Why The Hate To Pagans?

[LastKing]

Here a little story that happen to me.. This was during when I was Christian and trying to learn as much about the religon as possibal. Anyway a girl came to a gruope of christains I was hanging out with at the time. She was pagan but openly respect Christianty, so much that she took some Jesus teachings. Naturaly most of the other christian condemded her saying she needed to reject the "satanic" religon. I came to her deffecnce and got scoffed at to but I belived I had done right thing. However when I reported this to my Christian Counsler she told me this "The Jews Worship God, The Muslims Worship God and The Hindus Worship God. But the Pagan are worshiping Satan." She said this with smile on her face. When I confronted her about this statment I got "I dont hate Pagans. Is just that they are worshiping that other God world which is Satan" BS! What is that supposed to mean? Before that I was constelny told by her other Christains from out side my church that they were evil. Its was up to this point things started to change. I started talking to them, reading about what they belive and go figure I ended up liking them more then Christainty. There a few thing that are, IMO, a little goofy but Christians have no right to condem those things. Why is prayer any better then Magic? Why is a God better then a Goddess? Also my counlser was open minded when it came Ito slam and Hinduism. She always taught me that it was wrong to give in to hate to these people but for some reason she could not follow her own advice when it came to these people. Why do Christian still hate Pagans/Wiccan? I know the answer the lies in history but that not what I am talking about. Pagans really are the Christians puching bag and they yet dont ask why. Why do we hate and fear these people who have done nothing to us? Do they really worship evil? Dose this not go aganist the Love your nighbore stuff Jesus tuaght? Acording to them, as long find the right quotes in the bible you can make it look like God Hates the guy you Hate. I just dont neverunderstood this. Just Why keep it up?

[PaulQ]

It's quite simple, really. Christianity stole a lot from Paganism, and they wouldn't want people to figure out that all the good stuff in Christianity actually came from Pagan traditions. All of the VERY IMPORTANT Christian holidays, including Easter and Christmas, were stolen from the Pagans. Problem is, people continue celebrate these important holidays with elements of Paganism intact. Why else do we decorate eggs at Easter, or decorate an evergreen tree at Christmas? Yes, these have roots in Paganism; much deeper than Christianity. The evergreen tree, the holly and the ivy make so much more sense in the Pagan traditions than they do in the Christian one. Same with decorating the eggs; they don't nail to a cross very well, decorated or not.

 

Modern-day Christianity would not do well if the believers actually investigated the Pagan roots of their rites and rituals; for if they did, they would surely convert if they still believed. Hence, just make Paganism evil, and hope the sheep never find out the truth.

[Jedah]

It's quite simple, really. Christianity stole a lot from Paganism, and they wouldn't want people to figure out that all the good stuff in Christianity actually came from Pagan traditions. All of the VERY IMPORTANT Christian holidays, including Easter and Christmas, were stolen from the Pagans. Problem is, people continue celebrate these important holidays with elements of Paganism intact. Why else do we decorate eggs at Easter, or decorate an evergreen tree at Christmas? Yes, these have roots in Paganism; much deeper than Christianity. The evergreen tree, the holly and the ivy make so much more sense in the Pagan traditions than they do in the Christian one. Same with decorating the eggs; they don't nail to a cross very well, decorated or not.

 

Modern-day Christianity would not do well if the believers actually investigated the Pagan roots of their rites and rituals; for if they did, they would surely convert if they still believed. Hence, just make Paganism evil, and hope the sheep never find out the truth.

 

There may be some truth to that, but I dont think its that intentional. Its probably more along the lines that they want it to be evil in a subconscious attempt to quell their amass of cognitive dissonence, so they make shit up and convince themselves it is true. At least that makes sense from the point of the religious leaders.

 

As for the sheeple flock I think the hate for paganism comes right down to plain old willful ignorance. Every Christian I have met that was against paganism, dubbed Harry Potter as evil, and other such nonsense knew absolutely jack shit about Wicca or other forms of pagan practice...and instead just seamed to repeat the same stuff from chick tracts. They never actually look into it on their own to see if what their pastor told them about the occult is true, because they already want to believe it.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I think their justification comes from Paul's writing (1 Cor. 10:20) "...the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons."

 

Thus religions other than Christianity are seen as devil worship, regardless of what the religions say they worship. Keep in mind that there were lots of religions during Paul's time, and many idols and temples. The term "pagan" wasn't a particular religion, but was a generic term for those that live out in the country and worship whoever or whatever as they see fit. The term heathen is very similar, those that live among the heath plants (out in the country). Today the term pagan has more specific meaning, though it is still pretty free form.

 

So even if someone honors or worships nature, the Bible teaches Christians to see this as worshiping demons. This gets equated with worshiping the devil, as though they were Satanists. This is how witches got equated with devil worshipers even though they are not. So Christians tend to react to witches and pagans as very spooky and dangerous. This always struck me as odd, since Christians are supposed to believe that they have God living in them. Shouldn't that make them invincible? I certainly thought so when I was a believer.

 

Sometimes groups of teenage wannabe Satanists would come to a local church in their black robes and walk around the church cursing it. The pastor would usually call the cops. So much for God...

[Thurisaz]

Just as a sidenote, have a look at what was probably the most important morontheist role model for saaataan right here.

 

(Of course the entire answer will be more complicated than this single sentence, but you get what I mean )

[florduh]

The early church instilled a hatred of Paganism because they were in competition with them.

 

I think modern day Christians are mostly unaware of church history and its Pagan roots. They hate Pagans for the usual reasons people hate something - fear and a lack of understanding.

[Robbobrob]

The early church instilled a hatred of Paganism because they were in competition with them.

 

I think modern day Christians are mostly unaware of church history and its Pagan roots. They hate Pagans for the usual reasons people hate something - fear and a lack of understanding.

Plus that Pagans were, back in the early christian church days, notoriously hard to convert....who wanted to give up a life of happiness and connection to nature for the "hope" of an afterlife of happiness. Pagans had it in the here and now, and Christians have hated that about them ever since.

[Trike]

What Florduh said. It bothers me how in Christian circles even today "Pagan" is a generic term meaning "no one of us". After a class one day I was explaining to some girl why I was going to take a nap over chapel break instead of chapel and I labeled myself an apostate and an atheist. She replied with "Oh, a Pagan?" Then I tried to explain how Paganism was something completely different

[Steel]

It's quite simple, really. Christianity stole a lot from Paganism...

 

 

http://www.pocm.info/

[Amethyst]

It's generally ignorance.

 

Christians don't realize how much of Paganism their religion absorbed in order to become popular. Also the whole "witchcraft" = Satanism thing...Christians automatically assume Pagans worship Satan because that's what they have been told by their churches and Christian books.

 

Again, ignorance.

[Vomit Comet]

When I was still a Christian I always thought they were smug and self-righteous, thinking they were all cool and rebellious cutting-edge pioneers. I remember wanting to barf when that movie 'the Craft' came out back in 1995, IIRC. I realize now that this was largely while I was a teenager, and they were basically going through their rebellious 'gothic' phase. I guess those who don't grow out of it by the time they're done with college are the true blue pagans? It sure does seem to attract a lot of teenage poseurs, I'd say. It certainly seemed so when I was in high school. I swear to God half of everyone I knew claimed to be a Wiccan or something, which basically means they wore clunky black shoes and bought some phony book of spells and some incense at Hot Topic.

 

Also, when I was a fundamentalist, I used to respect the fundie pagans (like the Druidic Groves that are all hardcore and anal about it) who try to do things exactly like they were done 2,000 years ago, even though we know very little. I had a lot of disdain for the neo-pagans who more resembled Eastern pantheists like Taoists or something, and I viewed Wicca as being a made-up religion. I guess as a fundie I was able to identify with other fundies, while despising the liberals. Now I'm indifferent as to how anyone practices their paganism. I respect anyone that does a shitload of homework about what they're into, and understands the historic implications of things regardless of how "postmodern" they're getting with it, rather than just getting into it to be cool and different.

 

Well, I read Neal Gaiman's "American Gods" recently. Excellent fucking book. One of my favorite parts was where Mr. Wednesday (a.k.a. Odin) was making fun of the girl at the coffee shop in San Francisco, mocking her neo-paganism in order to make a point to Eostre (who was living in Haight-Ashbury). He said to Eostre (paraphrased) "we'll go around San Francisco -- which is full of Wiccans and neo-pagans -- and ask 500 people, and for every 100 people who don't even know your name, I'll get to sleep with you." She broke down in tears, realizing he was right. Hee-larious!

[woodsmoke]

I viewed Wicca as being a made-up religion.

To be fair, that's essentially what it is. Gardner created the religion virtually whole-cloth from his imagination and pop culture understanding of what pagans used to be. Which isn't necessarily to say it's wholly without worth, but most self-proclaimed Wiccans really are tools.

 

On a slightly related side-note, WWS is the bestest website ever.

[hereticzero]

'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live ...' Exodus 22:18. This is the mantra used to burn witches in Africa today and in the American colonies in the 1600s. Christians believe Satanists are in combat with God over souls. I doubt Satanism and many occult groups would even exist if it were not for xitanity. What xtians call 'pagans' were normal religious groups at one time. I'd rather be counted among the pagans, personally.

[ShadowWolf]

It all goes back to when the church ruled the earth, and to have anything to do with witchcraft/magic was to be a witch and to be in alliance with the Devil. And when an already hateful religion hears of another religion calling it's followers "witches" it surely must be the same devil worshiping witches from the dark ages.

[hereticzero]

Here is an interesting read : http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/mm/index.htm

 

Malleus Maleficarum (1486)

translated by Montague Summers [1928]

 

This is the best known (i.e., the most infamous) of the witch-hunt manuals. Written in Latin, the Malleus was first submitted to the University of Cologne on May 9th, 1487. The title is translated as "The Hammer of Witches". Written by James Sprenger and Henry Kramer (of which little is known), the Malleus remained in use for three hundred years. It had tremendous influence in the witch trials in England and on the continent. This translation is in the public domain.

 

There is much more to the above manual at their website plus many more books you may have never heard of.

[florduh]

I viewed Wicca as being a made-up religion.

 

As far as I know, they're ALL made-up. The good thing about Wicca is that it wasn't created to be an institution of control over the masses.

[micksherlock]

It's quite simple, really. Christianity stole a lot from Paganism, and they wouldn't want people to figure out that all the good stuff in Christianity actually came from Pagan traditions. All of the VERY IMPORTANT Christian holidays, including Easter and Christmas, were stolen from the Pagans. Problem is, people continue celebrate these important holidays with elements of Paganism intact. Why else do we decorate eggs at Easter, or decorate an evergreen tree at Christmas? Yes, these have roots in Paganism; much deeper than Christianity. The evergreen tree, the holly and the ivy make so much more sense in the Pagan traditions than they do in the Christian one. Same with decorating the eggs; they don't nail to a cross very well, decorated or not.

 

Modern-day Christianity would not do well if the believers actually investigated the Pagan roots of their rites and rituals; for if they did, they would surely convert if they still believed. Hence, just make Paganism evil, and hope the sheep never find out the truth.

 

I agree 100%.

[Kaiser01]

I really think its just the way the name sounds to them, i mean christians have so little knowlege of other religions that i really think its just the way the name Pagan sounds in our american society. They dont understand it and it sounds weird to them so the only obvious answer is SATAN!

 

Once i had a sunday shcool teacher ask me is Muslims where the ones who worshiped Budha.

 

Their not knowlegable most of the time to have any other reason.

[micksherlock]

'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live ...' Exodus 22:18. This is the mantra used to burn witches in Africa today and in the American colonies in the 1600s. Christians believe Satanists are in combat with God over souls. I doubt Satanism and many occult groups would even exist if it were not for xitanity. What xtians call 'pagans' were normal religious groups at one time. I'd rather be counted among the pagans, personally.

 

Hey Heretic,

 

I would have to strongly agree with you here!

[Weetie]

I think another reason they fear Pagans is the pagan/Wiccan religions are not authoritarian or dogmatic. They're approach to morality seems to be "An ye harm none, do as ye will." Don't know if I've got the quote right, but basically they let their practitioners work out their own moral and behavioral standards, as long as they try to not be assholes to other people. In all the abrahamic faiths, and Hinduism, morals are dictated from above. I think they're really scared by the notion that people don't need God to figure out how to behave.

[RankStranger]

Seeings how I'm essentially a christian who doens't believe in god (as Antlerman correctly observed once), I have a hard time believing that 'pagans' really take their faith seriously. It looks more like role-playing to me. I mean, do that actually believe that these various fluff-bunny gods exist? Or are they just entertaining a fun idea?

 

That said, I've never met a pagan that I didn't like. They're definitely more interesting company than christians.

[midniterider]

The early church instilled a hatred of Paganism because they were in competition with them.

 

I think modern day Christians are mostly unaware of church history and its Pagan roots. They hate Pagans for the usual reasons people hate something - fear and a lack of understanding.

 

Xians are rules followers. They are told to hate pagans so they do.

[midniterider]

Seeings how I'm essentially a christian who doens't believe in god (as Antlerman correctly observed once), I have a hard time believing that 'pagans' really take their faith seriously. It looks more like role-playing to me. I mean, do that actually believe that these various fluff-bunny gods exist? Or are they just entertaining a fun idea?

 

That said, I've never met a pagan that I didn't like. They're definitely more interesting company than christians.

 

Pagans dont necessarily have a rigid structure to follow so they don't have to take their faith seriously, although many do. If there is no eternal hell to burn in for not following doctrine then I dont have to be a serious (and fearful) doctrine follower. :-) A pagan rolls his own belief system. Xians hate independent thought. Xians need people to agree with them to bolster their confidence that the absurd shit they believe in is 'truth'. And if you dont agree, they bolster their confidence by calling you EVIL. Pagans dont give a shit what other people believe. It is ok for a pagan to change what he believes as he feels moved to do so. Paganism is not a fixed perspective.

 

Yes, I'm sure some pagans are entertaining a 'fun idea.' Because well, it IS a fun idea. Whereas xianity is not a fun idea. It is a fear and guilt based religion. I find paganism refreshing because I dont have to take it seriously. I can take it any ole way I want. I might believe in spirits one day, be an atheist tomorrow and completely ignore it altogether the rest of the week. No rules.

[♦ ficino ♦]

I agree with Fuego - Christians are influenced by Paul when they say that pagans worship the devil. I have to chuckle over what your counselor said about Hindus worshipping God and pagans worshipping the devil. Hinduism is the closest thing remaining in the world to ancient Greek and Roman paganism. Hinduism has something like 300 million gods. I have a good friend who is Hindu and is a professor and teaches both philosophy and religion. He is fond of contrasting the monotheism of the Abrahamic religions to polytheism in Hinduism. he argues that hinduism explains reality better because in fact we see and experience many forces, sometimes in harmony, sometimes in conflict, in the world, and yet there is one world, as in Hinduism all the gods can by sophisticated believers be seen as aspects of one Being. The same was true in ancient Greek thought for the more philosophical types.

 

Hinduism and ancient paganism are also similar in that they are not primarily religions of creed but of practice - ritual and action, all the way from the individual and family up to the whole community. Traditionally, people don't go to Hindu temples to hear sermons. They go to practice their devotions and make sacrifices, as the ancient pagans did. Then there are common rituals and festivals for the whole community, which bind everyone together.

 

The word pagan is interesting because literally it means "person from the countryside," the "pagus." the word gives insight into a cultural milieu of the late Roman empire, when Christianity was spreading outward from urban centers into the countryside, where the people were more traditional and clung to the practices of their ancestors toward the ancient gods (plus ancestor worship).

 

I agree that modern paganism is a construct. It's no longer a living tradition. But in India it is, under the name Hinduism.

[Will02]

I have a hard time believing that 'pagans' really take their faith seriously. It looks more like role-playing to me. I mean, do that actually believe that these various fluff-bunny gods exist? Or are they just entertaining a fun idea?

 

It really varies person to person. Some people start/join covens and go all-out with special ceremonial robes, make their own athames from scratch, and do ritual stuff on Samhain/Beltane and the other important days. Other people just keep things low-key and only casually identify with it. There's also the whole range in-between.

 

I consider myself atheist but I do have a fondness for pagan stuff. I don't believe in a literal God/Goddess, I simply regard them to be symbolic personifications of nature. On the various days, I may take a few minutes to reflect on the changing seasons but I don't actually go out and do a ceremony of any kind. I used to be more into it but I’ve toned it down a bit lately. Paganism appeals to me because I can take the parts I want and leave the rest of it... it's way better than the all-or-nothing dogmatic approach of Xianity.