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17 Year-Old Shot And Killed In Gated Community


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#421 Ouroboros

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

Assumption assumption assumption. Neither YOU, ME, NOR ANYONE really knows FOR SURE what really went on.

Exactly. Even the idea that Martin threw the first punch is also an assumption based on the only witness, the suspect and shooter. How can we know he's telling the truth and didn't punch first?

You are wanting to be judge, jury and executioner of someone and a law that has been tried in the media.

I think what we're waiting on is a judge and jury to actually do the trial, instead of the media, but since there's this media circus about race war and Zimmerman's assumed innocence and assumed gun hatred and such, there won't be any justice.

The thing is, this website isn't "media". We're just a bunch of guys and gals talking about our opinions. So what goes on here, isn't the media or judge/jury/executioner, because we have no influence, power, or ability to either one of those. What we can do, is present the facts. The facts are, Zimmerman has pulled similar stunts in the past and was saved by his ex-judge dad. It's not about race. It's about abuse of power. Three times saved by magistrate judge dad: http://rollingout.co...closed-arrests/

Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.

Wow. Really. And you're not while doing the same?
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And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness. And there was much rejoicing.



Book of Hans 3:16


#422 Ouroboros

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

as an aside, I was wondering why a gated community needed a neighbourhood watch guy like Zimmerman in the first place. Isn't that the whole point of gated communities, so you don't need to have vigilantes roaming the streets? Then again, perhaps the only people who populate gated communities are paranoid anyway, so maybe that stands to reason.

Gated communities tend to have guards and their own little security detail. Perhaps their community didn't have an association paying for security.

They didn't. Zimmerman was the one who needed to be the Captain of the neighborhood watch. So Zimmerman made himself into this Caped Crusader.

Neighborhood watch isn't a formal business. It's an agreement between neighbors.

Isn't that the whole point of gated communities, so you don't need to have vigilantes roaming the streets? Then again, perhaps the only people who populate gated communities are paranoid anyway, so maybe that stands to reason.

Criminals aren't scared of a gate. A gate is simple to walk around. Even in the gated communities with guards, you can have crimes.

And if Martain had attacked Zimmerman, punched him, climbed on top of him, knocked his head into the concrete and killed Zimmerman it wouldn't be assault, murder or even a crime. It would be perfectly legal self defense under the Florida SYG law. Clearly Martain's mistake was showing mercy. He needed to kill Zimmerman and didn't.

That's why it's so crazy. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, would we hear anyone defending the idea of SYG for him then?

"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.

I don't think Zimmerman planned it.

What I think is that Zimmerman was overzealous. There had been a bunch of burglaries in the area. He saw a suspicious character. He thought he could be the hero that could solve the crime wave. If he could take the criminals down that had burglarized the area, he would be in the paper as a superhero.
Jabbrwokk QFT:



And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness. And there was much rejoicing.



Book of Hans 3:16

#423 mymistake

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

And if Martain had attacked Zimmerman, punched him, climbed on top of him, knocked his head into the concrete and killed Zimmerman it wouldn't be assault, murder or even a crime. It would be perfectly legal self defense under the Florida SYG law. Clearly Martain's mistake was showing mercy. He needed to kill Zimmerman and didn't.

"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.


Assumption assumption assumption. Neither YOU, ME, NOR ANYONE really knows FOR SURE what really went on. You are wanting to be judge, jury and executioner of someone and a law that has been tried in the media. Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.


Cease and desist from accusing me of wanting to kill people. I am not joking. I am not kidding. Knock that off.
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#424 Burnedout

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:37 AM

Ouroborous,

Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.

Wow. Really. And you're not while doing the same?


That was not directed at you. I was responding to this statement by MM:

The other question is how much of what the police did based on race, how much was based on police incompetence and how much was due to the SYG law. There it's not so clear cut where we can be sure it was from race. The south has had a long history of racist police. However maybe they were just incompetent. There have been other cases that were screwed up by Florida's bad law. So less is known.


That shows some ignorance by someone who has from all appearances has never been to the state and appears to be spouting based on media images which are more than often incorrrect.
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#425 mymistake

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:40 AM


"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.

I don't think Zimmerman planned it.


Nor do I. It was not my intention to imply Zimmerman planed for things to turn deadly. Let me clarify. If Martin had survived and Zimmerman had died then Martin's statement would be "This guy was following me so I punched him. He fell down and tried to pull a gun out of his pocket. I saw the handle of the gun so I jumped on him and told him to not pull it out. He got it out and tried to point it at me so I pushed it away. He kept trying to point the gun at me so I punched him in the head until he stopped."

Perfectly justified to kill Zimmerman with that statement, the known facts and Florida's SYG law.
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#426 Burnedout

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:41 AM


And if Martain had attacked Zimmerman, punched him, climbed on top of him, knocked his head into the concrete and killed Zimmerman it wouldn't be assault, murder or even a crime. It would be perfectly legal self defense under the Florida SYG law. Clearly Martain's mistake was showing mercy. He needed to kill Zimmerman and didn't.

"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.


Assumption assumption assumption. Neither YOU, ME, NOR ANYONE really knows FOR SURE what really went on. You are wanting to be judge, jury and executioner of someone and a law that has been tried in the media. Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.


Cease and desist from accusing me of wanting to kill people. I am not joking. I am not kidding. Knock that off.


I did not accuse you of wanting to kill anyone. The phrase "Judge, Jury and Executioner" is an expression. It was in response to a blanket statement you made about a whole region's police force, if you don't want me to make the statement I did, then stop making blanket statements about a whole region for which you obviously know little about. .
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#427 SkipNChurch

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

Thinking this specific set of incidents woulda/coulda/shoulda been simplified by communication. Zimmerman making demands, Martin "running from" all helped escalate a set of "nothings" by themselves into the fuckup events blended into.

I concur with Hans, our discussions are that, a group of unrelated to incident talk. Our knowledge is greatly limited to what we perceive from "news" and "opinion".

Seeing what Grand Jury lays out will be quite interesting when results are published.

kL
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#428 mymistake

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM



And if Martain had attacked Zimmerman, punched him, climbed on top of him, knocked his head into the concrete and killed Zimmerman it wouldn't be assault, murder or even a crime. It would be perfectly legal self defense under the Florida SYG law. Clearly Martain's mistake was showing mercy. He needed to kill Zimmerman and didn't.

"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.


Assumption assumption assumption. Neither YOU, ME, NOR ANYONE really knows FOR SURE what really went on. You are wanting to be judge, jury and executioner of someone and a law that has been tried in the media. Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.


Cease and desist from accusing me of wanting to kill people. I am not joking. I am not kidding. Knock that off.


I did not accuse you of wanting to kill anyone. The phrase "Judge, Jury and Executioner" is an expression.


One that you will never use while referring to me ever again. Got it? Clear? Understand? Comprende? You will never use executioner in any sentence that refers to me in any way.

Cease and desist.

It was in response to a blanket statement you made about a whole region's police force, if you don't want me to make the statement I did, then stop making blanket statements about a whole region for which you obviously know little about. .


So I have to agree with you about this political issue or else you are going to personally defame me using this electronic medium? Is that what you are telling me?
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#429 Burnedout

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:52 AM




And if Martain had attacked Zimmerman, punched him, climbed on top of him, knocked his head into the concrete and killed Zimmerman it wouldn't be assault, murder or even a crime. It would be perfectly legal self defense under the Florida SYG law. Clearly Martain's mistake was showing mercy. He needed to kill Zimmerman and didn't.

"He was going for his gun" justified everything. And we know in reality Zimmerman was going to kill Martin.


Assumption assumption assumption. Neither YOU, ME, NOR ANYONE really knows FOR SURE what really went on. You are wanting to be judge, jury and executioner of someone and a law that has been tried in the media. Sounds to me like you need to get out of California or what ever state you are from and really see the world instead of looking at it through your little lense of your perceived reality. That makes you worse than a Christian. YOU are playing GOD now.


Cease and desist from accusing me of wanting to kill people. I am not joking. I am not kidding. Knock that off.


I did not accuse you of wanting to kill anyone. The phrase "Judge, Jury and Executioner" is an expression.


One that you will never use while referring to me ever again. Got it? Clear? Understand? Comprende? You will never use executioner in any sentence that refers to me in any way.

Cease and desist.

It was in response to a blanket statement you made about a whole region's police force, if you don't want me to make the statement I did, then stop making blanket statements about a whole region for which you obviously know little about. .


So I have to agree with you about this political issue or else you are going to personally defame me using this electronic medium? Is that what you are telling me?


IF you are going to make blanket statments about a WHOLE group of people based on region or culture, or a WHOLE region, that is as bad as a white person calling a black person the 'N' word. If you want to point out an incident, fine, fair game, if you want to point out a policy or statement, fine, but to broad brush a whole group of people, that is truly ignorant.
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#430 mymistake

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

IF you are going to make blanket statments about a WHOLE group of people . . .


I don't.
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#431 Ouroboros

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

That shows some ignorance by someone who has from all appearances has never been to the state and appears to be spouting based on media images which are more than often incorrrect.

I believe you. The media really blew up the story and made it to something more than it was.
Jabbrwokk QFT:



And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness. And there was much rejoicing.



Book of Hans 3:16

#432 Ro-bear

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:39 AM

Republicans are especially tired of the story, as are white people.

http://www.cnn.com/2...?iref=allsearch
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#433 mymistake

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:43 AM

Republicans are especially tired of the story, as are white people.

http://www.cnn.com/2...?iref=allsearch


I'm not. I want to know exactly why the police didn't investigate properly. Of course I realize we will probably never know the truth on account of people in the position of responsibility being so good at CYA.
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#434 Ramen666

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:21 PM

Zimmerman speaks, raises funds on new website

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1
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#435 Rank Stranger

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

Republicans are especially tired of the story, as are white people.

http://www.cnn.com/2...?iref=allsearch


I'm kinda tired of it. I'm mainly tired of how it's being covered, the narrative that it's being squeezed into, and certain facts that are being actively ignored.

As Hans has already posted, Zimmerman's dad is a retired JUDGE. He was present at the police station, and this is obivously why the police aren't prosecuting. IMO, this is a case about abuse of power. Race may well be an issue- but it's not the main issue here. We're talking about a hispanic guy who shot a black guy... and this somehow gets turned into a story about white/black racism and racial profiling?

But stories about race- particularly when a black person gets hurt- that's what sells. So that's what's in the news. The fundamental problem that's kept the police from prosecuting Zimmerman- the fact that his daddy is a retired judge- it isn't even being discussed.

We're a narrative-driven society. A bunch of religious zealouts being led around by whatever story tugs at the heart-strings.
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#436 mymistake

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:23 PM

Zimmerman speaks, raises funds on new website

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1


Awe, if you don't want your life ruined by the Stand Your Ground law then don't live in Florida.
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#437 Ouroboros

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:09 AM

But stories about race- particularly when a black person gets hurt- that's what sells. So that's what's in the news. The fundamental problem that's kept the police from prosecuting Zimmerman- the fact that his daddy is a retired judge- it isn't even being discussed.

We're a narrative-driven society. A bunch of religious zealouts being led around by whatever story tugs at the heart-strings.

Yeah. I think that's right. The racists in this whole event has been the media, not the culprit. It doesn't mean Zimmerman is without guilt in the story, but the real issues are avoided because if a misdirected zeal by media.
Jabbrwokk QFT:



And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness. And there was much rejoicing.



Book of Hans 3:16

#438 BrotherJosh

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

Zimmerman's legal team has decided to drop him. They lost contact with him, apparently. Also, ABCNews verified (take it with a grain of salt) that the following website is actually set up by George Zimmerman. He's asking for donations to fight the "charges" against him.

On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event which led me to become the subject of intense media coverage. As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life. This website's sole purpose is to ensure my supporters they are receiving my full attention without any intermediaries.


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#439 Ramen666

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

BREAKING NEWS:

George Zimmerman to be Charged in Trayvon Martin Case

http://usnews.msnbc....artin-case?lite

Edited by Ramen666, 11 April 2012 - 02:29 PM.

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#440 stryper

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:40 PM

damn I'll be driving at 6pm edt
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