Why I Am No Longer A Xian

[florduh]

You got a coupla favorite examples of these perceived issues?

 

Biblical Contradictions

 

You already have seen many such examples and dismiss them, but here are a few anyway. I have no doubt you can explain away every one, so don't bother. I used to wear the blinders of an apologist, too.

[centauri]

Don't forget - God created people as free moral agents.

Not when he manipulates their behavior and predestines them, as the Bible says he does.

 

Salvation from sin by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, as taught in the Bible alone.

This contradicts God's prior instructions, in which there is no need to believe in an illegal human sacrifice to be saved.

Even in the New Testament faith alone doesn't save.

There are works that are required in order to receive the big prize.

 

Any who would disagree with core Christianity would be heretical

And that "core Christianity" is subjective, based on the opinions of men in frocks.

[Thumbelina]

The bible interprets itself and if the people rely on the Holy Spirit AND the biblical method of letting scripture interpret itself and if they do not apply private interpretations to the texts then there will be a unifying of the faith (Eph 4:13).

Thousands of competing sects say exactly the same thing and reference that same verse(s) to prove that they have the correct understanding - not the Pentecostals, not the Amish, not the LDS, not the Lutherans, not the Baptists, not the Mormons, not the Quakers, not the Catholics, "Everyone but ME is reading it wrong, and here's the proof!"

 

 

Thumbelina: As I said previously, the bible's message is for whomever is willing to follow it and for who will continue to follow its precepts. What rule/s does to bible put forth to TEST the teachings of its professed proponents? Florduh, people are FREE to not follow the bible but why are the people who do not believe in it and therefore do not WISH or are unwilling to follow it, MISinterpreting its texts?

 

 

 

Anyway, been there, done that, got over it. Believe as much as you can for as long as you can, and enjoy your special status. Just don't study and think too much or you'll see why the religion opposes thought in favor of blind faith. As long as you believe that every rational thought you might have is the devil misleading you, you will be stuck in the ancient Pagan mythologies adopted and adapted by the authors of the Bible.

 

 

Thumbelina: I swear you just described the belief/religion of atheism and its results (blind faith in SELF). Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb. You, Par, Living Life et al are woo woos and you don't even know it

 

 

 

P.S. One definition for religion in my "New Webster's Concise Dictionary Of The English Language" is: "Anything that elicits devotion, zeal, dedication, etc.: Politics is his religion."

[Thumbelina]

The devil screwed with the people not the books of the Book. The bible interprets itself and if the people rely on the Holy Spirit AND the biblical method of letting scripture interpret itself and if they do not apply private interpretations to the texts then there will be a unifying of the faith (Eph 4:13). God is all powerful AND His nature allows for free will, that is to say, He allows us to worship Him or He allows us not to worship Him. When we worship Him it causes us to gradually be transformed to have a character like His and eventually we will receive eternal life. Not worshiping Him garners the opposite result.

Curious that you first claim that we left because we didn't understand the Bible right, and then you claim that the Bible explains itself. You don't see the contradiction in what you're saying?

 

 

 

 

 

What do you suppose this text means then? : "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

 

 

P.S. You OK?

[Thumbelina]

Don't forget - God created people as free moral agents.

Not when he manipulates their behavior and predestines them, as the Bible says he does.

 

Salvation from sin by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, as taught in the Bible alone.

This contradicts God's prior instructions, in which there is no need to believe in an illegal human sacrifice to be saved.

Even in the New Testament faith alone doesn't save.

There are works that are required in order to receive the big prize.

 

Any who would disagree with core Christianity would be heretical

And that "core Christianity" is subjective, based on the opinions of men in frocks.

 

 

Hi Centuari Darlin' (beloved)! *really happy smile* I missed ya but there you go again with the predestination, "NO free will" thing AGAIN. I do agree with you though, faith and works go TOGETHER; faith in God gives liberty and not licence.

[centauri]

Don't forget - God created people as free moral agents.

Not when he manipulates their behavior and predestines them, as the Bible says he does.

 

Salvation from sin by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, as taught in the Bible alone.

This contradicts God's prior instructions, in which there is no need to believe in an illegal human sacrifice to be saved.

Even in the New Testament faith alone doesn't save.

There are works that are required in order to receive the big prize.

 

Any who would disagree with core Christianity would be heretical

And that "core Christianity" is subjective, based on the opinions of men in frocks.

 

 

Hi Centuari Darlin' (beloved)! *really happy smile* I missed ya but there you go again with the predestination, "NO free will" thing AGAIN. I do agree with you though, faith and works go TOGETHER; faith in God gives liberty and not licence.

That's right, the free will myth needs to be refuted, especially when it's packed into a sermon about the Bible.

Predestination isn't my idea, the Bible tells me it happens, just as it tells me that God manipulates behavior if he sees fit to do so.

[Ouroboros]

The issue is that twisted people twist the Scriptures for their own gain.

That accounts for all of them. Everyone twists the interpretation of the Bible (or any "Holy" book) to fit the interpreters intentions and gain. You're just as guilty.

[Ouroboros]

What do you suppose this text means then? : "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

The problem is that you claim that we all left because we interpreted the Bible wrong. Now you're saying it's impossible to do. Make up your mind.

 

P.S. You OK?

No. Neither is my family. If God is behind all what we're experiencing, then he has a very sick and twisted sense of evil humor.

[florduh]

Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb.

I try to remain civil, but you're an idiot. I need to build up my reserves of patience before continuing with the willfully ignorant.

 

Later. Much later.

[Ouroboros]

Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb.

I try to remain civil, but you're an idiot. I need to build up my reserves of patience before continuing with the willfully ignorant.

 

Later. Much later.

Agree. It's stupid beyond stupid.

[Thumbelina]

What do you suppose this text means then? : "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

The problem is that you claim that we all left because we interpreted the Bible wrong. Now you're saying it's impossible to do. Make up your mind.

 

 

Thumbelina: I think PART of why a lot of you left is because of the misunderstanding of biblical concepts. I am not saying it is not possible to interpret the bible wrong --> http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-16.htm . I am saying that unstable (those not grounded in the faith) and unlearned (those who find some biblical teachings hard to understand) totally twist the scriptures to their own destruction. It takes a meek, teachable heart AND a willingness to endure no matter what to understand the gospel and that God wants to secure us for eternity.

 

 

Ouro, I realize that people like you and Dave and others went through some really harrowing circumstances and you still have the effects of them to contend with and it is hard for a Christian to communicate to a nonbeliever about pain and suffering in this world; especially while the unbeliever is going through pain. The bible says that the devil is responsible for the pain and suffering--> http://bible.cc/john/10-10.htm . He is the vicegerent of this planet (Adam's fault) and this is how he likes to run it. He delights in hurting us. I realize that there are Christians running around out there pointing fingers at atheists and gays and saying all misery is their fault but to them I say: " ... He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ... ". This is WHY I say that the bible needs to interpret itself, it shows a God of mercy and rightly interpreting it will expose people like those Westboro people etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: P.S. You OK?

 

 

 

Ouroboros: No. Neither is my family. If God is behind all what we're experiencing, then he has a very sick and twisted sense of evil humor.

 

 

Thumbelina: I am really sorry that you and yours are going through a bad patch. God is not responsible for our woes, the devil is. I have my tough times too and an atheist accused me of having God as a crutch. He is right, I do NEED God and because I recognize that need, I am able to recognize God's love for me. I do realize that others look at life differently, I just wish that they would just stop seeing the God of the bible as a capricious God.

[Thumbelina]

Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb.

I try to remain civil, but you're an idiot. I need to build up my reserves of patience before continuing with the willfully ignorant.

 

Later. Much later.

 

Hey, I did not cuss at you. What is wrong with neo paganism? I simply stated what I observed especially with my having a Christian worldview. Thought you would have said "how come"?

[Ouroboros]

Thumbelina: I think PART of why a lot of you left is because of the misunderstanding of biblical concepts.

No, you are contradicting yourself. You said the Bible interprets itself.

 

I am not saying it is not possible to interpret the bible wrong --> http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-16.htm .

You said the Bible interprets itself.

 

Make up your mind.

 

You're like the person Jesus told you not to be. Your yes should be a yes, and your no a no, not wishywashy back and forth like that.

 

I am saying that unstable (those not grounded in the faith) and unlearned (those who find some biblical teachings hard to understand) totally twist the scriptures to their own destruction. It takes a meek, teachable heart AND a willingness to endure no matter what to understand the gospel and that God wants to secure us for eternity.

 

 

Ouro, I realize that people like you and Dave and others went through some really harrowing circumstances and you still have the effects of them to contend with and it is hard for a Christian to communicate to a nonbeliever about pain and suffering in this world; especially while the unbeliever is going through pain.

We went through an enormous amount of pain and suffering while we were Christian. 20,000 Christians prayed for my family, world wide. We still suffered... and we're still suffering.

 

You have your chance. Prove that God exists. Ask him for a miracle that will reverse our situation. You have your challenge.

 

The bible says that the devil is responsible for the pain and suffering--> http://bible.cc/john/10-10.htm .

Which is only reliant on faith and belief, nothing else.

 

Besides, the Bible is full of quote where Jesus says that God will take care of you, that he knows the number of hairs on your head, and feeds the birds, and blah, blah. I know, you interpret that as "figuratively" and not literally, while interpreting the "devil is evil" literally. That's the "right"™ interpretation according to you. Because the Bible interprets itself...

 

He is the vicegerent of this planet (Adam's fault) and this is how he likes to run it. He delights in hurting us. I realize that there are Christians running around out there pointing fingers at atheists and gays and saying all misery is their fault but to them I say: " ... He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ... ". This is WHY I say that the bible needs to interpret itself, it shows a God of mercy and rightly interpreting it will expose people like those Westboro people etc.

So Westboro interprets the Bible wrong because the Bible interprets itself and can't be interpreted wrong...

 

 

Thumbelina: I am really sorry that you and yours are going through a bad patch.

A 16 years long "bad patch" that will probably take another 30-40 years unless you can get your lazy-ass God to do something for once, instead of letting Satan rule the world.

 

God is not responsible for our woes, the devil is.

Which shows that unbelief and Satan are stronger than belief and God.

 

I have my tough times too and an atheist accused me of having God as a crutch. He is right, I do NEED God and because I recognize that need, I am able to recognize God's love for me. I do realize that others look at life differently, I just wish that they would just stop seeing the God of the bible as a capricious God.

God is not enough for our situation. We tried for many years. But the situation ate away every ounce of belief, and God wasn't there to renew or strengthen our faith when we wanted it and needed it.

 

Your God is nothing but something from your imagination. Nothing shows that your God exists. Nothing.

[Ouroboros]

Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb.

I try to remain civil, but you're an idiot. I need to build up my reserves of patience before continuing with the willfully ignorant.

 

Later. Much later.

 

Hey, I did not cuss at you. What is wrong with neo paganism? I simply stated what I observed especially with my having a Christian worldview. Thought you would have said "how come"?

Do you even know what "pagan" means?

 

You're more pagan than we are.

 

Read this from belief.net about neo-Paganism: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2001/06/What-Neo-Pagans-Believe.aspx

 

Now, explain how a belief in supernatural things is the same a non-belief in supernatural things.

 

Besides, how can "atheism" be something "neo" (new) when non-belief in gods did exist in the ancient Greek... before Christianity. Christianity is more "neo" than atheism.

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina: I think PART of why a lot of you left is because of the misunderstanding of biblical concepts.

No, you are contradicting yourself. You said the Bible interprets itself.

 

I am not saying it is not possible to interpret the bible wrong --> http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-16.htm .

You said the Bible interprets itself.

 

Make up your mind.

 

You're like the person Jesus told you not to be. Your yes should be a yes, and your no a no, not wishywashy back and forth like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: What I am TRYING to communicate is that people do not let the bible interpret/explain itself; they make up their own beliefs and take a text out of context and claim that is what the bible says. What they need to do is look at what the entire bible says on any given topic. If those Westboro people did that then they would not be so hateful toward unbelievers and they would not be taking on a prerogative that belongs only to God (judging/condemning others).

 

 

Let me give you an example of this:

 

The bible teaches that we are born selfish and that us humans have evil hearts, A-man in one thread, is saying that the bible says we are inherently good. If we let the bible interpret/explain itself, it says that although we are evil we can become good ONLY through God's grace and through Jesus and what He did for us. Goodness is NOT within us. We have potential to become good IF we surrender to God.; we have extremely selfish proclivities which is the antithesis of a selfless godly character.

 

 

In this thread: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/47030-the-bible-boogyman/page__view__findpost__p__687910

A-man was saying that humans have goodness within but one biblical theme is that only through God we can be good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible says we are evil -----------> http://bible.cc/matthew/7-11.htm; http://bible.cc/job/14-4.htm http://bible.cc/proverbs/20-9.htm ; If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. http://bible.cc/1_john/1-8.htm ; http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/6-36.htm ; http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/7-20.htm ; http://bible.cc/romans/3-23.htm ; http://bible.cc/isaiah/64-6.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A-man said:

Jesus says, “You are the light of the world."

 

 

I note the word YOU. YOU are the light. That is something inside us.

 

 

Jesus says, "let your light shine before others"

 

 

 

 

 

But the bible says: Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. http://bible.cc/john/8-12.htm and there's the cross references which coincides with the Christian doctrine that says for without me [Jesus] ye can do nothing. http://bible.cc/john/15-5.htm ; Christ is our righteousness; if we depend on Him and His teachings we will gradually come to be like Him.

 

 

Humans WANT to think that we aren't evil but God says we are and people are not comfortable with that. There would not have been a multiplicity of religions or Christian sects if people will let the bible explain what it means by going back and forth throughout the bible and let the HS teach us what God wants to impress upon us AND follow what it says. Instead some use private interpretations. I hope you understand what I mean now?

 

A-man and others seem to think we don't need God or God is within us as evidenced here: "Some of us have redefined God as something internal to ourselves and some of us have just dropped the concept altogether." #22) http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/47898-pressing-on/page__st__20__p__687993#entry687993

and in A-man's post as well as in numerous posts on the web. A-man used scripture to prove his private interpretation but his intepretation is not biblical; the bible explains what IT means.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I am saying that unstable (those not grounded in the faith) and unlearned (those who find some biblical teachings hard to understand) totally twist the scriptures to their own destruction. It takes a meek, teachable heart AND a willingness to endure no matter what to understand the gospel and that God wants to secure us for eternity.

 

 

Ouro, I realize that people like you and Dave and others went through some really harrowing circumstances and you still have the effects of them to contend with and it is hard for a Christian to communicate to a nonbeliever about pain and suffering in this world; especially while the unbeliever is going through pain.

 

 

 

Ouroboros: We went through an enormous amount of pain and suffering while we were Christian. 20,000 Christians prayed for my family, world wide. We still suffered... and we're still suffering.

 

You have your chance. Prove that God exists. Ask him for a miracle that will reverse our situation. You have your challenge.

 

Thumbelina: Have you ever had conversations with other Christians that went through similar circumstances to you or even worse circumstances and yet they held on? I see that you are in pain now and again, I am so sorry. I am unable to prove to someone else that God exists, I have my own testimony that made God manifest Himself to me but scripture is the ultimate reason for my belief because it shows me God's character and that He loves me as well as all other humans. Pain and suffering tend to skew our view of God. I do pray for you and your family, I did not forget and I hope that God manifests Himself to you all and get you through your difficult circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: The bible says that the devil is responsible for the pain and suffering--> http://bible.cc/john/10-10.htm .

 

 

 

Ouroboros: Which is only reliant on faith and belief, nothing else.

 

Besides, the Bible is full of quote where Jesus says that God will take care of you, that he knows the number of hairs on your head, and feeds the birds, and blah, blah. I know, you interpret that as "figuratively" and not literally, while interpreting the "devil is evil" literally. That's the "right"™ interpretation according to you. Because the Bible interprets itself...

 

 

Thumbelina: I think there is overwhelming evidence that a devil exists. The bible does say that God's love for us is inestimable but it NEVER says that we won't go through this life without pain and suffering, does it? God is able to shift paradigms IF we put faith in Him. He gives us the peace that passes all understanding in the midst of our trials. It is good for other Christians to be "stretcher bearers" that is, to pray for others who are weak in faith but God answers prayers in different ways or in His time. I lost an 18 year old friend to cancer a few years ago. We prayed for her, she was anointed by the Pastor prior to dying; we hoped that God will perform a miracle but she still died. Her grandmother now lost her and she had lost her daughter (my friend's mother) to that cancer too, when my friend was little. Her grandmother knows that the devil is responsible and she has peace because of her faith and trust in God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: He is the vicegerent of this planet (Adam's fault) and this is how he likes to run it. He delights in hurting us. I realize that there are Christians running around out there pointing fingers at atheists and gays and saying all misery is their fault but to them I say: " ... He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ... ". This is WHY I say that the bible needs to interpret itself, it shows a God of mercy and rightly interpreting it will expose people like those Westboro people etc.

 

 

 

Ouroboros: So Westboro interprets the Bible wrong because the Bible interprets itself and can't be interpreted wrong...

 

Thumbelina: Westboro takes texts out of contexts in order to support their agenda but if the people who they rail against look at the bible, they will see that Westboro is WRONG and the BIBLE rightly states that God has compassion on us all and He wants ALL of us to turn from sin and it is God's goodness that leads us to repentance and not spewing out words of hate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I am really sorry that you and yours are going through a bad patch.

 

 

 

Ouroboros: A 16 years long "bad patch" that will probably take another 30-40 years unless you can get your lazy-ass God to do something for once, instead of letting Satan rule the world.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: That is a very long time, man. I hope God takes care of your situation in a way that you will be comforted.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: God is not responsible for our woes, the devil is.

 

 

 

Ouroboros: Which shows that unbelief and Satan are stronger than belief and God.

 

Thumbelina: People are FREE to trust in God or not and unfortunately people choose not to trust God and that is why the devil tends to win the battles but he will NOT win the war.

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina:I have my tough times too and an atheist accused me of having God as a crutch. He is right, I do NEED God and because I recognize that need, I am able to recognize God's love for me. I do realize that others look at life differently, I just wish that they would just stop seeing the God of the bible as a capricious God.

 

 

 

Ouroboros: God is not enough for our situation. We tried for many years. But the situation ate away every ounce of belief, and God wasn't there to renew or strengthen our faith when we wanted it and needed it.

 

Your God is nothing but something from your imagination. Nothing shows that your God exists. Nothing.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I politely disagree, Ouro. I know you are in pain and frustrated with life and to see your child hurting. I've seen Christians go through similar situations and they are able to empathize with God, God's son suffered tremendously because of lawlessness. I think that your lack of understanding about pain and suffering while you were still a Christian helped you lose your belief but cursing God is not the answer. He can see you through if you allow Him to and not give up even if it has been a long time with your trails.

 

I know you see what I say as just words but I truly do not understand disbelief; I would die without God.

[Thumbelina]

Atheism is neo paganism albeit in a slightly different garb.

I try to remain civil, but you're an idiot. I need to build up my reserves of patience before continuing with the willfully ignorant.

 

Later. Much later.

 

Hey, I did not cuss at you. What is wrong with neo paganism? I simply stated what I observed especially with my having a Christian worldview. Thought you would have said "how come"?

Do you even know what "pagan" means?

 

You're more pagan than we are.

 

 

 

 

 

Read this from belief.net about neo-Paganism: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2001/06/What-Neo-Pagans-Believe.aspx

 

Now, explain how a belief in supernatural things is the same a non-belief in supernatural things.

 

Besides, how can "atheism" be something "neo" (new) when non-belief in gods did exist in the ancient Greek... before Christianity. Christianity is more "neo" than atheism.

 

 

 

Ouro, you just won't get it. From a Christian perspective, Atheism is under the umbrella of neo paganism. Atheists just don't realize it. I see in your list atheists tend to adhere to some of the doctrines of pagans. Anyho, this song explains what I mean:

. Atheism is under the pagan umbrella. Christians believe that Satan will be allowed to manifest himself more openly in latter times; atheists will fall for his tricks when they SEE his "miracles".

[Ouroboros]

Thumbelina: What I am TRYING to communicate is that people do not let the bible interpret/explain itself; they make up their own beliefs and take a text out of context and claim that is what the bible says. What they need to do is look at what the entire bible says on any given topic. If those Westboro people did that then they would not be so hateful toward unbelievers and they would not be taking on a prerogative that belongs only to God (judging/condemning others).

Then let me ask you. I come from a family where pretty 99.9% of them are Christians of different denominations. I was a member of a Pentecostal church when I grew up. I got "saved" at the age of 7. Baptized at 12. Spoke in tongues sometime around that time. Read the Bible through-and-through many times over, in several languages, and translations. Was subscribing to a Bible scholar newsletter (and read it diligently). Went to one year Bible school, reading the Bible many times over again, and memorized hundreds of verses. I have been to thousands of different meetings. Went on the mission field. Knocked on doors and evangelized. Spent some days praying and reading the Bible 24 hours. And much, much, much more... I was part of a prayer group who prayed during the meetings, for hours on end. I could write a book about all the things I did and how serious I took my faith.

 

Yet... you say I got it ALL WRONG. Well.. thank you so f-ing much. Not that you're extremely prejudiced and judgmental... oh no. You're so "good" when you judge people without knowing them.

 

The bible says we are evil -----------> http://bible.cc/matthew/7-11.htm; http://bible.cc/job/14-4.htm http://bible.cc/proverbs/20-9.htm ; If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. http://bible.cc/1_john/1-8.htm ; http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/6-36.htm ; http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/7-20.htm ; http://bible.cc/romans/3-23.htm ; http://bible.cc/isaiah/64-6.htm

I don't care if we're good or not according to your belief. When I was Christian, I was a Christian and a believer. Your angle is that I wasn't. I don't consider your behavior or treatment of me any "good" at all. You're judging people without knowing them. And I find that extremely offensive.

 

Thumbelina: I politely disagree, Ouro. I know you are in pain and frustrated with life and to see your child hurting. I've seen Christians go through similar situations and they are able to empathize with God, God's son suffered tremendously because of lawlessness.

How many handicapped people do you have in your church? Are you out there, helping them, doing dress changes on their deep-tissue bedsores, emptying their colostomy bags, or such? Do you know how to deal with such things 24-7-365? Do you know how to have you child almost dying once or twice a year?

 

Thumbelina: That is a very long time, man. I hope God takes care of your situation in a way that you will be comforted.

If there is a miracle, I'll let you know. So get to it. Pray to your idol Jesus and see if it works.

 

I think that your lack of understanding about pain and suffering while you were still a Christian helped you lose your belief but cursing God is not the answer. He can see you through if you allow Him to and not give up even if it has been a long time with your trails.

I don't think you know even the beginning.

 

Your judgmental attitude is extremely annoying and upsetting.

 

I know you see what I say as just words but I truly do not understand disbelief; I would die without God.

I thought so too, 10 years ago.

[Ouroboros]

Ouro, you just won't get it. From a Christian perspective, Atheism is under the umbrella of neo paganism. Atheists just don't realize it.

That's just extremely DUMB.

 

Then, I can tell you, in the atheist perspective, Christianity is under the umbrella of paganism too. It's based on a belief in human sacrifice, drinking blood, and a God who punishes people for his own satisfaction.

 

I see in your list atheists tend to adhere to some of the doctrines of pagans.

What? Like what? You're the one who is a pagan.

 

Anyho, this song explains what I mean: ... . Atheism is under the pagan umbrella. Christians believe that Satan will be allowed to manifest himself more openly in latter times; atheists will fall for his tricks when they SEE his "miracles".

Eh?

 

Then let you stupid God show his miracles instead!? Duh! Basically, you're just saying that anyone who doesn't believe EXACTLY in YOUR version of God, they're pagans and evil.

 

My head hurts from all this stupidity. Sorry. I just can't argue with you. And I can't show you any sympathy or empathy after all the arrogance you have shown.

 

Your attitude is really, really upsetting.

 

And when it comes to that stupid video, it was never the money, fame, glory, or all the other Christian bullshit blah blah that made me turn away. So... wrong again. Get it right, or just stop judging people.

 

Even as a Christian, I had brain enough to understand the difference between paganism and atheism.

[agnosticator]

It takes a meek, teachable heart AND a willingness to endure no matter what to understand the gospel and that God wants to secure us for eternity.

 

This is exactly what is required by dictators, oppressors, abusive parents and spouses, and anyone wishing to maintain power over an individual. Teachers allow questions and opinions from their students. Teachers speak with clarity by making sure their language is precise, so the subject can be understood. The burden is on the teacher to deliver the subject to the students. If any student doesn't "get it", it is the teacher's failure, not the student's. No meekness, "teachable hearts" or endurance required.

[agnosticator]

Ouroboros, you have the patience of a saint! No, really. If I were in your shoes, I think my reaction would be pretty nasty! You are an admirable person.

[Ouroboros]

Ouroboros, you have the patience of a saint! No, really. If I were in your shoes, I think my reaction would be pretty nasty! You are an admirable person.

Oh, I know I'm holding back.

 

Honestly, I think you've done a great job of keeping your cool too.

[agnosticator]

Ouroboros, you have the patience of a saint! No, really. If I were in your shoes, I think my reaction would be pretty nasty! You are an admirable person.

Oh, I know I'm holding back.

 

Honestly, I think you've done a great job of keeping your cool too.

 

I think if she was talking to me like she was with you, I might let a few cuss words fly!

[florduh]

Looks like the only lesson some Ex-Christians retained was from the Book of Job.

[Ouroboros]

Looks like the only lesson some Ex-Christians retained was from the Book of Job.

Oh, believe me that I thought about Job many times before losing my faith.

 

The funny thing about job, he lost his wife, kids, livestock, etc. And God restored all those things. Good for Job. But what about his kids and wife in Hell? What about all the innocent livestock killed by disasters just to make God win the bet? How awful! Right?

[florduh]

But what about his kids and wife in Hell? What about all the innocent livestock killed by disasters just to make God win the bet? How awful! Right?

Just today I attended a funeral where the sermon was based on Job. My cogent rebuttal didn't seem appropriate under the circumstances. I think my tongue is still bleeding a little.