411 replies to this topic

[Prestissimo]

centauri, on 22 February 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Thumbelina, on 22 February 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Jesus quoted the law and the prophets which was the OT, if His people did what they were supposed to do then God would not have had to expound via a NT. A follower of Jesus quotes the entire biblebecause the entire bible is in harmony and tne NT complements the OT.

As has been repeatedly shown on this forum, the New Testament is not in harmony with the Old Testament.
The New Testament is revisionist theology which contradicts many of the precepts of the Old Testament.
There is no salvation in an illegal human sacrifice, nor did Jesus fulfill the requirements of a king messiah.

Exactly.

@thumbelina I gave you the facepalm because of the above. I'm just not going to waste more energy on you if you are that blinded. It's been said over and over and yet you find it ok to ignore it.
Maybe you should read "a history of God" by Karen Armstrong. She was a true Christian™, a nun, who committed her life to God.

[bornagainathiest]

Thumbelina wrote...
It was more than personal experiences though it did include those. I liked the morality that I just was not seeing in the secular society I grew up in. There are morals that can be universal but just being a moral person can't get a person saved. I believe the bible tells the future and only a God can tell the future accurately. It is because of love that God has to send people to hell/the grave.

God won't burn people infinitely, that is a myth instigated by the devils.

Sorry Thumbelina, but that's not correct, not Biblical and not Christian.

This is... http://www.godsplanforall.com/

God won't burn people infinitely... only until they repent.
Sinners that are cast into the Lake of Fire are NOT burned to ashes and annihilated.
The Lake of Fire is a place of temporary correction and punishment until they repent.
Then they are released from the flames and can enter God's presence, His justice fully satisfied.


You are perpetrating a myth instigated by the devils. Therefore, you should practice what you preach...

Thumb said: If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken.

You should acknowledge that you are mistaken, repent and learn to divide God's word correctly.

Please do so.

BAA.

[NEWsong]

Thumbelina, on 22 February 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I see you guys left Christianity because you misunderstood God and the gospel and some were hurt too.

mymistake, on 22 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

That is not true. Can you stick to what is true? So many of your objections are outright false. We did not leave because we misunderstood. We didn't do it for a lack of study either, in case JayL is ready to jump in. The hurt was caused by Christians like you doing what you do best - acting like a fundamentalist. However I did not leave Christianity because I was hurt. I left because I got sick of watching other get hurt.

Like MM said; I will RESTATE and EMPHASIZE ALSO...I did NOT leave God because I MISUNDERSTOOD; I began to UNDERSTAND THAT I was DELUSIONAL and that "my faith was IN VAIN"...because it WAS in vain! I realize now that I have a personality that can imagine 'the most real HS' experiences and I DID. I deceived myself THEN, but NOT NOW.

You know, we should NOT cast pearl before swine. I don't have anything to say to Thumb...she knows it all.

[bornagainathiest]

Thumbelina, on 22 February 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Ouroboros, on 22 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Thumbelina, on 22 February 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I am a sinner too and can relate to you and testify about God.

I don't feel like a sinner, so that doesn't resonate or relate to me.

And to relate, you need to have relating things to relate to, but are you really sure that you do? Do you really relate to how and why we left Christianity? I'm not sure you do, and hence, not really relating.

You may not feel like a sinner but the bible says you are and if you say you aren't the bible says you're deceived.
Look at the title of this thread, Christians believe in hell and don't want you all to go there.
I see you guys left Christianity because you misunderstood God and the gospel and some were hurt too. I can relate to pain but I can't relate to ditching God because I understand His love.

The Bible says...
The Bible says...
The Bible says...

The Bible says = Whatever Thumbelina and only Thumbelina says the Bible says. Otherwise, you're deceived

Everyone clear on that?

BAA.

[Antlerman]

Thumbs has a gift that she doesn't have to interpret what she reads. It's just all there automagically. She can't explain how it gets into her head, so it's magic. There is no possibility how she interprets what she reads might be wrong, because, after all, it's right there on the pages. Don't you see it too?

The ignorance runs deep with this one.....

[bornagainathiest]

Antlerman, on 23 February 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Thumbs has a gift that she doesn't have to interpret what she reads. It's just all there automagically. She can't explain how it gets into her head, so it's magic. There is no possibility how she interprets what she reads might be wrong, because, after all, it's right there on the pages. Don't you see it too?

The ignorance runs deep with this one.....

...and the fear.

How comforting that the 'truth' she so desperately needs is all there for her, in those pages!

So, the nasty , corrupt , sinful and immoral world can't hurt her - if she never ventures outside of the Bible.



Catch is A-Man...

Who is it who overcomes?

The one who runs and hides from life inside a book or the one who gets their hands dirty and deals with it?

'nuff said?

BAA.

[Destinyjesus3000]

why don't christians do what they can to save people from hell if its such a bad place?.....the answer is blinding. If a christian tries to talk to anyone about hell, even int he most sincere way its shut down or they get told to go away before they can say 2 words. How then can a christian try to save or help anyone if no one wants to hear or accept the truth? We have to be respectful to people when they say no, so....if you say stop, then how can a christian proceed further to help people from going to hell if they are acting in love and respecting the boundary of not trying to force the truth upon them?

[Astreja]

Destinyjesus3000, on 27 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

why don't christians do what they can to save people from hell if its such a bad place?.....the answer is blinding. If a christian tries to talk to anyone about hell, even int he most sincere way its shut down or they get told to go away before they can say 2 words. How then can a christian try to save or help anyone if no one wants to hear or accept the truth?

Destiny, it isn't "the truth" until you can come up with some empirical physical evidence that your god and heaven and hell actually exist. Until you can do that, all you're doing is scaring people with fairy tales about the Nasty Place.

Quote

if you say stop, then how can a christian proceed further to help people from going to hell if they are acting in love and respecting the boundary of not trying to force the truth upon them? {emphasis Mine}

<Inigo Montoya>You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.</Inigo Montoya>

I'm more concerned that you appear to be worshipping a god that allegedly created "hell" with the intention of keeping it running for eternity, no matter how much the victims plead for mercy.

If hell is for real (but I doubt that very much), IMNSHO we're dealing with a psychopathic deity whose promises of "salvation" might be pure BS.

One thing's for sure, though: If this alleged god desires that none should perish, it should really come here and tell us that itself. Mortal humans telling other mortal humans about things for which they have no first-hand knowledge? Fail.

[bornagainathiest]

Destinyjesus3000, on 27 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

why don't christians do what they can to save people from hell if its such a bad place?.....the answer is blinding. If a christian tries to talk to anyone about hell, even int he most sincere way its shut down or they get told to go away before they can say 2 words. How then can a christian try to save or help anyone if no one wants to hear or accept the truth? We have to be respectful to people when they say no, so....if you say stop, then how can a christian proceed further to help people from going to hell if they are acting in love and respecting the boundary of not trying to force the truth upon them?

You've answered your own question, friend.

If God respects free will, why won't Christian's do the same thing and let people go to hell if they want to go there?

By NOT respecting our free will and persistantly preaching what we don't want to hear, Christians (like Thumbelina) are being less Christ-like, not more.

Hey, if the Bible gives you guys contradicting instructions (be like God and respect free will vs. go out and make disciples) that's not our problem!

In fact, doesn't that tell you something? A self-contradicting Word of God implies a self-contradicting God. Such a God is the invention of human imagination, with all of it's flaws and contradictions.

Now, **** off and leave us alone!

BAA.

[Antlerman]

Destinyjesus3000, on 27 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

If a christian tries to talk to anyone about hell, even int he most sincere way its shut down or they get told to go away before they can say 2 words. How then can a christian try to save or help anyone if no one wants to hear or accept the truth?

Are you so sure it doesn't have more to do with the insincerity of Christians who come to others threatening them with God, when any normal loving person, let alone one supposedly imbued with a higher love, would never come to them as a human with a fist full of condemnation in their hands? The message is not about loving them. The message they hear instead is about a narcissistic person who doesn't love them and is trying to frighten them into joining their cult in order to add numbers for them in a sad excuse to find a sense of security by getting others to think like them.

In short, people are turned off by insincerity. Put the onus on yourself.

[mymistake]

Destinyjesus3000, on 27 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

why don't christians do what they can to save people from hell if its such a bad place?.....the answer is blinding. If a christian tries to talk to anyone about hell, even int he most sincere way its shut down or they get told to go away before they can say 2 words. How then can a christian try to save or help anyone if no one wants to hear or accept the truth? We have to be respectful to people when they say no, so....if you say stop, then how can a christian proceed further to help people from going to hell if they are acting in love and respecting the boundary of not trying to force the truth upon them?

Why don't you save everyone from hell by using your special relationship with God to let God know that hell is not just and pure evil? If God did away with hell then you would have saved all humanity. Won't God listen?

[dyanaprajna0]

Xtians, always blabbing on and on about eternal damnation for unbelievers. Xtians can't face the facts of reality, and how can they, when they can't even face the facts of their own book? It's not surprising, since most of them cherry-pick it, and only know what their preachers shove into their minds. Want the truth? How about the fact that the bible never once mentions a place of eternal torment for unbelievers? That's right, the bible teaches universalism. In the Greek, anyway. English translation have done a poor job of putting this view forward, of course, because they used the bible for fear and control. Even many of the early church fathers believed in universalism. Now, don't get me wrong, i don't believe one word of the bible, and I certainly don't believe in sky fairies. But, the evidence is clear, to those who will actually study the bible instead of the verbal diarrhea spouted by xtians who are just parroting what their preachers tell them, doing no independent study of their own. Now, any xtians here who wants details on universalism in the bible and early church fathers, just ask. I'd be more than willing to share.