19 replies to this topic

[Margee]

Today I read one of the members story, who wasn't even brought up in fundamentalism, but happened to watch one 'you tube' on hell and got scared to death. It ended up being a problem for him. I read so many of these stories on EX-c. I've posted many myself about feeling afraid at different times.

I know that for some, the fear is totally gone and I am so envious of that. But for a lot of us, the fear of the whole christian doctrine still will arise once in awhile and bite us in the ass when we least expect it and we're 'triggered' again with fear for awhile. Where do you think this comes from? All the years of brainwashing? Do we actually still worry if christianity could be right? Logically, I know all the reasons I have completetly left christianity.(and I have!) And logically, I know a little about how the brain works. So if we know this, why do we continue to get 'triggered' every now and again?? How is it that some on EX-c do not ever go through this anymore? What did they do different? Does the fear eventually leave with time, once and for all, never to haunt you again?

Let's help each other figure this out.

Could not the christian use this against us? They would probably say: 'That's because you still are unsure of if there is a god or not''.

[florduh]

Brainwashing, conditioned response, call it what you want. Those who logged the most time in the religion seem take the longest to rid themselves of it.

The teachings are fear based, reinforced at weekly (or more frequent) sermons, and by one's religious friends. When one is told what to think for so long, it's bound to have lasting effects. Emotions are much harder to get a handle on than coherent thoughts are.

[noob]

There were a few times right after I deconverted when I found myself playing the "what if" game. But I cannot remember feeling even remotely concerned about hell for at least a couple of years. It just seems so far fetched that I cannot give it any credence at all.

[Positivist]

I agree with florduh. The conditioning runs very deep. We spent all those years--some of us, our very formative years of childhood--trying to bend our brains to think a certain way and believe certain things. In many ways, I think those thought patterns are as good as hard-wired in. That's why I often recommend to people here to get some cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). CBT helps you change how you think.

It's hard, that's for sure. Today was a rough day for me, as I just finished documenting my deconversion. If I go see a psychologist I will bring it. I want to watch them read it, just so I can see the facial expression (like this: and ) as they see what I actually thought. Objectively, when I consider the beliefs I am walking away from, they appear to derive from sheer lunacy (rapture, hellfire, hearing from God, praying obsessively, strange beliefs about life and God, etc.).

Insane!

So....rough day for me too Margee! (I'm a Canadian too, BTW!)

[florduh]

Quote

(I'm a Canadian too, BTW!)

Sheesh. Damn Canadians.

[Margee]

florduh, on 07 February 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Quote

(I'm a Canadian too, BTW!)

Sheesh. Damn Canadians.

Bad Boy!!

I'm gonna get you!!!

[Positivist]

florduh, on 07 February 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Quote

(I'm a Canadian too, BTW!)

Sheesh. Damn Canadians.

The "true North strong and free", as we say!
(AKA "Eek! Please don't annex us!" lol)

[jackbauer]

Quote

Do we actually still worry if christianity could be right?

*raises hand*

I've always had that thought in the back of my mind. The past several years, I haven't bothered discussing much religion and adapted the view that I shouldn't fear what I can't see or have any way to test. If god is love, he would not sentense me to such a horrific fate just because I didn't commit my life to him like Christians think I should. The only problem is the Calvinist god who is not a god of love and from what I read, seems more in line with scripture.

I probably should read the Bible to at least see if they're taking this shit out of context, but I haven't for 2 reasons,

1. I'm afraid that if I do, it will just trigger the same fears and anxieties.
2. It's extremely BORING. Seriously, I couldn't get through the first chapter of genesis without giving it up and calling it quits.

As far as what triggered the fear, it was the same damn urban legend that terrified me 5 years ago. Even though it was proven false, and even though I only read some scary sermon using it and a few others horror stories as a reference, it triggered that primal fear I always had, leading to 4-6 months of insanity. Then when I read up on it again AND read comments believing it to be true, that sense of terror returned. While I'm not as nuts as I was before, I can't shake that feeling that living my life is a gamble.

Fortunately, I know I hate that God if he exists, but that doesn't stop my mind from racing.

[Llwellyn]

It's the old reptilian part of our brain which responds to threats and uncertainties with fear. If we believed that the shadows hid good things, and that love was found in the deep holes, we wouldn't be so afraid. But our genetic ancestors cowered with fear at night, and were startled by noises. And so do we when we contemplate the darkness after our lives are over. Rather than fearing the worst, why not dare to hope for the best?

[jackbauer]

I should also add that Christians are very good at reinforcing your fears and insecurities with their mind games. I see it so many times with fundtards commenting on deconversion stories. Then again, they look for any little thing they can use to reinforce their beliefs.

I might start a rant on that tommorow.

[blackpudd1n]

My psychologist taught me that the parts of the brain that we exercise are the parts that grow in strength, and this has been proven to be true through the use of MRI's.

The xtian brainwashing, and all of xtianity, really, is focused on emotions and discouraging rational and critical thought. So I spend a lot of free time watching videos and documentaries by atheists, especially those critical of religion, and I pretty much avoid anything to do with religion at the moment, because I am deprogramming myself.

I used to despair about my ability to be deprogrammed, until I came to understand a bit about how the brain functions. I'm finding that the best way to get over those old fears is to avoid xtianity and xtians as much as possible, watch videos critiquing religion, and whenever I have an encounter with xtianity I temper it afterwards with atheist videos to kick-start my critical thinking again and not get caught up in the emotions.

I'm not saying that we should endeavour to be emotionless; just that we should recognise our emotions for what they are and how xtianity and xtians manipulate them. As former xtians, we are particularly vulnerable to this form of abuse by xtians, so we need to guard ourselves more against it.

[Margee]

blackpudd1n, on 08 February 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

My psychologist taught me that the parts of the brain that we exercise are the parts that grow in strength,

The xtian brainwashing, and all of xtianity, really, is focused on emotions and discouraging rational and critical thought. So I spend a lot of free time watching videos and documentaries by atheists, especially those critical of religion, and I pretty much avoid anything to do with religion at the moment, because I am deprogramming myself.

how the brain functions. I'm finding that the best way to get over those old fears is to avoid xtianity and xtians as much as possible, watch videos critiquing religion, and whenever I have an encounter with xtianity I temper it afterwards with atheist videos to kick-start my critical thinking again and not get caught up in the emotions.

so we need to guard ourselves more against it.

This is exactely what I have been doing in the past year Pudd. That's why I am soooo much better this year. Maybe if I continue (which I will!) next year I can be like some of the others on the board who seem to be totally comfortable in their own skin.

[Margee]

Positivist, on 07 February 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Objectively, when I consider the beliefs I am walking away from, they appear to derive from sheer lunacy (rapture, hellfire, hearing from God, praying obsessively, strange beliefs about life and God, etc.).

Insane!

(I'm a Canadian too, BTW!)

Good luck to you Positivist - my fellow Canadian friend! The whole bible is lunacy..All I have to do most of the time is start at Genesis again and my fears start to disapate.

[Margee]

Llwellyn, on 07 February 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

It's the old reptilian part of our brain which responds to threats and uncertainties with fear. If we believed that the shadows hid good things, and that love was found in the deep holes, we wouldn't be so afraid. But our genetic ancestors cowered with fear at night, and were startled by noises. And so do we when we contemplate the darkness after our lives are over. Rather than fearing the worst, why not dare to hope for the best?

this is good Llwellyn - the ole' reptilian part of our brain which still can arise and activate for the purpose of survival. Just lately, I have been thinking about my own mortality and what comes after death. I guess I have been going through the ole' 'death anxiety' thing. I got a little frightened. I do force myself to get back to 'living' quickly because if I sat around and thought about it - I would go crazy. Some parts of life, I just hate, but really, I don't want to exit either!! I try to very hard to accept that death is part of life, but it's not like accepting that it's going to rain today!!

[Margee]

jackbauer, on 07 February 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

* Then when I read up on it again AND read comments believing it to be true, that sense of terror returned. While I'm not as nuts as I was before, I can't shake that feeling that living my life is a gamble.

Fortunately, I know I hate that God if he exists, but that doesn't stop my mind from racing.

This is what I go through from time to time jack. I stood in a huge circle of people last night as they joined hands and said the lord's prayer. For 2 minutes - I wished I still believed the way they do. I ask myself how can sooooo many people on the earth be wrong about god and I get a little scared. It does seem like a 'gamble' to me still. I can't wait till it doesn't!

[Zephie]

I hear you. Blackpudd1n is right on with what she's doing. I spent a lot of time research and learning as much as I can about religion but from an atheist persepctive, mostly becuase I've heard the whole xtian side. I don't even like opening my bible anymore because i know what i'll find. yeah, i worry about hell sometimes but i never really took it seriously even when i was an xtian.

[florduh]

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I wished I still believed the way they do.

Eventually you'll be wishing that they had enough sense to escape the bondage of superstition. Ignorance is not bliss, it's just ignorance.

[par4dcourse]

When I was attempting to quit smoking once, my mother, who hasn't smoked in 50 years, told me that sometimes one will still smell so good she wants one now.
Everyone gets indoctrinated at their own pace, and gets out accordingly. With time, the doubts will be fewer and less emotional, and soon will go (almost) completely away. It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and de-programming yourself takes time.

[midniterider]

Margee, on 07 February 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Today I read one of the members story, who wasn't even brought up in fundamentalism, but happened to watch one 'you tube' on hell and got scared to death. It ended up being a problem for him. I read so many of these stories on EX-c. I've posted many myself about feeling afraid at different times.

I know that for some, the fear is totally gone and I am so envious of that. But for a lot of us, the fear of the whole christian doctrine still will arise once in awhile and bite us in the ass when we least expect it and we're 'triggered' again with fear for awhile. Where do you think this comes from? All the years of brainwashing? Do we actually still worry if christianity could be right? Logically, I know all the reasons I have completetly left christianity.(and I have!) And logically, I know a little about how the brain works. So if we know this, why do we continue to get 'triggered' every now and again?? How is it that some on EX-c do not ever go through this anymore? What did they do different? Does the fear eventually leave with time, once and for all, never to haunt you again?

Let's help each other figure this out.

Could not the christian use this against us? They would probably say: 'That's because you still are unsure of if there is a god or not''.

You might be able to counter that xian argument by saying "Well before I allowed myself the irreversible brain damaging notion that there is a hell I might end up in, I knew beyond any doubt that every Christian was full of caca. But then I allowed myself (emotionally) to be infected with a mind virus called Christianity. Christianity, like herpes and some kinds of hepatitis has a flare up now and then. It isn't because 'god' is tugging at me, it is just a mind disease that will never be totally cured but can be controlled with mental antibiotics, like a Richard Dawkins book or a 5 minute atheism video on youtube. :-)

Others on here have mentioned some good treatments as well. Considering yourself more powerful than Jesus or god can be helpful. Some arrogance and anger helps to destroy fear. :-)

Christianity = fear.

Edited by midniterider, 08 February 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[TotalWreck]

Margee, on 08 February 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

This is what I go through from time to time jack. I stood in a huge circle of people last night as they joined hands and said the lord's prayer. For 2 minutes - I wished I still believed the way they do. I ask myself how can sooooo many people on the earth be wrong about god and I get a little scared. It does seem like a 'gamble' to me still. I can't wait till it doesn't!

You know, for some reason ever since I deconverted 3 months ago, I haven't once worried about what if there's a heaven or hell. The way I look at it is that I know I'm a good person and have always tried living "right" and will continue to do so, and if there is a god and he wants to send me to hell simply because I could no longer believe in something without proof, then that doesn't sound like a very rational god that I'd want to be with for eternity anyway.

The only "triggered" fear that I sometimes get is when I feel alone in the world and everything feels hopeless and I want to pray to a god for help out of desperation for the wizard in the sky to magically fix everything. But I keep reminding myself of the three years of failed prayers that I had to remind me that it's a crock of shit.