58 replies to this topic

[Gneekly]

Wouldn't agnostic pantheism be akin to not knowing if there is a god or not being able to know but just revering nature in the process?

That is certainly suggested to me Zephie. And as you put like this, I am thinking that 'agnostic pantheism' is an idea with some measure of nobility.

I guess my thinking is just trying to understand where this person was coming from. I'm still in the process of honing my critical thinking skills. I could see how someone would not be able to know there was a god but revere nature just the same. Perhaps we as humans get hung up on labels? I know I do at times.

[Legion]

Wouldn't agnostic pantheism be akin to not knowing if there is a god or not being able to know but just revering nature in the process?

That is certainly suggested to me Zephie. And as you put like this, I am thinking that 'agnostic pantheism' is an idea with some measure of nobility.

I guess my thinking is just trying to understand where this person was coming from. I'm still in the process of honing my critical thinking skills. I could see how someone would not be able to know there was a god but revere nature just the same. Perhaps we as humans get hung up on labels? I know I do at times.

Yeah, the term itself is difficult I think. But this need not prevent us from examining what is suggested by the term. I tried this too...

Agnostic pantheism - God is either unknowable or unknown, but if God does exist then God pervades nature.

[Gneekly]

Wouldn't agnostic pantheism be akin to not knowing if there is a god or not being able to know but just revering nature in the process?

That is certainly suggested to me Zephie. And as you put like this, I am thinking that 'agnostic pantheism' is an idea with some measure of nobility.

I guess my thinking is just trying to understand where this person was coming from. I'm still in the process of honing my critical thinking skills. I could see how someone would not be able to know there was a god but revere nature just the same. Perhaps we as humans get hung up on labels? I know I do at times.

Yeah, the term itself is difficult I think. But this need not prevent us from examining what is suggested by the term. I tried this too...

Agnostic pantheism - God is either unknowable or unknown, but if God does exist then God pervades nature.

That seems like a good explanation of it.

[Legion]

Doesn't the term agnostic pantheism seem a little self refuting and maybe a bit pretentious? If your a agnostic pantheist, to me, your just a agnostic that loves nature. Why not just then say your a agnostic?

Because.... you want to say just a little bit more?

[Gneekly]

Doesn't the term agnostic pantheism seem a little self refuting and maybe a bit pretentious? If your a agnostic pantheist, to me, your just a agnostic that loves nature. Why not just then say your a agnostic?

I thought pantheism was that nature is god or that god is evident in nature?

[lunaticheathen]

I thought pantheism was that nature is god or that god is evident in nature?

Pan = All
Theism = belief or having to do with god

All is God.

[Legion]

Doesn't the term agnostic pantheism seem a little self refuting and maybe a bit pretentious? If your a agnostic pantheist, to me, your just a agnostic that loves nature. Why not just then say your a agnostic?

I thought pantheism was that nature is god or that god is evident in nature?

I'm not sure, but I think even pantheism has its divisions. If so, then it wouldn't be a surpise to me. We'll argue over anything.

[Gneekly]

Doesn't the term agnostic pantheism seem a little self refuting and maybe a bit pretentious? If your a agnostic pantheist, to me, your just a agnostic that loves nature. Why not just then say your a agnostic?

I thought pantheism was that nature is god or that god is evident in nature?

I'm not sure, but I think even pantheism has its divisions. If so, then it wouldn't be a surpise to me. We'll argue over anything.

That's true for sure.

[Gneekly]

I thought pantheism was that nature is god or that god is evident in nature?

Pan = All
Theism = belief or having to do with god

All is God.

oh okay that makes sense

[Antlerman]

Can we create such languages as do communicate these paradoxes? Only if not understood explicitly.

A-man, I am going to return to this because it really bothers me. Yes, we can create languages which communicate these paradoxes and we have done so. Higher order logic, non-well-founded sets, and category theory come to mind for instance. You are wrong here. Flat out mistaken.

You set yourself up to be flat our mistaken by making such absolute statements. Here's my point you miss. Language creates dualities. When you get into nonduality the minute you say even one word about it, it is no longer it. God is about one of the closest words to nonduality you can say, but it itself is not It. God beyond God. God's God. You see? You can't say it. You can't say it, because you can't think it. You experience it. It is a transrational, transmental realization. No words can define what is undefinable.

[Legion]

I'm not talking about God the indescribable though.

I'm talking about the ability to explicitly understand the paradoxes which inher in nature and in ourselves. And the importance of having languages which support paradox and yet disclude self-negating contradiction.

This is important to me because I think transmitting this to future generations is among the better things we could do to ensure their well-being.

[Rev R]

mu

[Ouroboros]

mu

"µ" said the cow. Maybe it was holy?

[Legion]

mu

Alright. Okay. I have a question for the mods here.


I am requesting permission to open fire with rifles, grenades, cannons, mortars, and howitzers! I want airsupport with clusterbombs and napalm! I want space based lazers.on direct line. I am requesting permission to open fire and drop ordinance on the vicinity of this man who say "mu".

Mods, sirs! Permission granted?

Edited by Legion, 13 February 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Ouroboros]

Mods, sirs! Permission granted?

I'm not sure why? Let's start a new topic in Lion's Den. I'll make one right now. And you can blast your lasers there.

[Legion]

I'm not sure why?

Hans! He sits over there, seeing what he sees, and says "_mu". It's digusting. He's right and he knows it like we're a bunch of silly, silly monkeys.

_{? Can you see the little arrogant ------> mu}


Hans I am once more requesting permission to open fire with rifles, grenades, cannons, mortars, and howitzers! I want airsupport with clusterbombs and napalm! I want space based lazers.on direct line. I am requesting permission to open fire and drop ordinance on the vicinity of this man who says "mu".

Hans! Permission granted!? Sir!

Edited by Legion, 13 February 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[Xerces]

What's the point? It's trying to make sense of everything using the same methods people have been using for centuries, by using spiritual type beliefs. And so far only the scientific method has worked. I'm not arguing against those right here and now, but I don't understand why they're still being used when they don't work. Many have lived and died thinking their beliefs were the truth.

[Antlerman]

What's the point? It's trying to make sense of everything using the same methods people have been using for centuries, by using spiritual type beliefs. And so far only the scientific method has worked. I'm not arguing against those right here and now, but I don't understand why they're still being used when they don't work. Many have lived and died thinking their beliefs were the truth.

But work in what way? What questions are being asked and looked into that a non-rational, non-scientific method addresses better? Clearly it can't be 'how things works', as empirical science is clearly the tool for that. What could it be that rational people are looking into then that science falls short for them?