My fellow heathens, I have here a game for us to play, if you wish, with serious implications. I hope it will be both fun and enlightening for us all. Our overall purpose here will be to remove the baby from the bath water of Christianity... if it exists.
I invite you here to 1 ) find a passage from the Bible which has some relevance, or utility, or wisdom, or some other quality which recommends it. 2 ) Then please explain why you think this passage has this good quality. 3 ) Then end the post with "too bad Christianity is bullshit." I certainly hope these three point posts will be debated, and I also hope we have a fair number of them interspersed with debate about them.
I will here give an example, which will close out this opening post. And then we will see where it goes.
-----------------------------------
"Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness." Luke 11 : 34
I think this passage is accurate in the following sense. I believe that the way we interpret our experiences dictates in large part how we respond to them. For instance, suppose I come upon a person during the course of the day. I think we can all mostly agree that people have some mixture of good and bad in their characters. And if I look for the goodness in them then my behavior towards them will be in accordance with the goodness I see. But if I look for the bad in them, then my behavior will also be in accordance with the badness I see. In this way, I think Luke 11:34 has some measure of accuracy.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
88 replies to this topic
#1
Legion
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#2
lunaticheathen
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:40 PM
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6
This is a good verse, that I sometimes use, because it conveys that there are some people out there that it is useless to try and give wisdom to. Some people simply cannot appreciate the "pearls" we would love to offer them, would even attack you for trying. It reminds me to be discerning in who I speak about spiritual matters with. For some, it just will not help, and it would hurt me, it's best to leave them be, and save my pearls for those it would help.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
This is a good verse, that I sometimes use, because it conveys that there are some people out there that it is useless to try and give wisdom to. Some people simply cannot appreciate the "pearls" we would love to offer them, would even attack you for trying. It reminds me to be discerning in who I speak about spiritual matters with. For some, it just will not help, and it would hurt me, it's best to leave them be, and save my pearls for those it would help.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
"We're all the same as clouds and butterflies. We just pretend to be something different."
Tom Robbins, Another Roadside Attraction
My blog
Tom Robbins, Another Roadside Attraction
My blog
#3
oddbird1963
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:42 PM
Well, the problem with a passage like that is that it is a metaphor. First, second and third century readers (and hearers) interpreted such a saying differently than we do now.
It can mean anything to anyone (or any group) at any given time.
It is so open to interpretation that it becomes what Dan Dennet (Or wasit Victor Stenger?) calls a deepity. It appeals to something in us and we seek to interpret it in a way that is meaningful to us. But we don't really interpret it - we create the meaning and the most persuasive group gets to assign it a meaning for their contemporary generation.
It's not that Christianity is bullshit, it's that Christianity is so vague and shifting and changing and contradictory that anything can mean just about anything to anyone for any reason. So much so that Christianity (as well as any other religion) is about power.
But, in the spirit of cooperation I'll say it: Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
It can mean anything to anyone (or any group) at any given time.
It is so open to interpretation that it becomes what Dan Dennet (Or wasit Victor Stenger?) calls a deepity. It appeals to something in us and we seek to interpret it in a way that is meaningful to us. But we don't really interpret it - we create the meaning and the most persuasive group gets to assign it a meaning for their contemporary generation.
It's not that Christianity is bullshit, it's that Christianity is so vague and shifting and changing and contradictory that anything can mean just about anything to anyone for any reason. So much so that Christianity (as well as any other religion) is about power.
But, in the spirit of cooperation I'll say it: Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
oddbird1963
QUOTE Our lives improve only when we take chances - and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves .
QUOTE Our lives improve only when we take chances - and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves .
-- Walter Anderson
#4
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:55 PM
Ecclesiastes 1:18, "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief."
Not that I am particularly wise or knowledgeable. But the little wisdom and knowledge I have gained has been a double edged sword. On one end, I am fascinated with the universe, science, history, religion, literature, human behavior...but with more knowledge comes a certain amount of grief. A good example is as a child, and like all children, I grew up thinking how rosy our nation's history is (George Washington and the cherry tree, Lincoln and the pennies etc...). Then in 7th grade I learned about the Trail of Tears. I learned something, I gained knowledge, but it certainly didn't make me happy to know it.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
Not that I am particularly wise or knowledgeable. But the little wisdom and knowledge I have gained has been a double edged sword. On one end, I am fascinated with the universe, science, history, religion, literature, human behavior...but with more knowledge comes a certain amount of grief. A good example is as a child, and like all children, I grew up thinking how rosy our nation's history is (George Washington and the cherry tree, Lincoln and the pennies etc...). Then in 7th grade I learned about the Trail of Tears. I learned something, I gained knowledge, but it certainly didn't make me happy to know it.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
Ignorance is bliss, Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions - Stephen Colbert
#5
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:07 PM
I can see that I alone am not going to be able to field these excellent posts. I just wanted drop in here and offer my thanks.
Luna, Oddbird, BrotherJosh, thank you. You've got me thinking. And I like that.
Luna, Oddbird, BrotherJosh, thank you. You've got me thinking. And I like that.
Living under the rise of tyranny.
#6
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:16 PM
22 Because of the LORD’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
Lamentations 3:22-23
I loved this whole chapter. I highly value compassion. I very much wanted to believe God has "great love" and "his compassions never fail". If he were always forgiving - verse 23 I assumed meant a new clean slate everyday - .. but....
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
Lamentations 3:22-23
I loved this whole chapter. I highly value compassion. I very much wanted to believe God has "great love" and "his compassions never fail". If he were always forgiving - verse 23 I assumed meant a new clean slate everyday - .. but....
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
"I will overcome, shine and let everyone see the radiant beauty of my true self set free!" - TexasOtaku
"Imagine if your beliefs will never get you where you want to go." - Tony Robbins
#7
Margee
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:17 PM
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, what- ever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things. (Philippians 4:8)
I think this is a very good verse, in the fact that it promotes morality. Humans had already figured out that we should stay together, support one another, etc..... We are evolutionarily programmed to be cooperative. I know he says 'think' on these things, but in order to 'think' true, nobel, right, pure, admirable - we have to 'be' these things.
In short - to 'think' this way - is to live this way. Moral 'thinking' pervades our practical lives everyday - This sort of behaviour is necessary to the survival and welfare of the human spieces. We figured out this good wisdom many thousands of years ago!!,
............ too bad christianity is bullshit!
I think this is a very good verse, in the fact that it promotes morality. Humans had already figured out that we should stay together, support one another, etc..... We are evolutionarily programmed to be cooperative. I know he says 'think' on these things, but in order to 'think' true, nobel, right, pure, admirable - we have to 'be' these things.
In short - to 'think' this way - is to live this way. Moral 'thinking' pervades our practical lives everyday - This sort of behaviour is necessary to the survival and welfare of the human spieces. We figured out this good wisdom many thousands of years ago!!,
............ too bad christianity is bullshit!
93% of the mass in our body is stardust. Just think.....long ago someone may have wished upon a star that you are made of.
God may not work.....but you could try wishing upon a star!
God may not work.....but you could try wishing upon a star!
#8
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:30 PM
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." ~ John 13:34
It's been said, sung, written, and hugged about in pretty much every culture around the world for countless centuries. It's one of the basest and truest realities that we have in the world that makes our lives wonderful, fulfilling, and worthwhile. Love. All you need is love.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
It's been said, sung, written, and hugged about in pretty much every culture around the world for countless centuries. It's one of the basest and truest realities that we have in the world that makes our lives wonderful, fulfilling, and worthwhile. Love. All you need is love.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
Edited by Kurari, 10 February 2012 - 06:31 PM.
“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.” ~ Christopher Hitchens
"It is such a beautiful thought that we are the heirs of 4 billion years of evolution and we are cousins of all living things. When you put that against the measly, piddling ideas that are in Genesis, there is just no comparison." ~ Richard Dawkins
#9
Eugene39
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:47 PM
Isaiah 1: 13-18 - Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations - I cannot bear your evil assemblies. Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! See justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.
James 1:27 - Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Christianity has become simply a system of beliefs that one must adhere to,and is built upon thinking of all the me-centered things that God did for me. One thing I admire about Judaism is one doesn't have to read much of their literature before you will find the phrase tikkun olam which means repair of the world. None of us can repair the world, but we can help to repair the corner of the world in which we find ourselves. The two quoted Scriptures mean to me that our actions are much more important than having our religious ceremonies down pat, all while ignoring the hurting people around us.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
#10
Margee
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:41 PM
Genesis: To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
And to the man god said,
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
until you return to the ground.............
Stress has been here since the beginning of time!! The fight or flight response prepares us to either 'fight' or 'flee' from a perceived threatening or harmful situation. This was a very critical response during cave man days. When the proverbial sabre tooth tiger attacks, you get out your club and kill it, or you run like mad! Yeah - The good ole' cave man days...men throwing arrows at buffalos, men hunting large animals and bringing home the beef and working the ground!! . A HUGE struggle!!
Difficult childbirth has always been. It is the the result of the human brain and head having evolved so quickly. (Big brain... large head ....difficult birth) In another 10,000 years or so womens' hips will be large enough to handle the job with ease as we evolve!
Too bad christianity is bullshit!
“I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
And to the man god said,
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
until you return to the ground.............
Stress has been here since the beginning of time!! The fight or flight response prepares us to either 'fight' or 'flee' from a perceived threatening or harmful situation. This was a very critical response during cave man days. When the proverbial sabre tooth tiger attacks, you get out your club and kill it, or you run like mad! Yeah - The good ole' cave man days...men throwing arrows at buffalos, men hunting large animals and bringing home the beef and working the ground!! . A HUGE struggle!!
Difficult childbirth has always been. It is the the result of the human brain and head having evolved so quickly. (Big brain... large head ....difficult birth) In another 10,000 years or so womens' hips will be large enough to handle the job with ease as we evolve!
Too bad christianity is bullshit!
93% of the mass in our body is stardust. Just think.....long ago someone may have wished upon a star that you are made of.
God may not work.....but you could try wishing upon a star!
God may not work.....but you could try wishing upon a star!
#11
Antlerman
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:17 PM
This is an awesome thread Legion! Too bad Christianity is bullshit. 
Alright, I'll add my two cents.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
This was my first sermon preached, and I realized no other sermon ever needed to be preached as I prepared to speak. All religion can be summed up, and eliminated in this injunction. Love is the fulling of all laws as "love works no ill". Yet religion strives to simulate what can only be performed through a true heart.
Too bad Christianity doesn't know this.
Alright, I'll add my two cents.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
This was my first sermon preached, and I realized no other sermon ever needed to be preached as I prepared to speak. All religion can be summed up, and eliminated in this injunction. Love is the fulling of all laws as "love works no ill". Yet religion strives to simulate what can only be performed through a true heart.
Too bad Christianity doesn't know this.
Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain,
but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.
~Ikkyu - Zen-monk poet, 1394-1481
If a plant cannot live according to its nature it dies; and so a man.
~Thoureau
#12
Foxy Methoxy
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:23 PM
Judges 3:21-25
[21] And Aod put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly, [22] With such force that the haft went in after the blade into the wound, and was closed up with the abundance of fat. So that he did not draw out the dagger, but left it in his body as he had struck it in. And forthwith by the secret parts of nature the excrements of the belly came out. [23] But Aod carefully shutting the doors of the parlour and locking them, [24] Went out by a postern door. And the king's servants going in, saw the doors of the parlour shut, and they said: Perhaps he is easing nature in his summer parlour. [25] And waiting a long time till they were ashamed, and seeing that no man opened the door, they took a key: and opening, they found their lord lying dead on the ground.
I like this verse because like Aod, I'm a lefty.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
[21] And Aod put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly, [22] With such force that the haft went in after the blade into the wound, and was closed up with the abundance of fat. So that he did not draw out the dagger, but left it in his body as he had struck it in. And forthwith by the secret parts of nature the excrements of the belly came out. [23] But Aod carefully shutting the doors of the parlour and locking them, [24] Went out by a postern door. And the king's servants going in, saw the doors of the parlour shut, and they said: Perhaps he is easing nature in his summer parlour. [25] And waiting a long time till they were ashamed, and seeing that no man opened the door, they took a key: and opening, they found their lord lying dead on the ground.
I like this verse because like Aod, I'm a lefty.
Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
#13
pratt
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:25 PM
my favorite
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
I found it comforting when times were hard, and that was many moons ago,,,,,
too bad chrisitanity is bullshit
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
I found it comforting when times were hard, and that was many moons ago,,,,,
too bad chrisitanity is bullshit
#14
Suzy
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:48 AM
"Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers."
(Luke 6:44)
This verse actually helped me to deconvert, when I was thinking about how come my whole Christian journey only gave me shit: guilt, fears, invasive thoughts, a judgmental attitude etc. So I decided Christianity actually is not a good tree.
Though many things in the Bible are BS and Christianity as a whole is, but there are also some wise things. This sentence is one of those, IMO. Too bad Christianity is BS and Jesus likely never said those words.
(Luke 6:44)
This verse actually helped me to deconvert, when I was thinking about how come my whole Christian journey only gave me shit: guilt, fears, invasive thoughts, a judgmental attitude etc. So I decided Christianity actually is not a good tree.
Though many things in the Bible are BS and Christianity as a whole is, but there are also some wise things. This sentence is one of those, IMO. Too bad Christianity is BS and Jesus likely never said those words.
"The major ingredient of any recipe for fear is the unknown"
#15
Suzy
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:55 AM
This is an awesome thread Legion! Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
Alright, I'll add my two cents.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
This was my first sermon preached, and I realized no other sermon ever needed to be preached as I prepared to speak. All religion can be summed up, and eliminated in this injunction. Love is the fulling of all laws as "love works no ill". Yet religion strives to simulate what can only be performed through a true heart.
Too bad Christianity doesn't know this.
My problem with this verse is that while it's nice that it says love is the most important thing, but it says above anybody else you should love God. So you should love an imaginary friend more than your family and friends. And Jesus confirms it when he says those who leave their families for him will get greater rewards in heaven. So this Christian type of love is pretty fucked up, in my opinion. Oh well, that's because Christianity is bullshit.
"The major ingredient of any recipe for fear is the unknown"
#16
mwc
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:39 AM
"The universe was formed out of a big bang."
I think this is a pretty good theory as to how the universe was formed.
Too bad science is bullshit. So I don't have to know or care about what I just said above...good, bad or indifferent. It's bullshit after all. The real, non-bullshit, answer is the universe fell out of a primordial monkey butt. I have to remind myself that the monkey butt answer is the correct answer by stating science is a lie. I am a sad person.
Am I playing this game correctly? We take something. Then say something "good" about it knowing full well I'm just going to call it all bullshit anyway?
mwc
I think this is a pretty good theory as to how the universe was formed.
Too bad science is bullshit. So I don't have to know or care about what I just said above...good, bad or indifferent. It's bullshit after all. The real, non-bullshit, answer is the universe fell out of a primordial monkey butt. I have to remind myself that the monkey butt answer is the correct answer by stating science is a lie. I am a sad person.
Am I playing this game correctly? We take something. Then say something "good" about it knowing full well I'm just going to call it all bullshit anyway?
mwc
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think they'll hate you. - Don Marquis
PLEASE NOTE: Just because I speak as if YHWH/jesus exist does not mean they do. It's simply for the sake of the argument.
PLEASE NOTE: Just because I speak as if YHWH/jesus exist does not mean they do. It's simply for the sake of the argument.
#17
JadedAtheist
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:46 AM
"The universe was formed out of a big bang."
I think this is a pretty good theory as to how the universe was formed.
Too bad science is bullshit. So I don't have to know or care about what I just said above...good, bad or indifferent. It's bullshit after all. The real, non-bullshit, answer is the universe fell out of a primordial monkey butt. I have to remind myself that the monkey butt answer is the correct answer by stating science is a lie. I am a sad person.
Am I playing this game correctly? We take something. Then say something "good" about it knowing full well I'm just going to call it all bullshit anyway?
mwc
It must've taken you years to refine the art that is killing the fun in a thread.
For a man to conquer himself is the first and noblest of all victories. - Plato
#18
Antlerman
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Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:32 AM
It depends how you envision God. If God is understood as the source of Love and you connect to that first above all else, than it works. When your mind and heart are renewed, than your soul will flow naturally to the world through that Love you found within. But is this how Christians relate to God? I don't see that as it should be because......
This is an awesome thread Legion! Too bad Christianity is bullshit.
Alright, I'll add my two cents.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
This was my first sermon preached, and I realized no other sermon ever needed to be preached as I prepared to speak. All religion can be summed up, and eliminated in this injunction. Love is the fulling of all laws as "love works no ill". Yet religion strives to simulate what can only be performed through a true heart.
Too bad Christianity doesn't know this.
My problem with this verse is that while it's nice that it says love is the most important thing, but it says above anybody else you should love God. So you should love an imaginary friend more than your family and friends. And Jesus confirms it when he says those who leave their families for him will get greater rewards in heaven. So this Christian type of love is pretty fucked up, in my opinion. Oh well, that's because Christianity is bullshit.
Christianity is bullshit.
Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain,
but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.
~Ikkyu - Zen-monk poet, 1394-1481
If a plant cannot live according to its nature it dies; and so a man.
~Thoureau
#19
mwc
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- Senior Member
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Sarcastic? Me?
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- Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :meh
Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:14 AM
You forgot to say "Christianity is bullshit" so I don't know if I can accept your compliment.It must've taken you years to refine the art that is killing the fun in a thread.
mwc
Edited by mwc, 11 February 2012 - 09:15 AM.
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think they'll hate you. - Don Marquis
PLEASE NOTE: Just because I speak as if YHWH/jesus exist does not mean they do. It's simply for the sake of the argument.
PLEASE NOTE: Just because I speak as if YHWH/jesus exist does not mean they do. It's simply for the sake of the argument.
#20
Legion
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- Senior Member
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- 11,970 posts
Psycho Somatic
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- Interests:Survival sounds good. I'd really like to have understanding too That'd be cool.
- Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :the smile on Lao Tzu's dog
Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:16 AM
You forgot to say "Christianity is bullshit" so I don't know if I can accept your compliment.
It must've taken you years to refine the art that is killing the fun in a thread.
"So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." - Romans 14 : 19
I think this verse urges us to the essence of symbiosis, which is likely the key to communal living.
It's just too damn bad Christianity is bullshit.
Living under the rise of tyranny.
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