How Do You View Christianity?

[florduh]

In practice, there is a wide spectrum of "Christian" belief and practice. Some versions and practitioners seem rather harmless, while virulent strains pose an immediate danger, IMO. Of course, they all spring from the same poisonous source, so I see little wisdom or truth to be gained from any of it.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

Eh, it all depends.

 

I had a flatmate earlier in the year who had crippling depression for some years, and she started doing really well once she started going to church. I've got another friend who recently went into a coma for two weeks and almost died after getting hit by a car, and after passionate disbelief he's convinced God exists again. Yet another person has been in some bad relationships and had some bad experiences in her life, but her theism gets her through it.

 

For those people, Christianity has real benefits. They're pretty good with keeping their beliefs personal and it works for them. Personally, I can't argue with that.

 

I've seen that kind of thing and I understand where you're coming from, especially with your first and last examples. 

One of the books I read about cults made the point that although totalist/authoritarian groups are extremely manipulative, some people nevertheless seem to "do better" by certain measures in them than out of them.  For one thing, these groups impose structure and offer hope in ways that some might not have been able to find on their own. 

 

Yet as we all know, there are trade-offs.

 

Plus, people whose faith fails or who leave the group because they can't take the manipulations anymore can end up worse than before they joined, since they may have abandoned their old supports and skills in the process of taking on the ones of the group; if the latter crumble, the old ones might not be readily available to fall back on.

 

Personally, I have to question whether the people mentioned in the book would do even better if they were taught how to provide for themselves whatever it is the group provides that they find helpful.  What if people could learn self-discipline instead of being motivated by discipline from the group, for example?  Learn how to be realistically optimistic and work for progress instead of relying on the belief that God will fix things eventually?  I know that learning better skills along these lines has helped me a great deal. 

[par4dcourse]

People initially invented gods to explain thing they didn't understand. There was a lot of not understanding back when. The scientific method and modern technology can explain a lot of those unknown now, but in the religious world not understanding is still rampant. 

[Rek99]

6 months ago I would have said it's harmless..... but when it teaches people fundementally wrong things about science, the world, and about pushing their beliefs on others, and when those people can vote en-mass and get fundies in office, I say it's altogether bad.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

6 months ago I would have said it's harmless..... but when it teaches people fundementally wrong things about science, the world, and about pushing their beliefs on others, and when those people can vote en-mass and get fundies in office, I say it's altogether bad.

I agree those things are really alarming.

 

The thing I keep coming back to is that the people doing that are just one small segment of Christianity.  Small, but vocal and very mobilized.  There are a lot more really mainstream Christians out there who are much more reasonable than this particular group. 

[Ross]

With my eyes final opened to what it was all about i see it as a belief system built on fear, blood shed, genocide, rape and lies. 

[thebatman]

I don't think I have ever encountered a genuine and honest Christian. They all have this snake-like quality to them. They're slimy and squirmy, they are expert manipulators and liars. 

 

I know this sounds harsh, but it's just my experiences. Even the "nice" Christians have their weird quirks. I know one thing, I can never trust a Christian as long as I live. There's a level of denial and self-delusion that you typically see in people with personality disorders. 

 

If anything, the only "good" ones I've ever known are Catholic. They usually don't have giant sticks up their bumholes. Plus they don't read the bible which is good.

[Akheia]

I view Christianity as dangerous and harmful, especially when its source book is considered inerrant, but I know there are some lovely people in the religion. I just don't view them as good because of the religion. If someone's good, it won't matter what religion she is (or isn't). If someone's a snake, it matters even less. Over time I've come to realize that morality has absolutely nothing to do with what religion someone is. But Christianity does provide sociopaths easy access to victims, and an easy framework for controlling and disenfranchising Others, especially gays, minorities, and women.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

I don't think I have ever encountered a genuine and honest Christian.

I believe you when you say you've only experienced this in your encounters with Christians.  I have met some like that.

 

My experience is pretty different, though.  I think there are probably about as wide of a range of people in just about any religion as there are in the population generally. 

[Deva]

About "genuine" Christians.  I really think the ideals of Christianity are impossible to live up to.  Therefore, everyone walking into a church is automatically a hypocrite.  Furthermore, no one knows what Jesus really taught.

 

I COULD give Christians a break on this, but since they have to realize this after a certain number of years, I become rather harsh when they come in here proclaiming how their lives have completely changed after they were saved.

[Geezer]

I don't think I have ever encountered a genuine and honest Christian.

 

I do know one genuine Christian. Doctrine and dogma are completely irrelevant to her. She walks the walk. She is constantly on the alert to help someone in need. She pays bills for people in need, buys and delivers groceries, has cars repaired so someone can get to work, she has sat up all night with a terminally ill friend on several occasions, she is a prayer warrior for those who are suffering and in need of hope, she is constantly delivering food to someone who is sick or can’t provide for themselves, she is the most special person I’ve ever know and I’ve had the undeserved honor to have been married to her for the last forty seven years.

 

I’m no longer a believer but she is. She knows I am no longer a believer and why but she hasn’t said one word to me about it. She isn’t interested in why I am no longer a believer and I love and respect her too much to push the issue.  I continue to go to church because she doesn’t want to go alone or to deal with the reasons why I’m not there.  Giving an hour and half a week to honor her wishes certainly isn’t too much to ask of the man that she has loved unconditionally for the last forty seven plus years. And I’ve become quite adept at looking interested when I’m turning the sermon completely out and not listening to one word that’s being said.I know for certain if she walked away from Christianity nothing in her lifestyle would change. She would still be doing the same things she is doing now and living her life exactly as she always has.

 

I wish there was an afterlife because I can think of nothing I'd rather do than spend eternity with her.

[Akheia]

Damn it! Out of upvotes again. Geezer, that was beautiful.

[Rek99]

 

I don't think I have ever encountered a genuine and honest Christian.

 

I do know one genuine Christian. Doctrine and dogma are completely irrelevant to her. She walks the walk. She is constantly on the alert to help someone in need. She pays bills for people in need, buys and delivers groceries, has cars repaired so someone can get to work, she has sat up all night with a terminally ill friend on several occasions, she is a prayer warrior for those who are suffering and in need of hope, she is constantly delivering food to someone who is sick or can’t provide for themselves, she is the most special person I’ve ever know and I’ve had the undeserved honor to have been married to her for the last forty seven years.

 

I’m no longer a believer but she is. She knows I am no longer a believer and why but she hasn’t said one word to me about it. She isn’t interested in why I am no longer a believer and I love and respect her too much to push the issue.  I continue to go to church because she doesn’t want to go alone or to deal with the reasons why I’m not there.  Giving an hour and half a week to honor her wishes certainly isn’t too much to ask of the man that she has loved unconditionally for the last forty seven plus years. And I’ve become quite adept at looking interested when I’m turning the sermon completely out and not listening to one word that’s being said.I know for certain if she walked away from Christianity nothing in her lifestyle would change. She would still be doing the same things she is doing now and living her life exactly as she always has.

 

I wish there was an afterlife because I can think of nothing I'd rather do than spend eternity with her.

 

You pretty much summed up my wife, and the reasons that I still go to church with her.   Good man!

[Galien]

About "genuine" Christians.  I really think the ideals of Christianity are impossible to live up to.  Therefore, everyone walking into a church is automatically a hypocrite.  Furthermore, no one knows what Jesus really taught.

 

I COULD give Christians a break on this, but since they have to realize this after a certain number of years, I become rather harsh when they come in here proclaiming how their lives have completely changed after they were saved.

 

I always thought they were easy to live up to, I could never understand why the other christians didnt care about them. After years in and out of christianity I just realise I am weird as fuck, a tad obsessive over doing the right thing, and have ideals most people think are retarded. I can live with the shame

[Galien]

 

I don't think I have ever encountered a genuine and honest Christian.

 

I do know one genuine Christian. Doctrine and dogma are completely irrelevant to her. She walks the walk. She is constantly on the alert to help someone in need. She pays bills for people in need, buys and delivers groceries, has cars repaired so someone can get to work, she has sat up all night with a terminally ill friend on several occasions, she is a prayer warrior for those who are suffering and in need of hope, she is constantly delivering food to someone who is sick or can’t provide for themselves, she is the most special person I’ve ever know and I’ve had the undeserved honor to have been married to her for the last forty seven years.

 

I’m no longer a believer but she is. She knows I am no longer a believer and why but she hasn’t said one word to me about it. She isn’t interested in why I am no longer a believer and I love and respect her too much to push the issue.  I continue to go to church because she doesn’t want to go alone or to deal with the reasons why I’m not there.  Giving an hour and half a week to honor her wishes certainly isn’t too much to ask of the man that she has loved unconditionally for the last forty seven plus years. And I’ve become quite adept at looking interested when I’m turning the sermon completely out and not listening to one word that’s being said.I know for certain if she walked away from Christianity nothing in her lifestyle would change. She would still be doing the same things she is doing now and living her life exactly as she always has.

 

I wish there was an afterlife because I can think of nothing I'd rather do than spend eternity with her.

That is so beautiful, you have found a true gem, and it sounds like you treasure her. Made me go all mushy inside.

[Lilith666]

I tend to see Xians as honest (legally--not always the nicest people) and well-meaning, because they believe X wants them to be, not because it has any spiritual value. So it's not any more beneficial than other religions. I think it's ultimately harmful because it tells people that they are inherently sinful. It pushes them into roles that may not be suitable for them, by teaching women to submit to men, regardless of their leadership skills. Men are told that if they are not leaders, they have failed God and other Xians. This leads to insecurity in people who don't fit the Church's definition of fully-functioning women or men. It gives people artificial peace about their futures, but damages them by sending false messages.

[DrGuitar]

I just can't see how a fable with do many toxic elements could help anyone. Do done people need lies and fairy tales to cling to ? How many young peopme would be better off of their parents weren't fundies? My evangelical friend is bipolar but maybe the guilt tripping hurts him in the LR; maybe he mobilesafarishould stop thinking god cannot love him just as he is, sans Jesus? Look at the christo zionists who support Israeli oppression in gaza maybe those poor Palestinians would suffer less if the hagee's of the world stopped being lost in the horrible OT Just sayin.

[kolaida]

It's harmful.  It might be fine for the people who didn't grow up with it in a strict sense and chose to believe it later. But when you're born into it, at church every Sunday morning, evening and Wednesday, every Bible Study and youth group meeting, it's not good. Also, you have to take into account a person's genetics and what they are more prone to a well as the environment.  I was already prone to perfectionism as a child often and mixing in fundamental beliefs was not good at all. I think if I could have grown up without God and all these "extra" expectations, I would have been better off. 

 

That being said, when I was following what was required I was always confused why I was the "odd one out" if there were so many d*amn freakin xtians in the country?! WHERE were they?? Not at my school and no one my age at my church once I got to late teens/early 20s.  Oh because not everyone is fundamentalist about it.  But then you're taught dumb things about how Satan is leading people astray, etc etc.  All in all, I'd say harmful. VERY harmful.  And bad for society as a whole. 

[Guest r3alchild]

I view christianity as a spirituality, for now I do. I want to peel back the layers to get to the fruit. Is christianity any better or any worse than any other religion/spirituality. Yes and no, the truth for me is I thirst for god I thirst for spiritual meaning in my life and I allways have. So I have to keep searching for god no matter if I stay where I am or I leave.

 

I wont delete this ranting of my own bullshit, ill just add, some of what I said comes from myself. But I don't know what.

[kolaida]

I view christianity as a spirituality, for now I do. I want to peel back the layers to get to the fruit. Is christianity any better or any worse than any other religion/spirituality. Yes and no, the truth for me is I thirst for god I thirst for spiritual meaning in my life and I allways have. So I have to keep searching for god no matter if I stay where I am or I leave.

 

I wont delete this ranting of my own bullshit, ill just add, some of what I said comes from myself. But I don't know what.

 

I think the problem with most religions/beliefs is they have you relying on someone else instead of yourself for every good thing that happens. But when it's bad, it always YOUR fault and you have to pray to be shown why you're going through it or find some meaning in it instead of just accepting it's life. This is the conclusion I have come to. 

 

Maybe grow some plants or something and create some life to help with the thirst for spirituality? I know what you mean, though. Sometimes I'm itching to immerse myself in my Bible and let god speak to me. It's hard at times. 

 

You don't have to delete anything! It's good to get it all out of your head. That's what these forums are for, to help out!! 

[Endemoniada]

I think the problem with most religions/beliefs is they have you relying on someone else instead of yourself for every good thing that happens. But when it's bad, it always YOUR fault and you have to pray to be shown why you're going through it or find some meaning in it instead of just accepting it's life. This is the conclusion I have come to. 

This, so much. I used to be more ambivalent toward Christianity, now I'm convinced that it's usually negative. Even its morals are for the most part backward and stifling while actual virtues are either accredited to God, or looked down upon when they go against the church. I also agree that some people are more likely to be negatively effected by it, especially teenagers. They have enough problems as it is, they don't need religious guilt dredged on top of it. And I can't remember a time where I was ever comfortable with indoctrinating children before they get a chance to think for themselves. If an adult wants to believe, fine. If someone wants to teach their kids (at a reasonable age) fat free Christianity, fine. But I believe that teaching your kids that all their friends are going to hell because they are SO. VERY. EVIL. or that the sick mockery of love offered by god is 'true' love while the love of the unbeliever is somehow fake or selfish is abusive.

 

To me, the sickest thing about religions like Christianity is that they twist and mutate the meaning of things like love to the point that a parent can look at their innocent child, believe they are destined for Hell without the luv of Jebus, tell them so, and walk away thinking they did the right thing, suppressing any doubts they have to the contrary.

[Guest r3alchild]

You can't love if you have to love. If god demands us to love then we never really do love. Love has to be freely given not demanded to be given.

[raoul]

I can't believe this question is still being asked by some who are supposed to be out of the cult. The following brief video featuring the late Chris Hitchens, expresses it in the typical Hitchens way - brilliant. And he expresses my view about it completely - it's a fucking disease that should be as aggressively attacked in the same way as we try to stamp out other diseases.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/xJediHowieX?feature=watch

[Guest r3alchild]

I can't believe this question is still being asked by some who are supposed to be out of the cult. The following brief video featuring the late Chris Hitchens, expresses it in the typical Hitchens way - brilliant. And he expresses my view about it completely - it's a fucking disease that should be as aggressively attacked in the same way as we try to stamp out other diseases.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/xJediHowieX?feature=watch

Christianity is pandora's box

[Ravenstar]

No.. it's not. Pandora's box had hope left in it. Christianity has no hope... if one reads the Bible without twisting it, or placing a matrix of wishful thinking and modern universalism on it.. the Calvinists have it right... and that is the most abhorrent thing I can think of.

 

The Greeks were brilliant at metaphor and allegory describing the human condition - and some of them KNEW that's what it was. We still use their stories to describe the human psyche. The Hebrews, and later the Christians, don't seem to have that ability. They are barbaric, literal and unimaginative, fearful, hateful and morally juvenile... and their religion reflects that. They twist the word 'love' until it has no meaning at all. The worst part is the self-deception... even the very best sincere christian is deeply deluded.

 

I'm with Raoul... it's a virus that may once have been beneficial but has mutated to something deadly and poisonous to modern society and psychological and emotional health.