Ex-Mennonite

[Guest RereRex]

This makes me sad. I didn't know people thought of Mennonites that way. I don't think of them as nice, peaceful people at all.

 

I personally have not grown up in a Mennonite community, but my mother has. She has told me about her life growing up, and it's hell. She was beaten by her father as well. He would beat her with metal rods. And he'd beat her for no reason. He also molested her, and her sisters. When my mom was in her late teens she had her first child with her husband. A year later my mom had another child. A couple years later she moved to Canada with her husband and my two older sisters. She then had another child. When my mom was pregnant with me she found out that my father was molesting my sisters. She didn't know what to do. Like you, she didn't know much about the society outside of the Mennonite community. The people at her church (a church that was Mennonite but not old Mennonite) noticed that something was bothering her, and asked her what was wrong. She told them, and they called Children's Aid. They kicked my dad out, and she's never seen or talked to him since. Now she isn't in the Mennonite community at all. Her family barely ever talks to her, and looks down on her for leaving her husband. This happened a long time ago... and she still gets threats from my dad's family and her family.

 

That was a very short summary of the things that have happened to her, with a lot of things left out. But the thing is, this happens to a lot of people who know who used to be part of the Mennonite community. Mennonites are not peaceful, and they sicken me.

 

I hope your life gets better. I hope my mother's life and my older sisters lives get better as well.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Ichabod, congratulations on breaking away from the religion that treated you terribly. It's also great to be able to think rationally and not have to conform to superstitious nonsense, isn't it?

 

I would recommend using a little caution, though, with regard to broad-brushed comments. For example:

 

Mennonites do not practice open communion, if you take communion that means you are on the inside, a member.

 

As this is stated, it is false. SOME Mennonites don't practice open communion, but some DO. I was associated with a Mennonite church for a number of years, and anyone in attendance could take communion, not just members.

 

Keep in mind that there are different types of Mennonites, not just the "old Mennonite order," as the ultra-conservatives are often referred to.

 

My wife is still Mennonite and her father is a Mennonite minister, and I used to teach Sunday school at a Mennonite church (until I started seeing through the bs of christianity). With all my associations with the Mennonites I'm familiar with, they are nothing like what you've described as Mennonite. They are indeed quite peaceful (albeit deluded with religious nonsense, of course).

 

I do feel for the situation you've been in, and it's great to see that you've broken free. I just wanted to clarify, though, that not all Mennonites fall into the characterization you've presented.

 

Good luck with your future. Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

[franklyorange]

Although I have made progress with things like conversation I still am easily intimated and freeze up around anybody whom I precieve as an authority figure, whether I want to not. Although heterosexual, I have never been able to have a successful, adult relationship with a woman, possibly due to the experiences with the Sisters who taught me in school

 

Uh....this has been my life. I had an overly disciplining father that crossed the line into abuse. Your symptoms of freezing up around authority figures is pervasive in people with our background. When the situation happens, no matter how much you try to talk yourself out of the symptoms, they are there in all their power. You need to get healed deep within your heart. The inabiity to interact with girls, just another symptom of the trauma that you went through. Please consider therapy to help you. Don't try to overcome this by yourself. Your progress will be much faster if you involve professional support.

 

All the best to you. I feel for your suffering and I know that it is very real.....never to be treated in a trite manner.

[R. S. Martin]

You are every bit as traumatized as someone who fought on the worst battlefield. Maybe more so since a lot of what happened to you was when you were a child.

 

Thank you for your understanding and kind words. But no, I completely dissagree. I would not even begin to compare my experiences with someone who has seen battle. I think that would be grossly unfair to them.

 

Someone gave me the link to this thread and I'm glad i looked it up.

 

Ichabod, I read every word of this entire thread. In case you looked up my profile, you will know that I was in Mennonitism a good couple decades longer than you were--not because the religion made sense but because there was no way out. Possibly that explains our different responses to this quote about being as traumatized as a person on a battle field.

 

I would say the worst damage to me happened after age 18, or that what made it so bad was the fact that there was no relief and no escape or hope of escape. When I got to be older than Jesus--had to live longer on this planet than Jesus ever did--I began to wonder what he even knew about life and how to live it.

 

And the revered martyrs of the Reformation--the torture chamber may have been cruel but at least people died relatively quickly (within hours, days, weeks, or months). Psychological torture allowed one to live to high old age but the pain was unrelenting. I was forty. And if I was to live as long as the average person, I had forty more years to go. That is a long time. Not to mention that two of my grandparents lived to see 90+.

 

There are some important differences between your life and mine. For one, I was a girl and was not subjected to as violent physical discipline as I think my brothers were. For another, my father was at the bottom of the social ladder because of his inability to accumulate material wealth; he was far more interested in reading the newspaper and in experimenting with new ideas than in doing practical things necessary to a productive farm such as cleaning out the steer pen. I learned in my very early school days to endure the mockery of the under-dog.

 

I think my father was "redeemed" when he and Mom did more than their share in taking care of their aging parents. Also, all of their children turned out okay. I don't think anyone blamed our parents when I--and ten years later two more of my sisters--left the church as mature adults in our forties and fifties.

 

I would be interested to know, though I understand if you do not wish to disclose the information, from which Mennonite group you come. Since you don't mentioned horse and buggies, I assume you're from a very conservative car group. You do mention fancy black cars at one point--something I wouldn't understand. I mean, fancy or plain, I don't understand cars. (I don't drive due, in part, to low vision.)

 

And yes, I identify very well with the things you list about not knowing. I feel relieved just knowing that there is someone else "out here" who feels that way. Fortunately, I've been "taken out" often enough by now so that my mind no longer freezes at the sight of a menu, but "ordering" remains the worst part of the meal for me. I much prefer buffet style where one can walk along and see the items to pick out what one wants regardless of fancy name.

 

Greens, veggies, potatoes, and meat tend to look much the same no matter what fancy finishing touches give the dish its unique name. Of course, when others comment on [name of dish] I have no idea what they are talking about. I'll ask what that is and they will say, "You've got some on your plate--right there!" Oh, okay. I'm so busy figuring out how to eat amidst all these city people--and hoping that I won't inadvertently bite into an intolerable flavour they mixed in with their unfamiliar cooking styles--that I will be unable to respond intelligibly to the comment, no matter how much I would like to fit into the conversation. So I let it pass.

 

Here's a story posted on Dec. 18, 2003 by another ex horse and buggy Mennonite. Is that possibly how you found these forums? The title is ExMennonite. A friend found that story for me and it's how I found this place.

[R. S. Martin]

Ichabod, congratulations on breaking away from the religion that treated you terribly. It's also great to be able to think rationally and not have to conform to superstitious nonsense, isn't it?

 

I would recommend using a little caution, though, with regard to broad-brushed comments. For example:

 

Mennonites do not practice open communion, if you take communion that means you are on the inside, a member.

 

As this is stated, it is false. SOME Mennonites don't practice open communion, but some DO. I was associated with a Mennonite church for a number of years, and anyone in attendance could take communion, not just members.

 

Keep in mind that there are different types of Mennonites, not just the "old Mennonite order," as the ultra-conservatives are often referred to.

 

My wife is still Mennonite and her father is a Mennonite minister, and I used to teach Sunday school at a Mennonite church (until I started seeing through the bs of christianity). With all my associations with the Mennonites I'm familiar with, they are nothing like what you've described as Mennonite. They are indeed quite peaceful (albeit deluded with religious nonsense, of course).

 

I do feel for the situation you've been in, and it's great to see that you've broken free. I just wanted to clarify, though, that not all Mennonites fall into the characterization you've presented.

 

Good luck with your future. Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

 

Citsonga, I admit you do have a point. But you may have noticed that he opened his OP with the following statement:

I was born into a closed Mennonite Community in PA

Note the descriptive term "closed Mennonite Community." I think we should take the rest of the post(s) in the context of this particular "closed Mennonite Community," and not assume that the term "Mennonites" as he uses it applies to all Mennonites, even though he does not explicitly say so each and every time.

 

Those of us who grew up in and/or spent a significant portion of our lives in such a community find that outsiders normally have seriously skewed notions. Either they idealize the culture, as he has found. Or they think it's terrible to be locked away behind such archaic cultural doors. But almost without fail, people do not clue in to the actual theological situation with which the intellectually astute child and young person (and eventually adult if he/she doesn't leave) is confronted.

 

For that reason, he volunteered the information but found it burdensome--as I think would most of us--to say "closed Mennonite Community" every single time.

 

I don't know about him and the community in which he grew up. But the community in which I lived forty years, your kind of Mennonite was barely acknowledged as Mennonite for the simple reason that their outward appearance in no way resembled Mennonites. I frequently heard it said, with considerable contempt, "Yes, they call themselves Mennonite but they don't look the part."

 

On my own way out, I spent about five years in that kind of church and finally discovered that they really were Mennonite on a deep level where it counted: theology. Like our Anabaptist forebears, they did not believe in the bearing of arms, in the swearing of the oath, and in the baptizing of infants. (All of that can also be stated positively for what they do believe.)

 

That was the people in my home area at that time. I don't know if it applies world wide.

[Mriana]

Ichabod, I know of a Mennonite community here in the Ozarks and I can't say they are all friendly people. Personally I would not be surprised what all goes on within their community. They come to the city about once a month at least and some may have cell phones and others not. I got the most hateful look when I made the off comment that I didn't know Mennonites had cells. I also found it weird they even entered a Taco Bell, but they supposedly ate out sometimes. They do and she didn't like me asking questions. Others I've ran into didn't mind questions at all. Except to ride a van into town, they still ride in a horse and buggy, along the side of the highway even. I'm surprised the horses don't get spooked by the cars flying past them.

 

I have found there is a difference between Mennonites though- if the women are in all black, they are probably strict and if the women wear colours, they seem to be more lenient. Be that as it may, I doubt much of anything would surprise me about what goes on after they leave the staring eyes of the public and return to their community several miles outside of town. I would think that to be so strict, even if some do have cell phones now, it can be very well psychologically abusive and physical abuse probably comes along with it too.

 

BTW, were you of the German-Dutch variety?

[Mriana]

Ah, Du ist Deutsch. I should have read more. Wie gehts? Willkommen zu Ex-Christians. Meine Deutsch ist nicht gut.

[R. S. Martin]

Mriana, dumb Canadian here. In what state are the Ozarks? Tennessee? I'm terribly curious where these horse and buggy Mennonites are and with which Canadian group, if any, they fellowship.

 

This thing about colours in women's clothing probably says something about how liberal or conservative they are regarding clothing. Often this corresponds somewhat with worldview in general. WARNING: Worldview of people who don't have TV does not necessarily follow the same pattern of progress as did that of wider North American society.

 

For example, not all groups accept the same "worldly" concepts. I'll try to explain. Here in Southern Ontario, one group of horse and buggy Mennonites adopted telephones in about 1970 and today uses cell phones and internet for business while forbidding the use of tractors. They use electricity only from their own generators, which is seen as more conservative than plugging into the public grid of Ontario Hydro.

 

The group I come from allowed tractors ever since their invention so far as I know, as well as electricity, though not everyone ever took advantage of the permission; there were always those who "held back." However, they did not allow the telephone in homes until 1989 and forbid cell phones and computers (not to mention internet access) to this day. The other group wears darker colours than "my" group and is generally more conservative (meaning old-fashioned) in men's and women's clothing styles.

 

My group has its own church schools since the late 60s while the other group continues to use public schools. Both groups are strictly against evangelization. Both groups go only to their own church. My group does not forbid the attendance of other churches for the funeral of a relative, neighbour, or close friend, or when visiting such a person. The other group forbids attending the funeral, or having formal association outside of work, school, and business, though they believe in helping a needy neighbour.

 

Most outsiders can't tell the two groups apart. When I was a child in the sixties, before any of us had telephones and computers, there was no question that we were the more liberal group. Today, this is not so clear to my younger siblings who did not go to school with them.

 

These siblings live next door to them, and in some cases work for them. My siblings see the other group using cell phones and computers--items they themselves are not allowed to use. That my siblings have rubber tires on their buggies while the others are not allowed this luxury seems not to mean a lot these days--not like it did to us in the 60s.

 

That's one example of not all groups accepting the same worldly concepts.

[Mriana]

Mriana, dumb Canadian here. In what state are the Ozarks? Tennessee? I'm terribly curious where these horse and buggy Mennonites are and with which Canadian group, if any, they fellowship.

 

Missouri in this case, BUT the Ozarks cover a pretty big range.

 

This thing about colours in women's clothing probably says something about how liberal or conservative they are regarding clothing. Often this corresponds somewhat with worldview in general. WARNING: Worldview of people who don't have TV does not necessarily follow the same pattern of progress as did that of wider North American society.

 

For example, not all groups accept the same "worldly" concepts. I'll try to explain. Here in Southern Ontario, one group of horse and buggy Mennonites adopted telephones in about 1970 and today uses cell phones and internet for business while forbidding the use of tractors. They use electricity only from their own generators, which is seen as more conservative than plugging into the public grid of Ontario Hydro.

 

The group I come from allowed tractors ever since their invention so far as I know, as well as electricity, though not everyone ever took advantage of the permission; there were always those who "held back." However, they did not allow the telephone in homes until 1989 and forbid cell phones and computers (not to mention internet access) to this day. The other group wears darker colours than "my" group and is generally more conservative (meaning old-fashioned) in men's and women's clothing styles.

 

I'm starting to realize this. I thought they didn't have any modern technology whatsoever. I thought they had no electricity, no phones, only wore black, etc etc. I'm starting to learn, most by observation.

 

BTW, there are some groups of Fundamgelical Protestants who do not accept computers- ie my mother and aunt. They also have a hard time accepting psychologists and science in general.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Ichabod, congratulations on breaking away from the religion that treated you terribly. It's also great to be able to think rationally and not have to conform to superstitious nonsense, isn't it?

 

I would recommend using a little caution, though, with regard to broad-brushed comments. For example:

 

Mennonites do not practice open communion, if you take communion that means you are on the inside, a member.

 

As this is stated, it is false. SOME Mennonites don't practice open communion, but some DO. I was associated with a Mennonite church for a number of years, and anyone in attendance could take communion, not just members.

 

Keep in mind that there are different types of Mennonites, not just the "old Mennonite order," as the ultra-conservatives are often referred to.

 

My wife is still Mennonite and her father is a Mennonite minister, and I used to teach Sunday school at a Mennonite church (until I started seeing through the bs of christianity). With all my associations with the Mennonites I'm familiar with, they are nothing like what you've described as Mennonite. They are indeed quite peaceful (albeit deluded with religious nonsense, of course).

 

I do feel for the situation you've been in, and it's great to see that you've broken free. I just wanted to clarify, though, that not all Mennonites fall into the characterization you've presented.

 

Good luck with your future. Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

 

Citsonga, I admit you do have a point. But you may have noticed that he opened his OP with the following statement:

I was born into a closed Mennonite Community in PA

Note the descriptive term "closed Mennonite Community." I think we should take the rest of the post(s) in the context of this particular "closed Mennonite Community," and not assume that the term "Mennonites" as he uses it applies to all Mennonites, even though he does not explicitly say so each and every time.

 

I disagree. He doesn't specify that further "Monnonite" references are referring spceifically to his group. He just goes and makes broadbrushed comments about "Mennonites." Maybe I'm too much of a stickler for clarification, but clarification is important. As far as the "closed Mennonite Community in PA" comment is concerned, someone unfamiliar with Mennonites could interpret his comment as implying that all Mennonites are in closed communities and that his happened to be in PA. (As a side note, the Mennonite church I was associated with is also in PA.)

 

That's enough about that, though. This thread isn't about debating this stuff, it's about the harm that Ichabod endured at the hands of religious people, which is of more importance.

[R. S. Martin]

 

That's enough about that, though. This thread isn't about debating this stuff, it's about the harm that Ichabod endured at the hands of religious people, which is of more importance.

 

Agreed.

[silvanesti42]

Hi Ichabod, I'm sorry you had to go through all that, and I just wanted you to know that I understand where you're coming from. I'm also an ex-Mennonite of the Old Colony order. And my father was similar to your own, only he wasn't a bishop he was a Sunday school teacher, who also felt that he had an obligation to ensure that his children be "good christians".

 

Don't take offense when I say this, but some parts of your first post made me smile as I remembered what I was like the first time I was in a fast food place, Burger KIng. I had no idea what a whopper was. There's this dance that everyone knew the moves to, between the customer and the clerk, where I didn't even hear the music. It's funny how people tend to take things like that for granted.

 

What I've found after I left the community was the profound loss of kinship. Even professing the tiniest bit of doubt caused lines to be drawn in the sand and friendships and other relationships were altered or even dropped, and then it all snowballs and before you know it you're on the outside looking in. When it came to the religion aspect, that was fine with me, but my mother's over there and so are my sisters and brothers. It's sad when they can't see things from your perspective and more still when they won't even try.

 

You've a unique world view that few can relate to, and I think that I'm one of them

[Blue elephant]

Welcome to the Ex-Christian forums Silvanesti42.

 

Lots of kind gentle folk here to discuss and relate with!

[freespirit]

Hi Ichabod,

 

I'm sorry you went through the things you did...and for what it's worth, I believe you.

 

I was in a very conservative church for 19 years (women did not wear pants, cut their hair, wear make-up or jewelry. No TV or worldly music etc). I saw all kind of abuse in this group while I was in it. We were not "plain". We were Pentecostal. Most of the abuse was psychological. However, I also knew of many officials that committed adultery and one who committed suicide. I know of parents that believe that unless their "discipline" created the "blueness of a wound" that their kids weren't disciplined. My husband and I were very abused in this group and finally left after giving our lives to it. During the height of the abuse we had someone smash the headlights and taillights out of one of our vehicles and drive by our house in the middle of the night beeping their horn. This is just a small sampling of what happened. All "in the name of the Lord". The people who did these things thought they were doing "God's work". It was sick.

 

I studied Amish and Mennonite groups looking for a better way than the one we were living back when I was still living that way. I studied them for years and joined plain forums etc. A turning point for me was when I read an online book about a Swartzentruber man and all the abuse he endured. It was just sickening. I still love the idea of the plain people but know that my fantasy about them has been just that. It was just a fantasy like the church I had been a part of was a fantasy. I am done chasing rainbows.

 

I've been out of church for 6 years now.

 

Welcome to the group. You will find both positives and negatives here. I have enjoyed this forum mostly. Your thinking will be challenged for sure.