Non-Christian Dating

[freecanadian]

I was a Christian until 3 years ago and have lived in a small town since then, so my first adventure into the forays of non-Christian dating started about 8 months ago. No longer having the Christian dating criteria (ie, Is he a Christian? He's in), I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things. The dating experiences of the past 8 months have caused me more heartache than at any other time in my life and I can't help but think it's because instead of choosing out of a very small segment of the population with one criteria (believer status), there is now a seemingly limitless number of options with very little guidance. When you walk into a church, you can pretty much assume that people there are looking for a believer as a life partner, and that they will say they have the Bible's morals. If they don't actually live like that, at least there is a standard you can call them by. Outside the church, there are no common standards, and you have to wade through a lot of superficial crap to find out what people's morals are. I'm probably romanticizing Christian relationships, but they did seem a lot simpler. Ironically, at the time I thought they were boring as hell.

 

Has anyone gone through this? Or know of some reading on it, especially for ex-Christians? (Anyone who hands me a copy of The Rules gets a 10 pound Bible thrown at them)

[lunaticheathen]

I find that without the patina of "biblical morals" wrapped around the person, you just find the ugly parts of the person faster than if you were gazing at them through stained-glass specs.

Yes, you will go through more jerks, but it's better than marrying ONE jerk and being stuck with him/her. I'd rather know someone I'm dating is a loser in a week rather than after years of hiding behind dogma.

[florduh]

The irony is that you could marry one of those "sure bets" from the church of your choice and still wind up with a child molester, wife beater, closet queen, gambling addict, etc. Maybe the odds are a little better than picking someone from a bowling team, but no guarantee.

 

Groups other than church congregations (who need to maintain a certain appearance) have less need to hide their true natures. If you hang out with bird watchers and hikers, they are all very likely to be genuinely interested in nature and ecology. They don't hunt quail on weekends or dump their trash in the river. Church guys are (for example) expected to not be given to strong drink, have an eye for the ladies, favor gay marriage, vote for liberals, so things like that would be hidden from the peer group.

 

An online dating service might be helpful in narrowing down the field. Good luck.

[J.W.]

I was a Christian until 3 years ago and have lived in a small town since then, so my first adventure into the forays of non-Christian dating started about 8 months ago. No longer having the Christian dating criteria (ie, Is he a Christian? He's in), I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things. The dating experiences of the past 8 months have caused me more heartache than at any other time in my life and I can't help but think it's because instead of choosing out of a very small segment of the population with one criteria (believer status), there is now a seemingly limitless number of options with very little guidance. When you walk into a church, you can pretty much assume that people there are looking for a believer as a life partner, and that they will say they have the Bible's morals. If they don't actually live like that, at least there is a standard you can call them by. Outside the church, there are no common standards, and you have to wade through a lot of superficial crap to find out what people's morals are. I'm probably romanticizing Christian relationships, but they did seem a lot simpler. Ironically, at the time I thought they were boring as hell.

 

Has anyone gone through this? Or know of some reading on it, especially for ex-Christians? (Anyone who hands me a copy of The Rules gets a 10 pound Bible thrown at them)

 

 

You gut is worth 10 pounds of bible. Listen to it. Do not ignore it. Don't blindly trust and you shouldn't need to worry too much

[godlessgrrl]

Once you leave those "common standards" of the old system behind, the gold standard for dating values becomes you.

 

In other words, what do you want in a partner? In a relationship? What do you value? What kinds of behavior do you prefer? What are your dealbreakers? What kind of person do you like? What do you think about sex - when and why do you want it to happen?

 

Once you have those things figured out, then the options won't be limitless anymore. You'll be able to narrow down partners based on your own criteria.

 

A book I found useful was Intellectual Foreplay by Eve Hogan. It's literally chapters full of checklists of things to ask yourself and a potential partner about everything you can think of. It's a thorough inventory of your values, even if you're not in a relationship (or looking for one).

[freecanadian]

Once you leave those "common standards" of the old system behind, the gold standard for dating values becomes you.

 

In other words, what do you want in a partner? In a relationship? What do you value? What kinds of behavior do you prefer? What are your dealbreakers? What kind of person do you like? What do you think about sex - when and why do you want it to happen?

 

Once you have those things figured out, then the options won't be limitless anymore. You'll be able to narrow down partners based on your own criteria.

 

A book I found useful was Intellectual Foreplay by Eve Hogan. It's literally chapters full of checklists of things to ask yourself and a potential partner about everything you can think of. It's a thorough inventory of your values, even if you're not in a relationship (or looking for one).

 

 

I thought I knew what I wanted but after some experimentation I've discovered either I don't know, or I don't know how to recognize it when I see it. I just checked out Eve Hogan's website, there are over 50 questions just asking about vacation preferences! Awesome, nothing like thoroughness at the beginning of a relationship.

[freecanadian]

I find that without the patina of "biblical morals" wrapped around the person, you just find the ugly parts of the person faster than if you were gazing at them through stained-glass specs.

Yes, you will go through more jerks, but it's better than marrying ONE jerk and being stuck with him/her. I'd rather know someone I'm dating is a loser in a week rather than after years of hiding behind dogma.

 

I love all the words I learn while reading this forum, like 'patina': "a film or incrustation, usually green, produced by oxidation on the surface of old bronze and often esteemed as being of ornamental value". Sounds like a job for x-ray vision.

[YellowJacket]

When you walk into a church, you can pretty much assume that people there are looking for a believer as a life partner,

 

 

 

Don't confuse "dating" with "looking for a life partner".

 

Plenty of people out there are dating merely for fun, companionship, casual sex, and a short term partner.

[Guest danny64]

[

[MagickMonkey]

Take the opportunity to whore around for a while.

 

Just kidding (unless you like whoring around).

 

On a more serious note, is there really a pressing need to be in a serious relationship? Go enjoy life whether or not you are in a relationship, and if you happen to meet someone that you want to be in a serious relationship with, take it from there.

[Godless Dave]

 

Groups other than church congregations (who need to maintain a certain appearance) have less need to hide their true natures. If you hang out with bird watchers and hikers, they are all very likely to be genuinely interested in nature and ecology. They don't hunt quail on weekends or dump their trash in the river.

Nitpick: my future father-in-law is a birdwatcher who also hunts ducks and has been known to hunt pheasant and grouse. There's not necessarily a conflict there.

[DesertBob]

No longer having the Christian dating criteria (ie, Is he a Christian? He's in), I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things. The dating experiences of the past 8 months have caused me more heartache than at any other time in my life ... I'm probably romanticizing Christian relationships, but they did seem a lot simpler. Ironically, at the time I thought they were boring as hell.

I was widowed after my deconversion and so recently experienced "non-Christian" dating for the first time. I will agree that Christian relationships did SEEM a lot simpler, but the truth is that everyone is complex once you get to know them (assuming you ever know them for who they really are rather than as a series of masks).

 

I disagree that members of secular social groups are necessarily more consistently genuine 24/7 but I suppose there is at least a weak tendency in that direction. Nothing to write home about though in my view. Many people are posers, afraid to reveal their true selves. The church isn't the only source of such inhibitions.

 

I experimented with eHarmony and found it gimmicky and unimpressive. It led me to people who were of zero interest to me. I dated one a couple of times, found out she was a hoarder. Good grief. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

Eventually I met someone incidental to a now-defunct online discussion group we both participated in. It wasn't dating-related. We liked each other's writing chops and got to talking, and one thing led to another. We turned out to live 1700 miles apart, but I was in a position to relocate to her area to explore the relationship. We ended up together, though not in a hurry to marry. Long story, but we're in our 50s, both widowed, and our priorities and views about life have changed quite a bit because of it. It's not just a matter of a change of belief for me, but of particular life experiences and aging for us both.

 

I would never have given this person a second look in my Christian daze -- er, days -- and being a lifelong agnostic, she wouldn't have given me a second look had she known I was a believer. However I have to say that relationship-wise this has been the best 18 months of my life, by quite a margin, even though as with all relationships there were some challenges.

 

The moral of the story is, know thyself, be in a position to let go of the false security blanket that is "Christian values", and trust your judgment concerning what is right for you personally and as a couple, even if it results in you making some "unconventional" decisions / arrangements. I had to grit my teeth and go against 50+ years of programming to the contrary, in some respects, but it was well worth it. I have gained a terrific life companion, have had some wonderful experiences, and as a bonus, have not only won her heart but gotten to know her two delightful teens. (I know, "delightful" and "teen" don't go together readily but these are really exceptional kids).

 

The biggest irony of the whole thing is that this woman has all the supposed Christian virtues / fruits of the Spirit totally nailed in almost every respect. I've never met anyone with their sh*t so totally together and with such loyalty and integrity. In other words she's everything a Good Christian Wife ™ is supposed to be (other than a quavering doormat) and she not only did it without benefit of a church, she did it without benefit of a mother (died young) or in many respects, a father (emotionally absent). She is 100% self-taught and 110% authentic and self-made. How could I not love that!

 

I don't know what you can take away from my story for yourself but I hope you will be motivated to be patient. Try involving yourself in some way with people of like minds and interests; some of those will be of the opposite sex and eventually one of them will be prominent on your radar. Approach that person and see what happens. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

 

Good luck!

[PocketAces]

I was a Christian until 3 years ago and have lived in a small town since then, so my first adventure into the forays of non-Christian dating started about 8 months ago. No longer having the Christian dating criteria (ie, Is he a Christian? He's in), I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things. The dating experiences of the past 8 months have caused me more heartache than at any other time in my life and I can't help but think it's because instead of choosing out of a very small segment of the population with one criteria (believer status), there is now a seemingly limitless number of options with very little guidance. When you walk into a church, you can pretty much assume that people there are looking for a believer as a life partner, and that they will say they have the Bible's morals. If they don't actually live like that, at least there is a standard you can call them by. Outside the church, there are no common standards, and you have to wade through a lot of superficial crap to find out what people's morals are. I'm probably romanticizing Christian relationships, but they did seem a lot simpler. Ironically, at the time I thought they were boring as hell.

 

Has anyone gone through this? Or know of some reading on it, especially for ex-Christians? (Anyone who hands me a copy of The Rules gets a 10 pound Bible thrown at them)

No.

 

Since I have left faith, my only issues have been the same as when I was a Christian.

 

I'm a male that is a flaming hetero and I love the female body, I love the female personality but it is bittersweet because females can annoy the hell out of me as I know I can annoy the hell out of females.

 

The one thing I did notice is this:

The great letdown:

In the beginning when I left Christianity, I actually thought it'd be simpler as a non-believer. That two human beings could actually fall in love easier without the help of the gods. I mean let's face it, when we were believers, trying to find someone of similar mind boils down, to having the benefits of a belief in the Judaic god and Jesus to get you a companion, oral sex, sexual intercourse, marriage and then MAYBE a lifelong partner and a cook and protector. So take out these things that can really give a complex for men and women to live up to(Christian men that read this, don't fool yourself that you are being christ-like to your lady the first time you get her in the bedroom because you will realize that there's more to sex than 'divine' emotions after an orgasm and Christian females, if part of your definition of a christ-like man is to get you to climax more than once, you've got a funny looking Jesus perception) and I really thought things would be easier.

 

Then I started dating and the same problem of two evolved animals actually having something to last for hopefully 40/50 years is just as complex as before. The only difference now is, when we make mistakes to each other, there's nothing to erase what was done or said. There's nothing to make myself feel anymore than the way I react to the one I'm in a relationship with. So instead of reveling in how I found the angel from god in my life at all times, I can be more fickle and say after a night of hot romance, wake up to more romance and then feel so lovey dub dub and then go to another morning to waking up to thoughts like, "yeeeea...I'm in love and your point is?" and not feel guilty about it, and not think that means there is something wrong with the relationship that needs to be fixed.

 

The benefits I have gained from is:

-No more relishing with a female in relating to their sinfulness.

-No more being compared to Jesus. I like being thought of a human being and not a theorized god and man.

-Her love is not dependent on beliefs. My hope is to find a woman that stands by her man no matter what he believes in relation to the gods, religion, politics etc. In our life span on this earth in relation to existence in its fullness, we are fickle creatures with religion and politics.

-Hopefully to find a woman that doesn't regret moral decisions made.

 

 

There's only one downfall:

-I wouldn't go hunting for anti-churches to find a non-religious woman. So its a societal aspect and one that is actually easily dealt with.

 

I actually predict I'll be with a woman that has some type of belief. I may be wrong though. My last serious relationships have been with non-believers. The success rate is about the same currently.

[Objet_trouve24]

I actually didn't find dating easy at all in the church, but that may be because we were of the abstinence and no dating variety, and because I'm bisexual. However, I do think it's a lot better being able to be straight forward, have sex when it feels right (and not rush into marriage just for the wedding night), and not have to constantly check to see if you're "lusting", or feel bad about being attracted. It also means you have a lot more choice, means you can date non-christians, atheists and even liberal christians and not feel like you have to convert them to something.

 

Christian relationships seem pretty boring to me personally. I like sex, and I like learning about sex. I hated how christianity restricts such natural urges.

[MagickMonkey]

I actually didn't find dating easy at all in the church, but that may be because we were of the abstinence and no dating variety, and because I'm bisexual. However, I do think it's a lot better being able to be straight forward, have sex when it feels right (and not rush into marriage just for the wedding night), and not have to constantly check to see if you're "lusting", or feel bad about being attracted. It also means you have a lot more choice, means you can date non-christians, atheists and even liberal christians and not feel like you have to convert them to something.

 

Christian relationships seem pretty boring to me personally. I like sex, and I like learning about sex. I hated how christianity restricts such natural urges.

 

I married my first wife after knowing her(or thinking I knew her) for only a half a year in large part because I felt guilty about fucking her before getting married.

[Vomit Comet]

When I deconverted I pretty much thought "awwwright! Time to get laid." I relished the sudden absence of Puritan bullshit standing between my dick and fun.

[Vomit Comet]

It's literally chapters full of checklists of things to ask yourself and a potential partner about everything you can think of.

 

Let's see...

 

1. Is she cute?

 

2. Is she not a psycho?

 

3. Does she do it on first dates?

 

Oh, don't mind me, I'm just being an idiot. I have a fiance and am on the straight and narrow, but I remain as always a dirty filthy sleazy bastard.

[Raul]

When I deconverted I pretty much thought "awwwright! Time to get laid." I relished the sudden absence of Puritan bullshit standing between my dick and fun.

I pretty much thought "I don't need to feel guilty about masturbation anymore".

[PocketAces]

I actually didn't find dating easy at all in the church, but that may be because we were of the abstinence and no dating variety, and because I'm bisexual. However, I do think it's a lot better being able to be straight forward, have sex when it feels right (and not rush into marriage just for the wedding night), and not have to constantly check to see if you're "lusting", or feel bad about being attracted. It also means you have a lot more choice, means you can date non-christians, atheists and even liberal christians and not feel like you have to convert them to something.

 

Christian relationships seem pretty boring to me personally. I like sex, and I like learning about sex. I hated how christianity restricts such natural urges.

Interesting point...

The sex aspect changed A LITTLE BIT when I deconverted. When I was a Christian, I never could fully buy into the whole, one has to wait to have sex AFTER they are married. I lived that way for quite awhile because, I thought it was the right thing even though honestly I could not understand it. I come from a divorced home, who's father is on his 5th wife, and mother has had 2 husbands and a lot of b/f's since her 2nd marriage ended 15 years ago. Point being, you learn quick that marriage is not something worth putting stock into with your sexuality in regards to morals, ethics and your sexuality period and that was something that over time came to be the reality.

 

Then I gave my virginity to my now ex-fiancee(we broke up quite awhile ago now) and honestly...the aspect of sex became a burden. Not for any sexual reasons.

 

I had promised myself and 'god' that because I had sex with her pre-marriage that I would not breakup with her. Thankfully, at the time I really didn't want to lose her so that obligation that I put myself under to myself and to the god I believed in was made from an honest heart and honest desire for her.

 

Now I'm glad we are done and would never take her back in some strange alien world of chance that would ever happen but the point being, fickle are our emotions. It was illogical. I could have done away with the problematic post-relationship we had from the first initial breakup, which was 6 months of in and out (no pun intended) with each other in terms of being in a relationship and then a break and then back together and worked on things and then the inevitable bad ending.

 

Yet, I don't think much has changed with my thought process about sex though. Maybe how the application is applied is the only thing that changed but even that alone, is a world of difference, a change that is much better.

[PocketAces]

Plus another reason that the only things that have changed thus far is the requirements for a long term relationship and how sex is applied and affected since I became a non-believer is:

 

Something similar to what others have stated.

 

No matter what religion or if one is a non-believer, still have to watch out for the crazies. Still have to watch out that the insecure ones don't trap you. Still have to watch how much you spend on a woman. Still gotta watch out for PMS. Still have to face a more 'complex' mating ritual just as before.

[ShakenNotStirred]

I find that without the patina of "biblical morals" wrapped around the person, you just find the ugly parts of the person faster than if you were gazing at them through stained-glass specs.

Yes, you will go through more jerks, but it's better than marrying ONE jerk and being stuck with him/her. I'd rather know someone I'm dating is a loser in a week rather than after years of hiding behind dogma.

 

I agree. Sure, I've met plenty of people who I believe came out better for having grown up with the influences of Christianity, and I think a lot of that really comes from living a fulfilling life, maybe according to the "Golden Rule". I think people are happier and more satisfied overall when they realize they aren't the center of the universe. But there are plenty of people in the church who do think that way, and they learn how to maintain illusions to get what they want out of people. Those are the closet "high-conflict" freaks you have to avoid.

 

I'm married now to a beautiful Christian girl who never seemed to get the Christian part down herself, and she hasn't seemed incredibly bothered by my deconversion, so I'm lucky in that. I think she's maybe in a place that I was in, wondering why we can't "get it right".

 

All I can say on the topic is, if I had to do it all over, I'd probably change my goals and expectations. I think it would be wonderful to find someone you could love and relate to for the rest of your life, but that is damn tough these days, plus if you marry them and it doesn't work out, they walk off with half of everything you've worked hard for. Marriage is a big-time business opportunity for people these days. If someone wants to find the right person (either forever or just for now), look for someone real, honest, and emotionally healthy and stable. If they've had a lot of turmoil and problems in the past, keep that in mind. People just kinda have a way of not changing or learning anymore, but they damn sure know how to act like they have while they're sizing someone up.

[ClaraOlive]

I married my first wife after knowing her(or thinking I knew her) for only a half a year in large part because I felt guilty about fucking her before getting married.

 

I felt like I couldn't get out of an engagement that I had started to have doubts about because I felt guilty for premarital sex.

 

***

 

I feel very fortunate to have a relationship with a guy who was raised Christian but became agnostic without much drama. If I end up dating again in the future when I'm older and further removed from my Christian past, I think that it will be less important for a boyfriend to understand my past. However, when I was dating a life-long atheist some years ago, I found it frustrating that he didn't understand ANY of the things that had encompassed my entire childhood - he'd never even been to a single church service. OTOH, I don't think that I could have handled another person's family drama over deconversion at the same time as dealing with my own family.

[AKR]

I was a Christian until 3 years ago and have lived in a small town since then, so my first adventure into the forays of non-Christian dating started about 8 months ago. No longer having the Christian dating criteria (ie, Is he a Christian? He's in), I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things. The dating experiences of the past 8 months have caused me more heartache than at any other time in my life and I can't help but think it's because instead of choosing out of a very small segment of the population with one criteria (believer status), there is now a seemingly limitless number of options with very little guidance. When you walk into a church, you can pretty much assume that people there are looking for a believer as a life partner, and that they will say they have the Bible's morals. If they don't actually live like that, at least there is a standard you can call them by. Outside the church, there are no common standards, and you have to wade through a lot of superficial crap to find out what people's morals are. I'm probably romanticizing Christian relationships, but they did seem a lot simpler. Ironically, at the time I thought they were boring as hell.

 

Has anyone gone through this? Or know of some reading on it, especially for ex-Christians? (Anyone who hands me a copy of The Rules gets a 10 pound Bible thrown at them)

 

 

Church attendance and the Christian label don't exactly relate to the morality you speak of. Most people have premarital sex, including church attending Christians. Financially responsible? What in the world does this have to do with being a Christian? Not using/abusing substances? lol. Having compassion for all creatures? Wut? Yeah, you still have some of the Christian kool aid in you.

[oddbird1963]

I have tried to look for those with 'biblical' morals, ie, responsibility around finances, sex, substances, and most important, compassion for living things.

 

I think the idea of "Biblical morals" is just a symbol that gives the appearance of telling what a person is like without requiring a person to go into a thoughtful, lengthy self-disclosing narrative of what they believe is right, what they believe is wrong and the process by which they make moral decisions. If you don't want to think, reflect or struggle with the rightness or wrongness of your views and actions, then just say "I hold to biblical morals." It doesn't really say anything except maybe "stealing is wrong," "murder is wrong" and , unless I want to do differently, "sex outside of marriage is wrong."

 

I think maybe you are saying that it is simpler to date people with conventional cultural and religious views than it is to date people whose views tend to go against the grain of conventional society.

 

I think you are saying you want to date somebody who is stable, who tries to live within their means, doesn't get into demeaning and risky sexual practices and who is not self-destructive. And it sounds like you would like the person to love animals (and support animal rights?).

 

I don't know of any books on this subject, but I would say the best advice is to not get exclusive with anybody until you've seen evidence that they live up to what you value. Don't get too entangled with anybody too quickly. And definitely, don't take a person at their word about "biblical" or any other kind of morals. Look at the evidence of how they live and see if their values match your values.

[foolish girl]

I find that without the patina of "biblical morals" wrapped around the person, you just find the ugly parts of the person faster than if you were gazing at them through stained-glass specs.

Yes, you will go through more jerks, but it's better than marrying ONE jerk and being stuck with him/her. I'd rather know someone I'm dating is a loser in a week rather than after years of hiding behind dogma.

 

That is astute.