that used religion as their tool of control and tyrany. It is still being done today but thankfully medicine and science have started to move again in the last 200 years. I know this is a large generalization but seriously we lost out a lot of good time over religion primarly the god of christianity. I guess I am just thankful I can try and talk them out of it and not go to jail, or get murdered (or at least a small chance) in the USA over me reverse ministering to the lost and jaded. In my preaching there are no verses, parables, stories, or dieties. There are people and places all human all doing our thing by the sweat of OUR labor not some fake dude in space someplace. It is more logical in many ways that aliens seeded their own dna here long ago in the primordial OOZE and it slowly became us. I would sooner believe that than some magic dude in sky spoke us into existense. What a load of shit, and I shouldn't try and talk them out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Great speech, although I hate to burst your bubble, but I didn't come here to SAVE nor CONVERT anyone. It would be a waste of my precious time and energy. The members on this site are aware of the Bible, been Christians, and decided to walk away, you have made the choice, so what is it to me? I only came here to read the forums and obtain information for myself. I started in the chat room the first night I was approved and met with such hostility it was down right funny. I never said anything about saving nor converting, but this member cursed me and called me a liar. Yes, I believe almost all of the things you mentioned, but I have seen with my own eyes many supernatural occurrences and have strong faith. I didn't come here to mock nor judge, I came here to educate myself. Do you know there are more Christians in name only and have a lack of faith, then true Christians? I am only looking for heartfelt conversation with the members here as to what was the turning point for them to leave Christianity. Thank you. Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Great speech, although I hate to burst your bubble, but I didn't come here to SAVE nor CONVERT anyone. It would be a waste of my precious time and energy. The members on this site are aware of the Bible, been Christians, and decided to walk away, you have made the choice, so what is it to me? I only came here to read the forums and obtain information for myself. I started in the chat room the first night I was approved and met with such hostility it was down right funny. I never said anything about saving nor converting, but this member cursed me and called me a liar. Yes, I believe almost all of the things you mentioned, but I have seen with my own eyes many supernatural occurrences and have strong faith. I didn't come here to mock nor judge, I came here to educate myself. Do you know there are more Christians in name only and have a lack of faith, then true Christians? I am only looking for heartfelt conversation with the members here as to what was the turning point for them to leave Christianity. Thank you. Debbie what are these supernatural occurrences you speak of? Is there proof other than your word? If not I wouldn't bother thinking people will just accept what you say. Sorry that anyone was an ass. I don't know you and would not call anyone a liar without material proof. As I can see here there is no way to determine that. Good luck and I understand you having your own beliefs just don't forget where you are. This is not the pro religion pro christian forum it is a place that ex christians and people like me who never believed at all congregate and talk. Join us in that or not it is up to you but if you simply and constantly disagree based on religion or god don't expect that to be met with anything but incredulous behavior for something most of us probably find a very bad joke that keeps getting played on the world. Not really sure how with one post at the time of me writing this you could have really gotten into any discussion that would lead you to make these statements here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Actually I was commenting on webmdave's orginal post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Actually I was commenting on webmdave's orginal post. You make this statement: Yes, I believe almost all of the things you mentioned, but I have seen with my own eyes many supernatural occurrences and have strong faith. Sorry if I took it out of context but I see no quote or link to anything else so I might have missed it. Sure sounds like you are talking about yourself here. I am simply asking what these occurrences were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have seen Christ at 23 years old, a demon at 36 years old, and now anoint houses with demonic oppression. A door sail across the room off the hinges and no one there. These are but a few things and no I have no proof, other than I witnessed these things first hand. I speak for myself when I say these things showed me there are two sides of a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 oooookay then I guess that settles it folks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 oooookay then I guess that settles it folks! Yes it does as in I am just gonna keep to my opinions and not both responding to that sort of lack of reason and logic. Personal experience alone is not proof of anything. In this case without proof I would say well I won't say because it isn't nice and no one gave me a reason to not be nice. Let us just say that I disagree for reasons other than my personal experience with the reasons that are only personal experience from anyone stating them. Proof or it mine as well didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Have you ever seen a million dollars? Just because you haven't, does that mean it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Have you ever seen a million dollars? Just because you haven't, does that mean it doesn't exist. nice argument. totally fallacious but nice try. and yes I have seen it. I have seen what it can buy as well. I am sitting here next to 3 million dollars in routers right now and an hour ago was in a 200 million dollar data center? Just because others have not seen it is not a valid argument. Proof is proof your words are not that without something more to back them with. They are your opinions present them as such or don't expect people to treat you as though you are being rational. Which at this point you are clearly not. By the way a million dollars in 100$ is not really as much as people think it is once they see it. Any idiot can look at a picture of that much on the internet. Is there a picture of that demon you saw anyplace I can look at? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. Most Christians would think you are crazy, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. Only to read the testimony eh? Ok then... makes claims then defends them... but did it all just while reading. I guess that is /thread and I should just stop opening this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Pictures would not be proof either. I had at one time a picture of a house with demonic writings and symbols on it including a hazy figure on the porch. It was not viewed as proof. I got comments that the pixels were messed up in the camera and it's fake because I could have added these things from photo shop. Even if I had pictures, it would not be proof, because people need to see it to believe it and then I'm quite sure they still would not believe anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelus5370 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Hope you all have a nice day and thanks for the stimulating conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Hope you all have a nice day and thanks for the stimulating conversation. I would thank you in return but all you did was act like everyone else that has a similar belief system to your own which is not even clear considering the contradictory nature of all of your posts. Thank you for nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. I've experienced a few "supernatural" things myself, and have several family members who claim similar experiences. However, I've still deconverted. There are any number of logical and rational reasons behind what I, at the time, might have felt was supernatural. Or it may very well be "supernatural" since much of our physical world is still a mystery. The fact that I experienced things outside of my scope of rational capacity at the time does not "prove" the existence of what I thought it was ultimately and for everyone. An experience might be real, but that doesn't mean that the explanation that you give that experience is real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. Then the Ex-Christian testimonies (or extimonies) is probably the actual forum where you'd get the information you are looking for. Not so much in the Rants and Replies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, I know you think I'm crazy, but I am not here to prove these things are real, you asked. I am only here to read testimony on why people leave the faith. I've experienced a few "supernatural" things myself, and have several family members who claim similar experiences. However, I've still deconverted. There are any number of logical and rational reasons behind what I, at the time, might have felt was supernatural. Or it may very well be "supernatural" since much of our physical world is still a mystery. The fact that I experienced things outside of my scope of rational capacity at the time does not "prove" the existence of what I thought it was ultimately and for everyone. An experience might be real, but that doesn't mean that the explanation that you give that experience is real. Subjective experience is still subjective no matter how you slice it. He came here as though his subjective experience is proof of something. It is it is proof that he has an opinion about the physical world around him (or her I can't say for sure). Opinions are great. Especially when they are used as such. He made a claim I asked for proof. I hear what you are saying but just because 90% of people believe in god(s) doesn't mean I should without proof. As I see it what tiny proofs exists strongly support the idea there is not now and never has been god(s) out there and the supernatural is just something we have yet to explain as so many things such as the shape of the earth were at one point unexplained and shrouded in mystery and the "supernatural". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralet Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Have you ever seen a million dollars? Just because you haven't, does that mean it doesn't exist. Have you seen Zeus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Subjective experience is still subjective no matter how you slice it. He came here as though his subjective experience is proof of something. It is it is proof that he has an opinion about the physical world around him (or her I can't say for sure). Opinions are great. Especially when they are used as such. He made a claim I asked for proof. I hear what you are saying but just because 90% of people believe in god(s) doesn't mean I should without proof. As I see it what tiny proofs exists strongly support the idea there is not now and never has been god(s) out there and the supernatural is just something we have yet to explain as so many things such as the shape of the earth were at one point unexplained and shrouded in mystery and the "supernatural". Yeah, I wasn't disputing that at all. Just the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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