Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

God Tests Us?


ContraBardus

Recommended Posts

I've heard many Christians bring up 'Testing' in relation to God.

 

We're here as a 'test'.

 

He's 'testing' our faith.

 

This existence is a 'test' for the next life.

 

Testing what exactly?

 

Let's put this into perspective. What's the point of a test exactly?

 

A test is to discover something. It's purpose is to learn an unknown.

 

When a teacher assigns a test, it's to discover if the student has learned the lessons being taught. It's a gauge to find out what was learned. Testing serves no other purpose than to gather information and supply results.

 

When a Scientist 'tests' something, it's to discover an answer.

 

Put simply, a 'test' is something an omnipotent omnipresent, all knowing, all powerful being would not need to ever do.

 

So, what's the deal with that? What's he testing? What is it he hopes to find out that he does not already know exactly?

 

Testing has no benefit to what is being tested. It is done solely for the benefit of the one administering the test.

 

God, such as it is, should already know everything. So why are we being tested?

 

He supposedly knows everything right? He knows what we're going to turn out like and has for eternity before we were created.

 

What's the point of the 'test' exactly?

 

What is it he does not know that he's discovering through this testing exactly?

 

If he doesn't know something, that means he's not omnipotent or all knowing. It means there are things he does not know, and that he's not all powerful. It means he can't see the future or predict an outcome flawlessly.

 

It pretty much means that if God needs to 'test' us, then he's not really God.

 

So then, why does he 'test' our faith? Why does he put us here to 'test' us? Why does he need to?

 

It all seems kind of stupid to me. The all knowing, all powerful, Lord of Everything, doesn't know enough about us that he needs to 'test' us to find out?

 

Why exactly? What's the point of this testing?

 

As I mentioned, it can't really be for our benefit. There's nothing gained by us with him 'testing' our faith. It's just a way to confirm or falsify, or measure progress.

 

Why does an omnipotent all knowing being need to do something like that? Doesn't he already know? Then why bother with finding out through testing?

 

God, if such a thing exists in the form Christians claim it does, would have no need to do any such thing. It would be pointless. He'd already know the results.

 

So, why bother then?

 

Either way, it means Christians are wrong about God in one respect or another. Either he's all knowing and doesn't test us or ever need to, or he's not all knowing and all powerful, and has to gather information about us in order to learn.

 

Which is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 126
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Brakeman

    13

  • Abiyoyo

    12

  • Sconnor

    8

  • Shyone

    8

It pretty much means that if God needs to 'test' us, then he's not really God.

I really like this.

 

It's concise and shows the internal contradictions between what God is supposed to be and what the "plan" is supposed to do/be. Do be do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came to understand that he tests us for our own good, to refine us, make our faith purer and make us better people. A friend of mine once told me he would never test us more than we could bear.

 

That, of course was bullshit, I discovered, when I was tested to the breaking point and in my long, dark night of the soul when I cried out for help and comfort God fucked off to go test someone else.

 

I speak in jest, of course. There is no God testing us. I cannot believe a supreme being would be that malicious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came to understand that he tests us for our own good, to refine us, make our faith purer and make us better people. A friend of mine once told me he would never test us more than we could bear.

 

That, of course was bullshit, I discovered, when I was tested to the breaking point and in my long, dark night of the soul when I cried out for help and comfort God fucked off to go test someone else.

 

I speak in jest, of course. There is no God testing us. I cannot believe a supreme being would be that malicious.

 

I've heard similar things.

 

However, what's described would not be a 'test' then. It doesn't fit the definition of the term.

 

test 1 (tst)

n.

1. A procedure for critical evaluation; a means of determining the presence, quality, or truth of something; a trial: a test of one's eyesight; subjecting a hypothesis to a test; a test of an athlete's endurance.

2. A series of questions, problems, or physical responses designed to determine knowledge, intelligence, or ability.

3. A basis for evaluation or judgment: "A test of democratic government is how Congress and the president work together" (Haynes Johnson).

 

If it's not something God does to evaluate something or gather information it's not a 'test' then.

 

As mentioned, testing is purely for the benefit of the one doing the testing. It's nothing but a means for gathering information about the subject being tested for some purpose.

 

If God needs to 'test' us, then he's not all knowing. He needs to perform tests to evaluate us and gather information about us.

 

Therefore, the Christian claims about him, if such a thing does exist, are bunk. He can't see the future, he doesn't know everything, and therefore any prophecies past, present, or future, are just speculation on his part.

 

That includes 'end of the world' scenarios like Revelation, or any other biblical prophecy at all really. It means they were either written after the fact to justify things that already happened, were lucky guesses, and that all of them were at the very least, purely speculative.

 

That means the outcome of the 'struggle between good and evil' and even the 'End of the World' as predicted in the Bible are nothing more than suggestions of an ideal outcome, and that neither one is actually prophetic. It opens up a very real possibility that 'evil' could win the 'eternal struggle' even if Christian God does exist in some form.

 

The claim that God is all knowing and all powerful, and the claim that he 'tests' us are contradictory. They are two mutually exclusive ideas.

 

It's got to be one or the other. It's not one of those things Christians can have both ways. It only makes sense one way or the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

God sure as hell tested Job. Job passed the test. Job was a moron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am just going to add a quick brief answer to this until I get my head around it and think it over for a while.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, but when you sit a test in school is not the whole purpose of it for YOU? So you grow and know the answers. So you study for it and see if you can get the highest score possible? What purpose is it for the one making the test? absolutely nothing, except to mark it and to see if you have actually learnt anything while sitting in class listening or going to sleep. The idea of the test is to prepare you for the next stage in learning in life. I am pretty sure when you go see a Dr you would find great comfort in knowing that he/she has passed the tests they were given so they are not giving you the wrong medications or diagnosis for something. Im pretty sure when you sit in a plane you hope that pilot has passed the test and knows exactly how to land that sucker, and knows how to do it in emergencies as well.

 

So what does God have anything to do with giving tests if He already knows the answers? Well Im pretty sure they are not for his benefit but for OURs.

I dont normally like throwing scriptures into posts, but seeing as the question is directly related to the (I think) Christian God I will refer to the Bible.

 

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

 

James1 v2-4.

 

So what exactly does that mumbo jumbo mean to christians?

 

It means when you go through a trial, ie hardship or testing to hang in there...why? so we develop patience and maturity, not lacking anything. Huh? you say. Why would be lacking anything in the first place?

 

Well during those times of fire and trials we find out the kind of person we truly are under heat. If you can be nice and friendly and great during stress free times, what does that prove? Can you be the same temperment during stress? Should we be the same temperment during stress? Im not sure I am explaining this as well as I could. To me it all boils down to Character building. We change and grow during trials. We come out the other end, hopefully as an evolved different person. Does that make God cruel? I dont think so. When we see our own children going through trials and hardship our immediate response is to want to make it all smooth and better for them. Sometimes though, dont you want your child to grow through that hardship and not run away from the first sign of conflict? Life will never be easy for anyone. There will always be walls that we come up against, so we either run from them or push through. When we get through, arent you impressed with yourself? Dont you feel like you can take on bigger challenges then? Through that process you grew as a human in character. I certainly dont want my son to run away from hardship and conflict. I want him to walk through it so he knows when he comes up against it again in his life he is better prepared to deal with it, and he has discovered more depth in himself as a man in his character.

 

I dont see God as any different by being our parent in those trials. Im not entirely sure he sends them to us, however I could find a lot of bible verses that says He does.

So these trials arent for Gods sake or wellbeing. They are for ours. I can write a whole plethora of trials I have gone through and come to the other side and have indeed found myself a changed person. A stronger person. A more complete person, because during those trials I had to exercise my character and either sink or swim and I found new strength to swim. I went through it..so indeed I know I now have more perseverance and maturity.

 

I will leave it here and wait for the onslaught of comments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what does God have anything to do with giving tests if He already knows the answers? Well Im pretty sure they are not for his benefit but for OURs.

I dont normally like throwing scriptures into posts, but seeing as the question is directly related to the (I think) Christian God I will refer to the Bible.

 

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

 

James1 v2-4.

 

So what exactly does that mumbo jumbo mean to christians?

 

It means when you go through a trial, ie hardship or testing to hang in there...why? so we develop patience and maturity, not lacking anything. Huh? you say. Why would be lacking anything in the first place?

Be careful saying "god" is like a teacher and does this for our benefit:

James 1

 

13 Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test:

 

To me it all boils down to Character building. We change and grow during trials. We come out the other end, hopefully as an evolved different person. Does that make God cruel? I dont think so. When we see our own children going through trials and hardship our immediate response is to want to make it all smooth and better for them. Sometimes though, dont you want your child to grow through that hardship and not run away from the first sign of conflict? Life will never be easy for anyone. ... I certainly dont want my son to run away from hardship and conflict. I want him to walk through it so he knows when he comes up against it again in his life he is better prepared to deal with it, and he has discovered more depth in himself as a man in his character.

This all sounds so great. It surely does. And then? And then you die.

 

And after you die, as the story goes, are you going to be independent or dependent? Are you, as a xian, supposed to be learning to be more or less dependent on your "god" and will this status change upon death? During your life you are supposed to become more and more dependent upon your "god" not less. The parent/child analogy fails. Parents teach their children to be independent and to drow less and less dependent upon them. And when you die? You will be 100% dependent on your "god" for all things at this point. You will have essentially "moved" back in with you parents. You will eat the food it provides. And obey all of its rules. All the time. For eternity. Without question or deviation. Instead of becoming what you describe you are thriving to become the opposite. There is no true "growth" here.

 

I dont see God as any different by being our parent in those trials. Im not entirely sure he sends them to us, however I could find a lot of bible verses that says He does.

You're more than welcome to contradict James from earlier.

 

So these trials arent for Gods sake or wellbeing. They are for ours. I can write a whole plethora of trials I have gone through and

come to the other side and have indeed found myself a changed person. A stronger person. A more complete person, because during those trials I had to exercise my character and either sink or swim and I found new strength to swim. I went through it..so indeed I know I now have more perseverance and maturity.

Perhaps. And when you came through these did you pat yourself on the back for how well you clung to your mother and father? How much you called out to them and how they protected you, like a child, even though you were fully grown? Is this what you did? Is this what you're teaching your own child? You say you're not. Do you now pray when a crisis occurs? Do you lean heavily on your "heavenly father?" Does it make you proud when you do so? When you give yourself over to it? I'm sure it does. This is what you're doing. You're regressing to a child and telling yourself that you are becoming more mature. You're becoming more and more dependent so when you die you can, hopefully, be fully dependent. The "test" is whether or not you can actually maintain a dependent lifestyle for the duration. Read your James quote again since that's what it's telling you.

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MWC,

 

Astute observation on the effect that christian spirituality has on people. Years ago in college, a leader of a bible study said the goal of "discipleship" is to make you independently dependent upon God. That was clever, paradoxical language.

 

But you are right, the goal of parenting is to produce an adult who needs you less and less. But the opposite is true in christianity. The "Father" wants children to put less and less stock in their own talents, intellectual abilities and ability to provide for themselves.

 

Astounding. I never really thought about that kind of dysfunction before!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am just going to add a quick brief answer to this until I get my head around it and think it over for a while.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, but when you sit a test in school is not the whole purpose of it for YOU? So you grow and know the answers. So you study for it and see if you can get the highest score possible? What purpose is it for the one making the test? absolutely nothing, except to mark it and to see if you have actually learnt anything while sitting in class listening or going to sleep. The idea of the test is to prepare you for the next stage in learning in life. I am pretty sure when you go see a Dr you would find great comfort in knowing that he/she has passed the tests they were given so they are not giving you the wrong medications or diagnosis for something. Im pretty sure when you sit in a plane you hope that pilot has passed the test and knows exactly how to land that sucker, and knows how to do it in emergencies as well.

 

So what does God have anything to do with giving tests if He already knows the answers? Well Im pretty sure they are not for his benefit but for OURs.

I dont normally like throwing scriptures into posts, but seeing as the question is directly related to the (I think) Christian God I will refer to the Bible.

 

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

 

James1 v2-4.

 

So what exactly does that mumbo jumbo mean to christians?

 

It means when you go through a trial, ie hardship or testing to hang in there...why? so we develop patience and maturity, not lacking anything. Huh? you say. Why would be lacking anything in the first place?

 

Well during those times of fire and trials we find out the kind of person we truly are under heat. If you can be nice and friendly and great during stress free times, what does that prove? Can you be the same temperment during stress? Should we be the same temperment during stress? Im not sure I am explaining this as well as I could. To me it all boils down to Character building. We change and grow during trials. We come out the other end, hopefully as an evolved different person. Does that make God cruel? I dont think so. When we see our own children going through trials and hardship our immediate response is to want to make it all smooth and better for them. Sometimes though, dont you want your child to grow through that hardship and not run away from the first sign of conflict? Life will never be easy for anyone. There will always be walls that we come up against, so we either run from them or push through. When we get through, arent you impressed with yourself? Dont you feel like you can take on bigger challenges then? Through that process you grew as a human in character. I certainly dont want my son to run away from hardship and conflict. I want him to walk through it so he knows when he comes up against it again in his life he is better prepared to deal with it, and he has discovered more depth in himself as a man in his character.

 

I dont see God as any different by being our parent in those trials. Im not entirely sure he sends them to us, however I could find a lot of bible verses that says He does.

So these trials arent for Gods sake or wellbeing. They are for ours. I can write a whole plethora of trials I have gone through and come to the other side and have indeed found myself a changed person. A stronger person. A more complete person, because during those trials I had to exercise my character and either sink or swim and I found new strength to swim. I went through it..so indeed I know I now have more perseverance and maturity.

 

I will leave it here and wait for the onslaught of comments.

 

Okay. I'm correcting you.

 

The purpose of a test is to evaluate and provide unknown information to the one administering the test. It does not matter if it's a doctor administering a test to gauge your health, or a teacher testing you to gauge how much of the material you've retained, or a Scientist testing the effect of radiation on rats.

 

You may benefit from the results depending on what kind of test it is, but the purpose of the test itself is not for your benefit. It is a way to gather information for whatever is administering the test.

 

For example, a doctor examines you and performs tests to discern your health. You might benefit from the treatment provided based on that information, but the test itself did not actually help you become any more healthy. The test was for the benefit of the doctor, not the patient. It provided information to the doctor so that the best treatment option could be utilized.

 

There is no other reason to 'test'. That is it's sole purpose. It's literally spelled out by the definition of the term 'test'.

 

You do not learn from testing. You learn from study, you learn from experience, you can even learn from administering tests of your own. The purpose of learning is not to pass tests.

 

The test itself does nothing for the one tested. No one benefits from an English test but the English teacher. It's just a way to determine what information is being retained by the class so that future lessons can be planned accordingly. The same can be said of a test on any subject.

 

Your example of 'being glad a doctor passed his or her tests' is irrelevant and skirts the issue of the topic.

 

I seriously doubt you are really glad that the Doctor passed tests. You are glad the doctor learned and studied, and the test was just a way to verify that they did so.

 

The test was not part of the learning experience for the doctor, it was an exam given to make sure they were qualified to work in their field.

 

In other words, the test itself did nothing to benefit the doctor. It was the years of study and experience that the school supplied. The exams were nothing but a way to confirm their skills for the benefit of others, be it the school administration, their future employers, or as a way to show patients they are qualified to treat them.

 

You're confusing the test with study, validation, and experience.

 

I can perform a thousand tests on an jet engine to verify that it was built and is working properly. However, none of my tests will make it work any better, it's just a way to verify that work was done correctly and that it's functioning as it should.

 

If it's not, I've still got to get it fixed. The test will do nothing but provide the information needed to do so. In other words, no benefit to the engine itself. It's only useful to provide information to those who must use or repair it.

 

So, if God is all knowing and all powerful, why does he need this information? Why doesn't he already know? What's the point of these 'tests'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, if God is all knowing and all powerful, why does he need this information? Why doesn't he already know? What's the point of these 'tests'?

I get the weird impression the Christians want to redefine test.

 

They want test to mean "harden" or "strengthen" or perhaps "refine."

 

I don't find that in a dictionary. I think the analogous situation would be Boot Camp. The various tests are intended to show the soldier what they need to accomplish to be better soldiers rather than a means of assessing their strengths or weaknesses. And, in the process of this "test" they become stronger, more self-reliant and capable.

 

In that sense, which is not a standard meaning, test is not a means of assessing, but rather "putting to the test" which would suggest "tempering" (like hardening steel) rather than "evaluating".

 

Christianity, I will say again, plays havoc with the meanings of words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

I think Shyone got it right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kathleen:

 

Please help me understand this.

 

God is all knowing and all powerful. Everything that happens is caused by or sanctioned by God. It’s all “part of God’s plan.”

 

So if I suffer a permanent life-changing head injury, it was caused by, or sanctioned by God, and it is because God is testing me, to make me stronger and to see if I will still love him after he has smacked me good.

 

How is this different from the father who has power over his four-year-old son, and picks him up by the ankles, swings him around in the air three times and bashes him full force into the drywall in order to make the kid stronger, develop perseverance, and to see if the kid will still love him after it is over? After all, this test isn’t for the sake or well-being of the father. Surely, the kid will come out of it a more complete and mature person. After all, his father only did it because he loved the child.

 

Call it what you want. I call it abuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Astounding. I never really thought about that kind of dysfunction before!

Excellent point and food for thought, mwc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well during those times of fire and trials we find out the kind of person we truly are under heat. If you can be nice and friendly and great during stress free times, what does that prove? Can you be the same temperment during stress? Should we be the same temperment during stress? Im not sure I am explaining this as well as I could. To me it all boils down to Character building. We change and grow during trials. We come out the other end, hopefully as an evolved different person.

 

So in essence god is using suffering (fire and trials) for character building -- that's fucking ludicrous!

 

Your definition of fire and trials is a limited; romanticized definition that precludes (turns a blind eye) to egregious human suffering. Oh that's OK dear you got an F on your paper this is for your own good -- it's good character building or your boss is an asshole; just persevere and you'll become a stronger, complete person.

 

Apparently, you can not admit to the magnitude of human suffering, that has gone on throughout time. With so many people that are suffering and have suffered, in so many horrific, differing ways, how can you even begin to tabulate or quantify the wretched misery?

 

You don't consider ALL of the excruciating pain and unspeakable suffering. You narrow it down to only include your myopic rationalization that petty fire and trials (not egregious suffering) is allowed by god so that you can grow and become better a person, with a gentle temperament.

 

How does your explanation hold up when you consider the millions of people, through out time, who do succumb to their fire and trials, (suffering)-- people who do give up, where people are forever broken and become incapacitated, mentally unstable, mentally crippled, or attempt/commit suicide -- never to have their characters built. These people never grew stronger or became nicer or instituted an even temperament. Didn't your ALL-knowing god consider these fallible humans in his grand plan?

 

What about the Jews of the Holocaust?

 

Would you blame them for abandoning their faith?

 

Are they any less human because they might have given up?

 

Are they shunned by god because their characters weren't built?

 

According to the christian doctrine of salvation the Jews who went through their fires and trials of character building are now being tortured in the flames of hell for an eternity -- do you hold this doctrine?

 

Does that make God cruel? I dont think so. When we see our own children going through trials and hardship our immediate response is to want to make it all smooth and better for them. Sometimes though, dont you want your child to grow through that hardship and not run away from the first sign of conflict?

 

...I dont see God as any different by being our parent in those trials.

 

Yes those trials...but what if you expand your narrow definition to include ALL the egregious trials?

 

When a child suffers, I, as a father, am obligated to ease his suffering, take care of him, love him, which should be second nature, to any father, who loves his child -- which in turn, if a father neglects his child and let's him wallow in pain and anguish -- suffering in unthinkable ways; this father would be held in contempt -- he would be exposed as an abusive, negligent monster. Why does your heavenly father, neglect his earthly children, letting them suffer in repulsive, insanely unthinkable, ways? For fucking character building?

 

Additionally, what about ALL the children and infants in the world who are going through their hideous fire and trials -- suffering in egregious ways -- only to die? What was the purpose for these children? They didn't have a chance to have their characters built. How does this fit into your explanation?

 

--S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Testing what exactly?

 

"Testing" your allegiance to Him and choosing those choices that are in His will by discernment via the Holy Spirit and the Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if god starts creating a particular environment or scenario to elicit a particular response, he would be taking away our free will as no one could resist the influence of an all powerful god, no?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if god starts creating a particular environment or scenario to elicit a particular response, he would be taking away our free will as no one could resist the influence of an all powerful god, no?

I don't understand how an environment would remove our choices. I do, however, see that it influences our choices....on a daily basis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Testing what exactly?

 

"Testing" your allegiance to Him and choosing those choices that are in His will by discernment via the Holy Spirit and the Bible.

 

According to the christian doctrine of salvation, the Jews of the Holocaust will be tortured in the flames of hell for an eternity simply because the failed to show their allegiance to your deluded god-concept -- your god-man Jesus.

 

Your god-concept is a vile asshole.

 

I don't know what's more pathetically horrendous, a god who will torture fallible humans because they failed the test of allegiance, or the ignorant and insane christian drone, who believes, justifies and condones bible-god's actions?

 

Christianity, deluded christians and the bible are bullshit.

 

I await your BS vague non-responses............

 

You still haven't miraculously felt my grandmother's ancestral name -- huh, Ed?

 

Did you cheat and go out of your way and try to find the name on the Internet?

 

Be a good christian and don't lie. Jesus is watching; you don't want to break one of his commandments -- right?

Jesus is testing you......

 

Waiting.............

 

--S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You had promised me "no conversation" Scott. Please be a man of your word. And please do us all a favor Scott, take some time for yourself and learn how to use the editing features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madison avenue creates ad campaigns to get you to buy something, they use strong mental inducements to get us to want something. They use both positive and negative influences to get us to do what they want.

 

Now, multiply that little bit of influence by infinity. That's the power of an powerful, all knowing god. God would make the perfect ad, the perfect influence. He can't help it .. he's perfect..

 

Thus ... no free will.

 

 

 

 

If his influences weren't unfairly perfect, then he would be creating an environmental influence that might not succeed, since he is all knowing, why would he bother creating an failure influence? All of his influences would have to succeed if they were from the perfect god.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madison avenue creates ad campaigns to get you to buy something, they use strong mental inducements to get us to want something. They use both positive and negative influences to get us to do what they want.

 

Now, multiply that little bit of influence by infinity. That's the power of an powerful, all knowing god. God would make the perfect ad, the perfect influence. He can't help it .. he's perfect..

 

Thus ... no free will.

I would say the perfect add doesn't exist in our environment Brakeman due to the diversity in values/morals.

 

If his influences weren't unfairly perfect, then he would be creating an environmental influence that might not succeed, since he is all knowing, why would he bother creating an failure influence? All of his influences would have to succeed if they were from the perfect god.

To get humanity to open their eyes possibly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madison avenue creates ad campaigns to get you to buy something, they use strong mental inducements to get us to want something. They use both positive and negative influences to get us to do what they want.

 

Now, multiply that little bit of influence by infinity. That's the power of an powerful, all knowing god. God would make the perfect ad, the perfect influence. He can't help it .. he's perfect..

 

Thus ... no free will.

I would say the perfect add doesn't exist in our environment Brakeman due to the diversity in values/morals.

 

If his influences weren't unfairly perfect, then he would be creating an environmental influence that might not succeed, since he is all knowing, why would he bother creating an failure influence? All of his influences would have to succeed if they were from the perfect god.

To get humanity to open their eyes possibly?

 

There are no perfect ads because there are no perfect beings creating the ads.

 

Even if god's perfect ad goals were just to open our eyes, then he has taken away our free will to have our eyes closed. The size of his goal is not important. If he forces us to conform to him for one second or one hundred years, it's still taking away our free will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of us suffer. There is no denying that. To what degree we suffer depends on our life, our circumstances adn people around us. Not for one minute do I dismiss the huge world suffering going on around the world. I guess I haven't been making my point clear in here.

 

Every one of us has a choice in life on how to react to anything that goes on around us. We can choose to get angry and bitter, or turn towards God to find comfort and healing.

 

A test of your faith can come through anything. Whether you will still hang on to God in the most darkest night of your soul or not. In other words, are you believing in God when life is good and great, or are you believing in God when its so dark you cannot see. As christians, we believe God's wisdom and ways are higher than our own. Yes we can thrash and thrail and wave our arms at God in anger and demand answers to our suffering. Sometimes He may answer, sometimes He may not.

 

Or perhaps your suffering has dragged on and on and on for years on end. You still rail at God why is this happening to me??

As I have recently discovered in my own life against something I have been railing over God at for years and years, I realised that I had to surrender my right to an answer to it, and lay down my right of wanting life the way I wanted it. In essence, I crucified my desires and wants. That sounds completely insane to most of you I know. However....here is the secret. I found utter peace and contentment then. I died. When you die to God, something is born. For me it has been almost immediately an answer to thing I railed over for years.

 

That sounds like a complete illogical process. I always said God is not logical nor bound by our ideals of how life should go. It sounds like God is this big mean ogre, demanding that we give up our selves and lose ourselves in the process. No, it doesnt work that way at all. When you die to God, you find yourself, adn you find freedom. You are basically saying He is sovereign and Lord of your life. Does that make him a big meany denying you things? No. It means He wants you to trust in Him during those dark times. He knows all the answers, you do not.

 

I often cling to this verse in those dark periods of suffering.

 

I will give you the treasures of darkness,

riches stored in secret places,

so that you may know that I am the Lord...

Isaiah 45v3.

 

During those trials and hardships of growing, I often find out more about God and do indeed find those treasures. As bad as this sounds, suffering draws me closer to God. I know for some people it has the opposite effect. They think if God is going to be God, then he should relieve it all and hurry up with the job right then and there thankyou. God will not be told what to do. He hears our cries and agony. I dont have all the answers on why there is so much suffering in the world. All I know is this wisdom I have found for me personally. I choose to run towards God in those times, not away. I had a very close friend who was a christian that was very ill for years and years. She didnt let go of God in that process, but found His comfort and presence. She surrendered to the process. She came out of it a stronger person. A changed person.

 

Once again...I dont have all the answers for every individual type of suffering for anyone here on the forums or in the world. All I have is a worldview that I take and use in my own life to gain peace. It works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

If he doesn't know something, that means he's not omnipotent or all knowing. It means there are things he does not know, and that he's not all powerful. It means he can't see the future or predict an outcome flawlessly.

 

It pretty much means that if God needs to 'test' us, then he's not really God.

 

 

 

You seem to have put great thought into this post. I respect that. My mind was totally messed up and unbelief was surrounding me, then ,...it camew to me. The Holy Spirit spoke to me Contra.

 

It said, "Abiyoyo, think farther than this, and the answer is simple". And then, I thought, and said, "Lord! I am lost, this is a fact, and I can't overcome the truth of this statement."

 

Them, suddenly, I saw the heavens open, and the angels were singing, and I saw a great light, and I couldn't look anymore. I heard a voice, loud, and it said, "ABIYOYO, ABIYOYO, ABIYOYO"

 

I said, "Yes Lord" (scarred)

 

It said, "Be not afraid Abiyoyo, I am with you and will help you as the scripture is written" (soft voice)

 

Then the Holy Spirit explained the answers to your topic.

 

God does test man and is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

 

Though He knows you, and everything you will choose to do, you do not know everything you will do, and why or for what reason you may do them.

 

Then, It gave me an example, " A man is going to be tempted to commit adultery, and I know He will do this. As a result, I will remove my blessing from him for a time, and he will to suffer of his sins. He will come back to me and repent in exactly 33years, 2days, 5 hours, 15 minutes, and 22 seconds, and this will greatly increase His faith in me and all will be forgiven of him on Earth "

 

"If the man was not tempted by adultery, then he would have stayed the same, stagnant in his belief in Me, doubting, not really thinking of me or believing me, and also, he would have lustful thoughts of other women because his heart wants another woman to have relations with. I know this because I am Omniscient. I have tested you because I am omnipotent, and I also am testing you so that you will go the direction I know is good for you, this is because I am omnibenevolent.

 

Lastly, I just thought all this up in my mind, but I will claim God put it there for me to help you understand why God tests people. I will repent now :17:

 

Now, the mind bender. He never physically committed adultery, but told his wife that he thought of it, and his mind was engulfed with the idea for a long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW Abiyoyo!

 

God spoke to you! In person!

 

Since this was the word of god, how are you going to go about it being included in the bible? You know the bible is the complete word of god. If god actually spoke to you his words will need to be added post haste.

You'd better write it all down while you still have the exact words clear in your mind, as god will punish you as a blasphemer if you don't get it right!

 

Wow, won't all of Christendom be surprised..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.