How Do You View Christianity?

[raoul]

The worst part is the self-deception... even the very best sincere christian is deeply deluded.
I'm with Raoul... it's a virus that may once have been beneficial but has mutated to something deadly and poisonous to modern society and psychological and emotional health.

 

How many ways can I say thank you Ravenstar? Especially after the past few days slinging mud back and forth with them over at various YouTube message strings which followed HItchens-Craig and Shook-Craig debates. The tapdancing and ofuscation by them is becoming tedius to say the least. One of them even had the gall to tell me to stop using the bible as a source since I don't believe in its truths in the first place. I tried explaining how the most effective weapon in a debate is your opponent's own sources. And they pick and choose which arguments to address while ignoring the more challenging ones. I'm now waiting for one to show me proof that Paul actually was martyred for their cult. I cited the very last part in Acts where the writer said nothing about this but of course it will probably be ignored by them. Thanks again!

[raoul]

And for those who object to those of us who attack them without mercy - I take my marching orders from the late Christopher Hitchens. The only way we can keep him alive among us is to pick up his torch and fight on, waving it in their myopic faces.

[darlingtheo]

I marked a couple different answers. While on the surface benign and even helpful to some (as in, offering solace to grieving people or strength and courage in times of oppression), I believe that Christianity in a larger context is at once absurd and dangerous to the point of causing real harm to individuals, communities, and societies. It's certainly more palatable when practiced with a liberal application of texts and teachings, but it just seems so unnecessary to me now, and it's only when distancing oneself from a lot of really horrible shit (in text, and in history) that you can even get to that place anyway. 

[FloridaGirl]

It is beneficial to some people. In tough situations, some people can find comfort in it. My ex-boyfriend , for instance, wanted to kill himself. Then, when he became a Christian, he did not want to kill himself anymore. It gave him hope. Whatever gets people out of bed in the morning is fine with me.

 

There are instances where religion can be harmful. I did not select "fundamentalism" on the poll as something that can be harmful because it is not the strength of someone's beliefs that bothers me. It is only when people use their beliefs to be intolerant or bigoted towards others which bothers me.

 

Overall, I think the world would still be the same without religion. Judgemental people would find something else to judge people about, and desperate people would find something else to hope in. People will be people...

[VacuumFlux]

There are instances where religion can be harmful. I did not select "fundamentalism" on the poll as something that can be harmful because it is not the strength of someone's beliefs that bothers me. It is only when people use their beliefs to be intolerant or bigoted towards others which bothers me.

 

My object to fundamentalism isn't the strength of the beliefs (and there are plenty of liberal christans that fundies would call "wishy-washy" that actually are quite strong in their beliefs), but rather the literalism and legalism of how they live out their beliefs. The fundies I grew up with were all very fearful of sin, of outsiders, etc, and that leads them to do some rather immoral things (perhaps one could even say unchristian things).

 

For those of you who are familiar with the idea of the multiple categories of morality, the fundies have WAY WAY too much emphasis on purity. Here's a wikipedia page about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt#Moral_Foundations_Theory

 

 

Haidt found that the more politically liberal or left-wing people are, the more they tend to value care and fairness (proportionality), and the less they tend to value loyalty, respect for authority and purity. Conservatives or right-wing people, tend to value all the moral foundations somewhat equally. Similar results were found across the political spectrum in other countries.^[14]

 

In contrast to that statement, the fundies as I know them value purity not equally to, but greather than, care and fairness. Second on the list would be respect for authority. Third would in ingroup loyalty. The "being nice" ones about care vs harm and libery vs oppression were never permitted to contradict the ideas of purity or authority. Just look at the way they treat gays. You're only allowed to be nice to them as human beings if there's no chance of you being contaminated by contact with their icky gayness. If there's any chance of you being polluted, they don't deserve liberty to be themselves. That's why they're so against gay marriage - they consider homosexuallity to be impure, to pollute society, and therefore are baffled by liberals arguing about it in terms of equal rights.

[Deva]

I am thinking recently that the Baptist Christian I was raised with doesn't even qualify as a religion.  There was nothing spiritual about it. It was all about beliefs and if you had the correct belief you were OK and if not, you were going to hell.  It was so childish and backward. 

 

There was no ritual to it and not a thing except a book and some preacher's interpretation.  It was strictly a product of the 19th and early 20th centuries and a reaction against science and the modern world. It bore zero resemblance to even any form of Christianity as practiced in the centuries prior to the reformation, and it is the nadir of spirituality.  To be fair to Christianity (yep, I can do that now!) it was a very poor representation.  Even so, all Christianity is based upon Jewish apolcalyptic teachings combined with other mystery religions and pagan ideas and now that I know at least the outlines of how it actually originated, the whole basis of it has been destroyed.

[raoul]

 

Overall, I think the world would still be the same without religion. Judgemental people would find something else to judge people about, and desperate people would find something else to hope in. People will be people...

I couldn't disagree with you more! Study after study has show the OPPOSITE. Examples:

1. In countries where religion is all but dead (Sweden, Denmark, Japan, France, etc.), people live healthier, more stable, and safer lives

2. Even in our country where you have red states which are the most religious, crime, divorce rates, illiteracy rates, teen pregnancies, poverty, et.al, surpass any of those in blue states which mirror the countries just cited by me.

[Brother Jeff]

Christianity is mythological bullshit. While some seem to benefit from belief, the potential for significant harm is there -- especially with extreme forms of fundamentalism.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

1. Altogether harmful because its basic premises are dangerous 
2. Totally worthy of ridicule and scorn
3. I just don't care whether it exists or not
4. Other (add your own in the posts) (9 votes [4.07%])

Other - It's helpful to no one. It has them accept defeat as a matter of a path, instead of working on your own shit to improve your life and the world. "God will save us!" "Use and abuse the earth because its almost over anyway" are sentances you see coming out of religions like this.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

1. Altogether harmful because its basic premises are dangerous
2.  
3.  
4.  
5. Totally worthy of ridicule and scorn
6.  
7.  
8.  
9. I just don't care whether it exists or not
10.  
11.  
12.  
13. Other (add your own in the posts) (9 votes [4.07%])
14.  
15.  
16.  

Other - It's helpful to no one. It has them accept defeat as a matter of a path, instead of working on your own shit to improve your life and the world. "God will save us!" "Use and abuse the earth because its almost over anyway" are sentances you see coming out of religions like this.

 

 

Originally I voted for "Altogether harmful because its basic premises are dangerous." But I am now thinking about changing my answer to other. I see Christianity and other religions like it that give believers an extremely narrow-minded view of reality as a drug. It's a drug that gives the user a good high when they take it, but it has a lot of absolutely nasty side effects.

 

It is extremely addicting and trying to quit is almost as painful as ripping a piece of your body off and then you've got to deal with the withdrawal, which comes in the form of fearing Hell, still judging people negatively for stupid reasons, or missing the good feelings and the hope that the religion provides. If a person wants to try smoking some religious dogma, then I can't and won't stop them from trying it. I'm not going to tie everyone down and say "NO!" They had just better be prepared to deal with the consequences that religious dogma will have on their life. For some, the side effects are less severe than for others, that usually varies, but for many, like me, the side effects of religious dogma were absolutely terrible. What you describe BD are some of those nasty side effects.

[Geezer]

This thread caught my eye a few days ago, and since then I’ve been pondering the question how do I view Christianity now? Religion, like a lot of things, exhibits both positive and negative traits. Religion, especially Christianity, generally does motive people to be more compassionate, understanding, generous, and forgiving. Admittedly, the way people often exhibit those qualities is flawed but since we’re all human just about everything we do fails to live up to the standards we advocate. Since we all realize that is true we tend to focus on the ideal and intent rather than the reality.

 

The good things about religion, and specifically Christianity, are, IMO, very good indeed. Churches are filled with a lot of kind, generous, loving and compassionate people. A lot of good deeds are done on a daily basis in the name of Jesus. The hungry are fed, the sick receive treatment, and the homeless are provided for.  Then there is the sense of community and fellowship that is also provided by religion.

 

I think fairness requires acknowledgement that Christianity, religion, isn’t all bad. That said, like any human institution, religion, Christianity, has a dark side too. And then there is the problem of living in a make believe reality that pretty much requires the rejection of any scientific teaching or technology that appears to challenge the dogma and traditions of the church. Unfortunately, the  dark side of religion is indeed very dark. The manipulation, fear, indoctrination, extortion, and control are indeed an abysmal attribute that is also part of the package. And I honestly don’t see how those negative aspects can be eliminated because church is a human creation and organization and therefore susceptible to all the negative traits all humans possess.

 

The flip side of the coin, atheism, isn’t all peaches and cream either. Unrestrained freedom, due to the nature of humans, is a scary concept. Maybe it’s just me but since I’ve walked away from religion I’ve discovered I have decidedly less empathy , I’m less compassionate and clearly more reluctant to be as generous as I was when I was a Christian. I’ve just begun to acknowledge those tendencies in myself and that concerns me. Without the fear of hell, my only restraint is the law, and I see myself leaning towards the idea that if it ain’t illegal it’s okay, but I know that isn’t true. Lots of stuff isn’t illegal but it can still be harmful and destructive.

 

I don’t regret walking away from Christianity. I had no choice when I discovered none of it was true in any literal or historic sense. Since I’m unequally yoked I still attend church but it’s meaningless. We recently switched from a fundamentalist congregation to a very liberal Christian group. I thought that might help but it didn’t or at least as much as I had hoped.   I’m not, however, subjected to the same monolog of hell, fire, damnation, sin, and forgiveness every week now. Jesus is still part of the program, but this version of Jesus is decidedly a much more friendly and less judgmental one.

[directionless]

Geezer, do you think you would have been better off if you had never discovered the facts that caused you to lose faith in Christianity?

[Ralet]

 I’m less compassionate and clearly more reluctant to be as generous as I was when I was a Christian. I’ve just begun to acknowledge those tendencies in myself and that concerns me. Without the fear of hell, my only restraint is the law, and I see myself leaning towards the idea that if it ain’t illegal it’s okay, but I know that isn’t true. Lots of stuff isn’t illegal but it can still be harmful and destructive.

It is up to you to define your moral-standards and the way you act, now. "if it ain’t illegal it’s okay"- ok for who?society? if you dont want to do harmful stuff, then dont. just because something is allowed doesnt mean you are obligated to behave like the rest of society. i think it is liberating that we dont have to follow christian rules anymore, but we can keep the rules that are useful. it takes more willpower to live morally without the pressure from the fear of hell, but it is still possible. if think you are not donating as much as you did in church, you could plan to donate a certain mount every month/year and stick to it. the best thing is that you can choose freely where you want to donate it to and you can choose organizations that are trustworthy.

the whole "hate yourself, love your neighbor ,turn the other cheek"-mentality is not a good way of living. maybe you felt more compassionated and forgiving but in the end, you only did it because you had to and it probably wasnt good for yourself. i felt obligated to forgive everybody, love everybody, help everybody, even if they didnt deserve it. if you forgive somebody that threats you like shit, isnt that like thinking "its ok to be treated like that" which is not far way from "maybe i deserve to be treated like shit/may it is my fault".

 

to the ot: i think christianity can be good for people that need stability, rules, an easy answer to the questions of life and/or community, but it is mainly bad because it prevents people from thinking on their own and harms people.

[gall]

 

 I’m less compassionate and clearly more reluctant to be as generous as I was when I was a Christian. I’ve just begun to acknowledge those tendencies in myself and that concerns me. Without the fear of hell, my only restraint is the law, and I see myself leaning towards the idea that if it ain’t illegal it’s okay, but I know that isn’t true. Lots of stuff isn’t illegal but it can still be harmful and destructive.

It is up to you to define your moral-standards and the way you act, now. "if it ain’t illegal it’s okay"- ok for who?society? if you dont want to do harmful stuff, then dont. just because something is allowed doesnt mean you are obligated to behave like the rest of society. i think it is liberating that we dont have to follow christian rules anymore, but we can keep the rules that are useful. it takes more willpower to live morally without the pressure from the fear of hell, but it is still possible. if think you are not donating as much as you did in church, you could plan to donate a certain mount every month/year and stick to it. the best thing is that you can choose freely where you want to donate it to and you can choose organizations that are trustworthy.

the whole "hate yourself, love your neighbor ,turn the other cheek"-mentality is not a good way of living. maybe you felt more compassionated and forgiving but in the end, you only did it because you had to and it probably wasnt good for yourself. i felt obligated to forgive everybody, love everybody, help everybody, even if they didnt deserve it. if you forgive somebody that threats you like shit, isnt that like thinking "its ok to be treated like that" which is not far way from "maybe i deserve to be treated like shit/may it is my fault".

 

to the ot: i think christianity can be good for people that need stability, rules, an easy answer to the questions of life and/or community, but it is mainly bad because it prevents people from thinking on their own and harms people.

 

 

How can you say it can be good for some when ALL that come to it are enticed by a LIE, a bold and obvious lie. The second half of your statement is the reason the first part is not ok. It can never be good for anyone as long as judgement, hypocracy and moral superiority are the basis of a religion. I cannot think of many which do not follow those basic creeds. I know a few people in them that are not like that but I see the pain in their eyes when you talk about how many that say they are like them and they find out they are just as big a lie as the religion.

 

Religion is not a good thing one day the human race will grow the shit up and realize we are no longer need the control of religion or the lies it offers us. We will grow and in doing so begin a better journey as a race.

[Geezer]

Geezer, do you think you would have been better off if you had never discovered the facts that caused you to lose faith in Christianity?

 

No. I do not regret walking away from Christianity. I think I am just now coming to the realization that so much of who I thought I was wasn't really me at all. I had become an indoctrinated clone. I was programmed to think and act in ways that conformed to the herd. Now that I am free I have come to the realization I don't know who I really am. I have become so open minded that not much of anything offends me now and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I assume this is just another phase in my journey that I have to work out.

 

[Lilith666]

Can't remember if I replied to this or not, but I went for number 4. 5 is also true (a sacred zombie saved the world *snickers*) but mainly, Xianity causes guilt, self-doubt, repression, resentment, and animosity between sects.

 

-The doctrine that we are all responsible for the murder of a person who died before we were born, because of the provoked curiosity of people who lived 6,000 years ago. Major guilt.

 

-"You can do nothing without god." People who wait for god to direct them will likely do nothing or go down the wrong path.

 

-I wonder how many independent women, gay people, or those who have had an abortion hate themselves because the bible and its fundy minions say they are screwed up or down right evil.

 

-Lust is a sin. That probably causes 90% of the abuse people shower on themselves, their children, or parishioners.

 

-According to the bible, women can't speak in church or preach--there's another example of repression. Likewise, men are expected to be leaders whether they have the ability or not, and if not, the holy spirit will supposedly help them. People have to ignore their natural talents or try to be something they aren't because Paul wanted to fit each gender into a very well-defined, unrealistic role. And I used to hate men because they got to decide (to an extent) where their own lives went without feeling sick about it.

 

-Love your absent holy father with all your heart or you are breaking the greatest commandment. Again, guilt.

 

-The fundamentalist suspicion of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Hate, hate, hate this. As far as I can see, these other two branches aren't any better than the first one as far as the above points go, but they aren't heathens, either. Xians get far too uptight about this one.

 

Xianity, except for the far-left sect that isn't really Xian at all, is a load of toxic garbage.

[DrGuitar]

It is truly an insult to humanity

 

idiotic and despicable

 

its a true "Mind Fuck"

and I pity the people lost in it

[spiritrider2013]

I think Christianity is dangerous and evil. The concept of evil is a biblical doctrine. People groups have used doctrines as an excuse and and a way of sanitizing racism and hatred. I kind of think that more lives were lost through the doctrine of discovery then through terrorism and wars (almost all a result of religious beliefs). The "doctrine of discovery" was a law that stated that if one was not a Christian they could not own land. Armed with this doctrine, the Europeans arrived on this continent and almost annihilated all the aboriginal population-all in the name of Jesus. All over the world this doctrine was used to destroy people groups and steal their land. Non-Christians were considered non-human and so exterminating them was accepted and encouraged. I was part of this religion and I could no longer accept racism or hatred of any kind. I walked away from the church several years ago and just recently began running as fast as I could once I realized what religion was all about. 

[Chikirin]

 

Maybe it’s just me but since I’ve walked away from religion I’ve discovered I have decidedly less empathy , I’m less compassionate and clearly more reluctant to be as generous as I was when I was a Christian. I’ve just begun to acknowledge those tendencies in myself and that concerns me. Without the fear of hell, my only restraint is the law, and I see myself leaning towards the idea that if it ain’t illegal it’s okay, but I know that isn’t true.

 

it's not just you, this describes me as well.

[MetalFace]

Dangerous, harmful and worthy of scorn.

 

I understand the evolutionary need for religion, sure, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of it or condone it.

[Blood]

 

Geezer, do you think you would have been better off if you had never discovered the facts that caused you to lose faith in Christianity?

 

No. I do not regret walking away from Christianity. I think I am just now coming to the realization that so much of who I thought I was wasn't really me at all. I had become an indoctrinated clone. I was programmed to think and act in ways that conformed to the herd. Now that I am free I have come to the realization I don't know who I really am. I have become so open minded that not much of anything offends me now and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I assume this is just another phase in my journey that I have to work out.

 

 

Oh no! Moral relativism! 

[FreeRadical]

I think Christianity has its benefits and pitfalls.

 

Benefits

It's a religion that people can believe in and feel spiritually secure.

 

It provides great moral potential.

 

There's no limit to how devout one can be.

 

Pitfalls

Depending on the interpretation, one can feel extremely insecure spiritually.

 

Depending on the interpretation, it can create psychopathic immorality. I think not just of individual and diagnosable psychopathy, but of the bloody wars throughout history in the name of Christianity.

 

It has a dualistic mode in its motivation for its practice; there's both the fear of hell and the desire to be righteous for the sake of itself. It is an exclusionary religion, psychologically very painful and even perilous to leave because of the fear of hell and the Wrath of God. This reason alone stands as a testament to Christianity's harmfulness.