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What Good Has Atheism Done?


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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

 

Atheism isn't a religion like Christianity and has no comparable institutional framework. It is not a system of beliefs but a simple statement on one issue of a belief that is entirely individualistic. A better question would be what have atheist individuals done to help the sick and poor.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

 

Atheism isn't a religion like Christianity and has no comparable institutional framework. It is not a system of beliefs but a simple statement on one issue of a belief that is entirely individualistic. A better question would be what have atheist individuals done to help the sick and poor.

 

Would you consider this a weakness in the atheistic worldview since it does not lead to a massive amount of good? Secondly I can't see why an atheist would want to sacrifice for his fellow man if this is all there is. If I was one i would live totally for myself since this is all there is and life is meaningless anyway in the ultimate sense.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Charity begins at home, and atheists are individually generous (e.g. Bill and Melissa Gates).

 

Really though, we should be talking about the things the church has fought. Like vaccines, anesthesia, anatomy studies, astronomy and stem cell research (and other aspects of genetics).

 

The final defeat of religion is called the Enlightenment. The Church gave us the Dark Ages.

 

For the church, it matters not that the life of man was poor, nasty, brutish, and short. All the better to get to heaven. The church objected to any health measure that would "interfere with God's Plan" thinking it would be better to die and go to heaven.

 

Thomas Edison was an atheist. You're typing on a computer. Why are you even asking this silly question?

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Would you consider this a weakness in the atheistic worldview since it does not lead to a massive amount of good?

 

Not really, Christianity itself doesn't lead to "a massive amount of good" but the charitable institutions and organizations that are built around it. Atheists participate in the same sort of activities just through means that aren't explicitly atheist, as charity and conversely violence are not related to the atheistic viewpoint it is only a statement on your belief in the existence of deities.

 

Secondly I can't see why an atheist would want to sacrifice for his fellow man if this is all there is. If I was one i would live totally for myself since this is all there is and life is meaningless anyway in the ultimate sense.

 

Well I suppose it's a good thing you are religious then ;) . May I ask how your religion or belief in God prompts you to sacrifice for others?

 

For myself I suppose I give and I sacrifice my own well being for others out of a sense of empathy and compassion. I recognize the similar positions of sorrow and grief we all experience and it moves me to do what I can to ameliorate it in others. I do this specifically because I believe this life is all we have (or at least all I can be sure of us having) so it behooves us to do what we can to make it bearable for everyone, not just ourselves.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Charity begins at home, and atheists are individually generous (e.g. Bill and Melissa Gates).

 

Really though, we should be talking about the things the church has fought. Like vaccines, anesthesia, anatomy studies, astronomy and stem cell research (and other aspects of genetics).

 

The final defeat of religion is called the Enlightenment. The Church gave us the Dark Ages.

 

For the church, it matters not that the life of man was poor, nasty, brutish, and short. All the better to get to heaven. The church objected to any health measure that would "interfere with God's Plan" thinking it would be better to die and go to heaven.

 

Thomas Edison was an atheist. You're typing on a computer. Why are you even asking this silly question?

Does Bill Gates claim to be an atheist?

The church was the one institution in the early centuries that stood up against all kinds of plagues by helping those who were sick. Most of the early scienctists were Christians and devoloped science from a Christian worldview. The church did not give us the Dark Ages but had other causes.

My question is not silly but one that needs to be discussed since all beliefs have consquences in the world. The atheistic worldview does not lead to charity and thats why we don't see atheistic institutions based on it.

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Also, treating charity as a contest totally devalues any good you have done. Why is it always about numbers and organizations with you people?

 

Well said, charity or good towards others can not be measured as such and to treat it as a contest shows ill motives.

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Would you consider this a weakness in the atheistic worldview since it does not lead to a massive amount of good?

 

Not really, Christianity itself doesn't lead to "a massive amount of good" but the charitable institutions and organizations that are built around it. Atheists participate in the same sort of activities just through means that aren't explicitly atheist, as charity and conversely violence are not related to the atheistic viewpoint it is only a statement on your belief in the existence of deities.

 

Secondly I can't see why an atheist would want to sacrifice for his fellow man if this is all there is. If I was one i would live totally for myself since this is all there is and life is meaningless anyway in the ultimate sense.

 

Well I suppose it's a good thing you are religious then ;) . May I ask how your religion or belief in God prompts you to sacrifice for others?

 

For myself I suppose I give and I sacrifice my own well being for others out of a sense of empathy and compassion. I recognize the similar positions of sorrow and grief we all experience and it moves me to do what I can to ameliorate it in others. I do this specifically because I believe this life is all we have (or at least all I can be sure of us having) so it behooves us to do what we can to make it bearable for everyone, not just ourselves.

I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is.

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The atheistic worldview does not lead to charity and thats why we don't see atheistic institutions based on it.

 

 

 

Would you like to get into a discussion about the real reason why Christians have/need institutions based on charity? Do you really want to go there?

Yes. Lets go there.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Charity begins at home, and atheists are individually generous (e.g. Bill and Melissa Gates).

 

Really though, we should be talking about the things the church has fought. Like vaccines, anesthesia, anatomy studies, astronomy and stem cell research (and other aspects of genetics).

 

The final defeat of religion is called the Enlightenment. The Church gave us the Dark Ages.

 

For the church, it matters not that the life of man was poor, nasty, brutish, and short. All the better to get to heaven. The church objected to any health measure that would "interfere with God's Plan" thinking it would be better to die and go to heaven.

 

Thomas Edison was an atheist. You're typing on a computer. Why are you even asking this silly question?

Does Bill Gates claim to be an atheist?

The church was the one institution in the early centuries that stood up against all kinds of plagues by helping those who were sick. Most of the early scienctists were Christians and devoloped science from a Christian worldview. The church did not give us the Dark Ages but had other causes.

My question is not silly but one that needs to be discussed since all beliefs have consquences in the world. The atheistic worldview does not lead to charity and thats why we don't see atheistic institutions based on it.

Please do some reading on the History of Medicine. I am a doctor, so this subject means a lot to me and your "lack of knowledge" about this doesn't make your assertion correct.

 

I mentioned several areas. THE CHURCH fought against advancement in each of these areas. If the scientists were "Christian" they nonetheless did not use religion to guide their research. Advances in every area have occurred despite the church, not because of it.

 

Yes Bill's an atheist, but it is not really important unless you can't imagine an atheist being generous.

 

There are few "atheistic institutions" because there is no need for us to associate. Politically, we are quite divergent.

 

Your ideas about generosity have no bearing on the existence of God. If you wish to think the Flying Spagetti Monster has ordered you go donate to charity, good for charity, but not an indication of the existence of the FSM (praise her holy noodles).

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Also, treating charity as a contest totally devalues any good you have done. Why is it always about numbers and organizations with you people?

 

Well said, charity or good towards others can not be measured as such and to treat it as a contest shows ill motives.

I'm not treating charity as a contest nor is this topic primarily about numbers and organizations but the outworking, the fruit of our different worldviews and how they impact the world. In the atheistic worldview i see no reason to do good if this life is all there is. It has no ulimate value.

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I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is.

 

Don't you feel a bit duplicitous knowing that you help others primarily to get a reward after you die? It's a bit like remaining at moral level of a child who only does what he is told because he expects a reward from his parents. I guess I can't fault the end result, but it seems like a weak morality to me.

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Also, treating charity as a contest totally devalues any good you have done. Why is it always about numbers and organizations with you people?

 

Well said, charity or good towards others can not be measured as such and to treat it as a contest shows ill motives.

I'm not treating charity as a contest nor is this topic primarily about numbers and organizations but the outworking, the fruit of our different worldviews and how they impact the world. In the atheistic worldview i see no reason to do good if this life is all there is. It has no ulimate value.

 

I have already told you that a person's atheism is irrelevant to his position on altruism or organized charity so it's pointless to try and link the two. As for ultimate value, who says there isn't any without the belief in God? Value is entirely subjective, we ascribe it to things on an individual basis. If you mean no ultimate reward, I suppose you are right there but somehow I am able to make myself operate with only the real consequences of this life.

 

If you cannot see how I and other people like me do this, I cannot help you there.

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I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is.

 

Really? Honestly? Your only interest in helping others is the reward you expect to get in heaven? And if that motivation were removed, basic compassion wouldn't hold any sway on you?

 

That's...fascinating, really. I can't decide if it's more likely that you're denying empathy to give your religion unwarranted credit for your actions...or if you're really just a little scary.

 

Either way, this is turning into a very interesting thread.

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Since, as many here have stated, atheism has nothing to do with lifestyle, perhaps a more pertinent discussion would be secularism vs Christianity. In that vein we can discuss democracy, human rights, civil rights, medicinal progress, scientific discovery and so forth.

 

Mother Teresa even had serious doubts at times that god existed and that there was another world after this one. It only caused her work even more with the sick and the poor because it became even more important to make life livable for them.

 

I will grant you that Christian inspired organizations have helped people, but they have also done great damage. The woes of Africa are due in part to missionaries damning the use of condoms, and instigating witch hunts all over again. Monarchies, Imperialism, Manifest Destiny all had roots in Christian doctrine of their times. It was god's will to save the heathens (or to nearly exterminate them in the case of the Native Americans). Secular organizations include Amnesty International and other human rights groups. But in the end its always human beings choosing to do humanitarian work, whatever their motives may be. And I think humanist/ secular based charity organizations are at least as effective as their religious counterparts. If we are really trying to compare the two that is.

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I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is.

 

I am an atheist and I sacrifice for others based on the fact that doing so will be of benefit to people I love or to the community in general.

 

I actually think my motivations are nobler than yours. You're just extending the idea of "give so you can get something in return" into your beliefs about the afterlife. My outlook looks at the needs of others and doesn't ask for anything in return.

 

My motivation, like I read in several comments on this post is empathy and compassion. A.) I have been hurt in the past. I have been lonely, isolated, without resources. I've been sad , depressed and friendless. I've seen the suffering of others going through their own particular brand of pain and I've felt for them. All of these collective experiences and observations allow me to feel for others and know that we all need to chip in and relieve the suffering of others. Therefore, I give and sacrifice for the greater good without asking for anything in return.

 

AND, B.) I don't believe in an afterlife.

 

Frankly, amazed, the two ideas don't intersect. A happens with no thought of B.

 

How does that happen? Because I'm human. That's what most humans do when given the opportunity.

 

Amazed, you've been told this now several ways from several different people.

 

May I ask you a question? Why don't you believe us?

 

I think you are letting your religion cloud the honest answers of human beings who have no reason to lie to you. That's the tragedy of religion. Despite whatever good they want to claim that they do, religions drive a wedge between the humanity of people and it's belief system. That is why religion, including the Christian religion, has also been guilty of so much atrocity and inhumanity through the ages.

 

I hope you will start listening to what people tell you. You are letting your religion make you deaf to the human beings around you.

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I'm not treating charity as a contest nor is this topic primarily about numbers and organizations but the outworking, the fruit of our different worldviews and how they impact the world. In the atheistic worldview i see no reason to do good if this life is all there is. It has no ulimate value.

 

Which just shows your ignorance of secular worldviews.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Doctors for peace

 

World Health Organization

 

UNICEF

 

Scandinavian countries with outreach programs to the poor in the east block. (70% atheist/agnostic population) (I think it was Denmark on the top of the list, and US is way-way-way down, this super-rich-fundamentalist-Christian-in-God-we-trust nation can't even outdo the poor socialist countries when it comes to charity.)

 

etc...

 

But really, the comparison is not fair. Christianity has been around for 2,000 years and had its time to prove itself. And not until the recent few hundred years did it manage to pull itself out of the gutter and self-pity and do something about the poor and helpless. While atheism has not been around as a "-ism" for very long time and haven't had the chance to prove enough. Wait 2,000 years and we'll talk.

 

On the other hand, atheism is not an institution or a religion, so being an atheist means that you're free from the shackles of religious bondage. It doesn't mean an atheist will become a better person or a worse person, he or she is just the same person as before.

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Amazed, you reeeaaaaalllllly don't want to poke these dogs. You're not amongst your church buddies and this group knows the bible and religious history quite well. You won't win, and if you're not interested in learning, then you're wasting your, and our, time.

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I'm not treating charity as a contest nor is this topic primarily about numbers and organizations but the outworking, the fruit of our different worldviews and how they impact the world. In the atheistic worldview i see no reason to do good if this life is all there is. It has no ulimate value.

Atheism is more like a lack of a specific category of worldviews. It's the non-believe in a religious worldview, but it doesn't mean it has a defined worldview in itself. Many different worldviews can arise from the atheist standpoint, not just one.

 

And why can't there be a value just because God doesn't exist?

 

Are you saying that your value is to be God's slave? What is your value? Can you explain your view of the meaning of live and what value life has? Please. Lets see if it makes sense or not.

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I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is.

Wow. That's interesting.

 

Basically you're admitting to be a self-centered arrogant prick who wouldn't give shit for other people unless God forced you to. That shows your true nature, doesn't it? I'm acting good to people because I want to, not because I have to. Who is the better person? The one who acts good because they are good, or the one who acts good because he has to please his master?

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You got a point Wilyfem, he is honest about his faults.

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If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family.

 

So with no imagined reward or punishment you would be too self-absorbed to care about the misery of your fellow human beings. Perhaps believing that the god of the Bible really exists keeps you from being a complete sociopath. Normal people don't need the stick and carrot to have empathy and altruistic motives.

 

Please bear in mind that atheism is not a religion, an organized movement, or a choice. It's a conclusion many people arrive at after considering, or especially experiencing, religion. It's a conclusion some reach after much prayer, study of the Bible, and an education in the physical sciences, history and psychology.

 

The church has historically had people who did good and others who did unspeakable evil. If your point is that belief in your god is a requirement to do good, you're beyond any rational discussion.

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Without Christianity much of the world's current problems wouldn't exist and there would be no need for things like the Christian Children's Fund.

 

Colonialists raped the third world via xian indoctrination, left them utterly dependent, taught them debilitating beliefs, etc... and now look at the mess they left behind.

 

Lack of belief is not an ideology. Ideology has done far more harm than good to the planet and Xian ideology is at the top of the list of harm doers. The OP shows an incredible naivete.

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Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Charity begins at home, and atheists are individually generous (e.g. Bill and Melissa Gates).

 

Really though, we should be talking about the things the church has fought. Like vaccines, anesthesia, anatomy studies, astronomy and stem cell research (and other aspects of genetics).

 

The final defeat of religion is called the Enlightenment. The Church gave us the Dark Ages.

 

For the church, it matters not that the life of man was poor, nasty, brutish, and short. All the better to get to heaven. The church objected to any health measure that would "interfere with God's Plan" thinking it would be better to die and go to heaven.

 

Thomas Edison was an atheist. You're typing on a computer. Why are you even asking this silly question?

Does Bill Gates claim to be an atheist?

The church was the one institution in the early centuries that stood up against all kinds of plagues by helping those who were sick. Most of the early scienctists were Christians and devoloped science from a Christian worldview. The church did not give us the Dark Ages but had other causes.

My question is not silly but one that needs to be discussed since all beliefs have consquences in the world. The atheistic worldview does not lead to charity and thats why we don't see atheistic institutions based on it.

Please do some reading on the History of Medicine. I am a doctor, so this subject means a lot to me and your "lack of knowledge" about this doesn't make your assertion correct.

 

I mentioned several areas. THE CHURCH fought against advancement in each of these areas. If the scientists were "Christian" they nonetheless did not use religion to guide their research. Advances in every area have occurred despite the church, not because of it.

 

Yes Bill's an atheist, but it is not really important unless you can't imagine an atheist being generous.

 

There are few "atheistic institutions" because there is no need for us to associate. Politically, we are quite divergent.

 

Your ideas about generosity have no bearing on the existence of God. If you wish to think the Flying Spagetti Monster has ordered you go donate to charity, good for charity, but not an indication of the existence of the FSM (praise her holy noodles).

 

Since you are a doctor then you must know that it was the Christians in the early centuries the started hospitals for the common people and the poor. As far as I can tell there were no hospitals started by atheists. Secondly Christianity provided a philosophical basis for science to be done by showing that the universe was intelligible and could be studied. It displayed a knowable order. This order was based on the belief that God created the universe.

As for your comment about the Christian being the Flying Spaghetti Monster shows quite a bit of ignorance on your part. You may believe God does not exist but putting forth such a false caricature about God does do you well since you are a doctor who is well educated.

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