Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

You Give Love A Bad Name


Paradox

Recommended Posts

No, I am not about to brag about the time I met Bon Jovi (Oh, what the hell :), yes I did meet him once [in the Oxford Union, where all the great and the good -- and many bad also -- come to give a talk], and chatted to his wife and kids in the Union bar, in 2001; he's nice guy; from about a yard away, I asked him one question: 'Do you have a faith?' and he answered 'Catholic. Recovering Catholic'. I only mention this because it's germane to this forum's outlook.)

 

More to the point, for all the huge amount of negative sentiments directed towards Christianity on this forum, I suggest we ought not to be quite so one-sided. It is well worth separating the two concepts of church and faith. The second of those can be very honourable indeed, while the former often strays, and strays badly.

 

I often wish I myself had attended a school (and a had family, if I could choose my family!) in which, generally, the people adhered sensitively to a Christian -- in the best sense -- outlook. The reality was that I was habitually bullied by materialistic, arrogant, cruel, hormone-packed, Godless bastards, who, as a result of their actions, have infested me with demons (I speak figuratively, of course :) ). In fact, it was -- on the whole -- only the Christians in the school who spared a thought for me as a victim of the kind I describe above. One or two of them were even prepared to take action in my favour, at the risk of their own personal safety or reputation. All the other kids were too bound up with their own 'image'.

 

I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Christianity -- or at least theism, oriented towards a God of love -- of a liberal kind. Love's a good thing, isn't it?!

Of course, there is the old adage of Baron Acton: power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Church has long been an instrument of power.

Christians *can* be great. Just as long as they are not sealed off in their own Christian schools, their Christian camps, and so on, talking only to others of their own beliefs and exalting themselves with their conceits. Let us get them in amongst people who *need* their sense of principle. (As long as this is a genuinely virtuous -- and not merely a self-righteous -- sense of principle.)

 

PS In my quoting the Bon Jovi song title as the subject line for this post, the word 'You' is not intended to refer to contributors to this server; rather, to churches that promote a sociological mindset that is anything other than that of being a Samaritan (which, sadly, churches generally do).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More to the point, for all the huge amount of negative sentiments directed towards Christianity on this forum, I suggest we ought not to be quite so one-sided.

Many who leave Christianity have a need of expressing their negative sentiments towards Christianity.

 

Where should they go? This website was created for them. If it doesn't fit you, then this website isn't for you. Simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

More to the point, for all the huge amount of negative sentiments directed towards Christianity on this forum, I suggest we ought not to be quite so one-sided.

Many who leave Christianity have a need of expressing their negative sentiments towards Christianity.

 

Where should they go? This website was created for them. If it doesn't fit you, then this website isn't for you. Simple as that.

 

Wish I could give you a +10 for that reply!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

For a lot of us, this website is the only place where we can safely vent, rant, rage, cry, and be comforted from the ills of religion and its followers. Don't try to remake our sanctuary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't try to remake our sanctuary.

I noticed it's very popular for newcomers to tell us (or rather command us) how we should behave to fit their ideals. Very irritating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More to the point, for all the huge amount of negative sentiments directed towards Christianity on this forum, I suggest we ought not to be quite so one-sided.

Many who leave Christianity have a need of expressing their negative sentiments towards Christianity.

 

Where should they go? This website was created for them. If it doesn't fit you, then this website isn't for you. Simple as that.

 

Well, let's put it this way: I thought it was one-sidedness of ideals/ideology/argumentation that you were, in essence, loathing. I still think you are remiss for neglecting the distinction between church and faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, let's put it this way: I thought it was one-sidedness of ideals/ideology/argumentation that you were, in essence, loathing. I still think you are remiss for neglecting the distinction between church and faith.

How do you know? Have you been here long enough to know who this website is for and how it works? You've been here a friggin' few weeks and think already you know what this website is about and demand that it changes according to your ideas!

 

You "thought?" Perhaps you thought wrong? Or perhaps you just didn't spend enough really thinking about things.

 

And seriously, even if the purpose of this website was because of some one-sidedness of ideals or ideology, is your answer to this one-sidedness to tell everyone that they should not express what they feel and should follow your proscription of decorum?

 

Who are you? The God of Forums and now we must obey?

 

Begone Satan! :HaHa:

 

Paradox, here's a piece of advice. If you don't like it here, then don't try to change this place. Go and start your own forum instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Christianity

 

It sucks, for example. So does bon jovi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

Christianity is what it is. You can repackage or redefine it as you wish, but you can't sell it here.

 

I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Christianity -- or at least theism, oriented towards a God of love -- of a liberal kind.

Now you're just making up shit. Christianity is a religion of faith that has its roots firmly in the Bible, and the god described in that book is their god for better or worse. The word "liberal" can hardly be applied to the Christian god.

 

I think you may be suffering from polished turd syndrome.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

How do you know? Have you been here long enough to know who this website is for and how it works? You've been here a friggin' few weeks and think already you know what this website is about and demand that it changes according to your ideas!

 

You "thought?" Perhaps you thought wrong? Or perhaps you just didn't spend enough really thinking about things.

 

And seriously, even if the purpose of this website was because of some one-sidedness of ideals or ideology, is your answer to this one-sidedness to tell everyone that they should not express what they feel and should follow your proscription of decorum?

 

Who are you? The God of Forums and now we must obey?

 

Begone Satan! :HaHa:

 

Animated. I like that :). Is there a 'meta-super-moderator' here who can keep an eye on the kind of fire-spitting that you yourself, dear super-moderator, indulge in? </joke>

It's just that when I read the testimonies, I get a real sense of invective towards Christianity. And, I feel, with domain name like 'ex-Christian.net', the onus is on you to prove that you are not trying to traduce those who acted as my friends at school (by whom I mean those who protected me -- the smallest, palest, weediest person in my year, in my teens -- from the bullying bastards).

BTW I didn't quite get your phrase 'proscription of decorum'. Never encountered that one before.

You seem to view me as 'the horned one' who is out to recruit people back to.... oh, I shan't say it!

I thought my point was quite reasonable. We've all got to be sensitive to the range of different backgrounds and predicaments that people are from when they come here, haven't we! Not everyone has had your (evidently embittering) experience, whatever that might be.

PS Have you finished reading that Lloyd Pye article?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

How do you know? Have you been here long enough to know who this website is for and how it works? You've been here a friggin' few weeks and think already you know what this website is about and demand that it changes according to your ideas!

 

You "thought?" Perhaps you thought wrong? Or perhaps you just didn't spend enough really thinking about things.

 

And seriously, even if the purpose of this website was because of some one-sidedness of ideals or ideology, is your answer to this one-sidedness to tell everyone that they should not express what they feel and should follow your proscription of decorum?<br><br>Who are you? The God of Forums and now we must obey?

 

Begone Satan!

/quote]

 

Animated. I like that :). Is there a 'meta-super-moderator' here who can keep an eye on the kind

of fire-spitting that you yourself, dear super-moderator, indulge in? </joke>

It's just that when I read the testimonies, I get a real sense of invective towards Christianity. And, I feel, with domain name like 'ex-Christian.net', the onus is on you to prove that you are not trying to traduce those who acted as my friends at school (by whom I mean those who protected me -- the smallest, palest, weediest person in my year, in my teens -- from the bullying bastards).

 

BTW I didn't quite get your phrase 'proscription of decorum'. Never encountered that one before.<br>You seem to view me as 'the horned one' who is out to recruit people back to.... oh, I shan't say it!

 

I thought my point was quite reasonable. We've all got to be sensitive to the range of different backgrounds and predicaments that people are from when they come here, haven't we! Not everyone has had your (evidently embittering) experience, whatever that might be.

 

PS Have you finished reading that Lloyd Pye article?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would venture to suggest that the people who were nice to you were christians because they were already decent human beings, which is why I was a christian. Seemed like a natural progression.

 

Christianity has had a negative impact on people here and they are quite within their rights to express that, and this is a great place to do it. One of the things I hated most about christians was how quick they were to dismiss the concerns of those who were not happy with the church, as though it could do no wrong.

 

Christianity has a long history of fucking things and people up. No point hiding from it, or pretending it didn't happen to people Paradox. Christians seem good at avoiding anything they construe as negative critisicm. I thought that christians were meant to be honest, but they aren't because they won't even admit the evil they do to others. Kind of contravenes the whole point of being a christian in the first place really, if you can't even tell the truth.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've known ex-fundies that found solace in liberal Christian groups, it feels good to be with people who will take your side,, but if you're really trying to escape the madness of your past religious beliefs, it's best to shed them all together instead of trying to hold on them by choosing a liberal slant. The reason is because you never really become free, you're still stuck the old belief system. It's like polishing a turd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Animated. I like that :). Is there a 'meta-super-moderator' here who can keep an eye on the kind of fire-spitting that you yourself, dear super-moderator, indulge in? </joke>

That would be the owner of the website, webmaster Dave.

 

Unfortunately for you, most of the time he agrees with me. The only time we disagree is when I keep crazy people around and prefer if they were banned. He's faster on the trigger button than me. Some say I'm more patient than both Dave and Kevin (the other super-mod). Talk to them. Then you're most likely gone within five. Up to you.

 

It's just that when I read the testimonies, I get a real sense of invective towards Christianity. And, I feel, with domain name like 'ex-Christian.net', the onus is on you to prove that you are not trying to traduce those who acted as my friends at school (by whom I mean those who protected me -- the smallest, palest, weediest person in my year, in my teens -- from the bullying bastards).

Why do you feel that the onus is on us to prove anything to you? Who are you to demand such a thing? Who died and made you king?

 

BTW I didn't quite get your phrase 'proscription of decorum'. Never encountered that one before.

You seem to view me as 'the horned one' who is out to recruit people back to.... oh, I shan't say it!

Eh. No. I don't see you as someone trying to recruit people back. I see you more like a fringe loon.

 

I thought my point was quite reasonable. We've all got to be sensitive to the range of different backgrounds and predicaments that people are from when they come here, haven't we! Not everyone has had your (evidently embittering) experience, whatever that might be.

Actually, I don't have any bad experience with Christians... until I started to meet evangelical Christians on this website, trying to re-convert fellow non-believers. My resentment has grown after my de-conversion, not before.

 

And over the years, a majority of the members here had a thousand fold worse experience than me. And I had to learn to respect their need of expressing their anguish and invective (as you pointed out) feelings towards Christianity.

 

It's not your place to judge them. But it's my place to ensure they have a place to do it.

 

That you even challenge this only proves that you have failed to understand the people here.

 

PS Have you finished reading that Lloyd Pye article?

Nah. But I will with time. I'm too busy keeping spammers away from this website, developing software, and working on calculus problems.

 

You might think that this website is a perfect place to grow your ideas, but you're mistaken. This is probably not the place for you.

 

Again, if you don't like it here, start your own website instead of wasting Dave's harddisk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

This is probably not the place for you.

 

 

I kindda take your point, but I also find it hard to see how anyone can enjoy preaching to the converted. Sorry, deconverted. Don't you guys like a bit of spice, a bit of pluralism, a bit of contrast of viewpoint, here and there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

More to the point, for all the huge amount of negative sentiments directed towards Christianity on this forum, I suggest we ought not to be quite so one-sided. It is well worth separating the two concepts of church and faith. The second of those can be very honourable indeed, while the former often strays, and strays badly.

 

 

I am curious what definition of faith you are using.

 

In my experience, the definition that best defines faith in regards to nearly every theist I have ever encountered is, "a belief that is not based upon evidence or reason."

In this case, I can not share your sentiment of faith being honorable. Believing things for reasons that are not evidence or reason based seems to me to be the worst thing about religion, and the single most important reason that churches go awry so often.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that christians were meant to be honest, but they aren't because they won't even admit the evil they do to others. Kind of contravenes the whole point of being a christian in the first place really

 

You make my point for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

This is probably not the place for you.

 

 

I kindda take your point, but I also find it hard to see how anyone can enjoy preaching to the converted. Sorry, deconverted. Don't you guys like a bit of spice, a bit of pluralism, a bit of contrast of viewpoint, here and there?

Some do, some don't.

 

And you have to understand the difference between having a "preaching" website where some kind of action is present to get a message out to the public, and a website where people come to release what's on their mind and find equal minded.

 

In other words, this is not a preaching website, nor is it a place with a some leader and followers trying to reach the public with the "good news."

 

That you would think that only shows that you haven't really figured out what this place is.

 

This place is a place where someone who left Christianity can come and express their feelings about it.

 

You're not one of them. So don't tell them (or me) what we "should" do or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, to be serious, there are evidently some very emotionally fraught personal testimonies that people relate to this messageboard, and when situations get quite so critical and so strained, I always think it does well to present a balanced viewpoint, not one that this infused with invective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is probably not the place for you.

 

 

I kindda take your point, but I also find it hard to see how anyone can enjoy preaching to the converted. Sorry, deconverted. Don't you guys like a bit of spice, a bit of pluralism, a bit of contrast of viewpoint, here and there?

 

Mate after 36 years of listening to christianity, I don't really want to hear any more from them. I probably know it all better than they do anyway :) Not only did the church let me down, faith let me down as well. I really really really believed god was there and that he loved me and gave a shit. I was wrong. If he is there, he is way too silent, I am tired of one sided relationships.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, to be serious, there are evidently some very emotionally fraught personal testimonies that people relate to this messageboard, and when situations get quite so critical and so strained, I always think it does well to present a balanced viewpoint, not one that this infused with invective.

And no one stops you from creating a website with your own rules where you can do that. Please do!

 

Until then, don't try to change this place.

 

Or better yet, you present your balanced view and let's see what kind of response you get. (I know it won't be pretty.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, to be serious, there are evidently some very emotionally fraught personal testimonies that people relate to this messageboard, and when situations get quite so critical and so strained, I always think it does well to present a balanced viewpoint, not one that this infused with invective.

 

Nothing you could ever say could lessen my anger at the church and their mind numbing lack of love. Nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, to be serious, there are evidently some very emotionally fraught personal testimonies that people relate to this messageboard, and when situations get quite so critical and so strained, I always think it does well to present a balanced viewpoint, not one that this infused with invective.

 

Come on, the rest of the world is full of viewpoints which favor religion, I can hardly go out my door some days without coming into contact with it. Why is it wrong for people to want one small corner of the net in which that does not happen?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And no one stops you from creating a website with your own rules where you can do that. Please do!

 

Until then, don't try to change this place.

 

Or better yet, you present your balanced view and let's see what kind of response you get. (I know it won't be pretty.)

 

If you'll allow me, I'll go for your 'better yet' option -- but not all in one go... (but... Man, I've already related some of it! You don't like liberal theism, right?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
No, to be serious, there are evidently some very emotionally fraught personal testimonies that people relate to this messageboard.....

And your message is . . . wait for it . . . they didn't experience True Christianity (of which you will gladly enlighten us).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.