spamandham Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Define knowledgeable. I don't choose to not believe, I cannot because it doesn't make any sense. Do you believe in Santa? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's an asantaist. He's going to the South Pole for his willfil refusal to believe in Santa. Baby Santa is crying right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 OMG, I can't do this any longer.....I'm laughing so hard, and trying to think of things to say, but it's impossible for me to be this dumb. It's me, Asimov. See, now you pulled me in to. I was on vacation and missed all the fun. I was wondering how the hell LoT kept getting smarter and smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 You did a good job debating!~ LMAO He had me at hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dario Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hey all, sorry about the late post. I know I said I would post monday, but I've been too busy lately to even study up on my position. I know a couple of you gave information on pagan religions, so I'll try to read those and let you know what I think. Thanks again for being patient. "Hi Ho the" Dario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dario Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hi Dario..... I know you can't come until Monday, but if you get a chance to read here this weekend, check out these link: Pagen Origins of the Christ Myth <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Panther, I checked out the website that you gave me. The writer definitely gave a lot of accusations about Christianity originating from other pagan religions, but he failed to give proof on it. He had a link to "The Jesus Mysteries" where he got most of his info, but there wasn't any information on it. I typed in Pagan religions compared to Christianity on a search engine and it gave more information saying why Christianity didn't come from other pagan religions. I will admit however, that most of those sites are Christian sites, but they do have quotes from secular writers. Anyway, here is one site I went to that kind of talks about The Jesus Mysteries: http://faithcommons.org/node/206 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Anyway, here is one site I went to that kind of talks about The Jesus Mysteries: http://faithcommons.org/node/206 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have to say, I'm not at all impressed with the level of argument used in this link. It basically dismisses the conicidence of Christmas and Easter with pagan celebrations simply because they aren't in the Bible, totally neglecting the fact that they would not have been incorporated into Christian culture if they truly were foreign traditions. Further, it simply hand waves Easter away and concentrates on Passover, without addressing the obvious question, "why does passover coincide with the vernal equinox"? The article also hand waves away the similarities between Jesus and Osiris/Dionysus with the argument "I've never seen these similarities". And it hand waves away the siginificance of the water to wine trick and how Dionysus is the god of wine simply by claiming that there's more to the gospel of John than wine - no kidding, but that doesn't resolve the issue. The author can't seem to comprehend that their can be tell tale similarities without being exactly identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hey Panther, I checked out the website that you gave me. The writer definitely gave a lot of accusations about Christianity originating from other pagan religions, but he failed to give proof on it. He had a link to "The Jesus Mysteries" where he got most of his info, but there wasn't any information on it. Seriously, Dario, exactly WHAT evidence would you consider "valid"? I submit that no matter WHAT proofs are presented to you, you will find some reason to deny them. In the final analysis what you're doing is again forcing US to DISPROVE "God"/"Jesus". Not fair. Especially when our "proofs" are summarily dismissed by you as "unworthy". Face facts: You believe the bible, because you want to and you've been trained to believe it. ANYTHING else is to be instantly rejected. So what's the point in giving you link after link, proof after proof? You won't accept what they say. Fact of the matter is, early Christians such as Justin Martyr and Tertullian both recognized that "Christianity" was previously demonstrated in other world religions. Their argument? They claimed that Satan was capable of foresight! They said that the devil sought to confuse and thwart "God's" plan by sending false Christs into the world PRIOR to the arrival of "Jesus". Do you get it? Both Justin and Tertullian confirm that OTHER religions existed BEFORE "Christ" came on the scene AND they contained ALL the elements of Christianity! But rather than honestly admitting that the Christian religion is a ripoff, they try to claim that the devil is just a clever manipulator WHO KNEW THE PLAN OF GOD BEFORE GOD COULD EXECUTE IT! Hello! Give me a break! What a silly position! But that is how YOU and your kind are. You can't accept ANY truth given you. You MUST apply every dodge and hustle in an attempt to cover your weak position. As you do now. Get over it, Dario. The other religions were there first. Your Christ is nothing but a Johnny-come-lately pretender of preceeding "divine saviors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hey Panther, I checked out the website that you gave me. The writer definitely gave a lot of accusations about Christianity originating from other pagan religions, but he failed to give proof on it.Well one of the best evidences can be found in Christian documents. Church father Justin Martyr admitted that there Christ-like pagan saviors before Jesus, but his resolve was to say that Satan counterfeited those saviors in advance to confuse Christians. What this shows is that even the early Christians knew that these other pagan saviors came first, but the argument that they give is strained if not blatantly absurd. In fact, even a more recent author (might have been C.S. Lewis, but I have to check) said that the other pagan saviors that came before Christ were actually prophecies of Jesus, the one who is to come. But again, this is just special pleading, as a typical Christian answer is given which assumes Christ as a historical figure while dismissing other similar saviors from the same time or before. It's just special pleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hey Panther, I checked out the website that you gave me. The writer definitely gave a lot of accusations about Christianity originating from other pagan religions, but he failed to give proof on it. He had a link to "The Jesus Mysteries" where he got most of his info, but there wasn't any information on it. I typed in Pagan religions compared to Christianity on a search engine and it gave more information saying why Christianity didn't come from other pagan religions. I will admit however, that most of those sites are Christian sites, but they do have quotes from secular writers. Anyway, here is one site I went to that kind of talks about The Jesus Mysteries: http://faithcommons.org/node/206 It's known that there is similarities between Mithraism and Christianity, and the debate is rather who borrow from whom. But Mithraism has roots that are older, which causes some problems with who had what first. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm Even the Catholic Church admits the cross-over of rituals and concepts, but they claim that we don't know enough about Mithraism to conclude that the copying was done from M to C. And they claim further that the documents can't be validated, but simultaneous gladly approve other religious documents as valid. The secular evidences for Jesus even existed are very shaky, but is accepted without any discussion, while no documents are approved for Mithraism. It's easier to just accept that neither of them have a true version of reality, cosmology, the purpose or the reason of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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