Helping The Needy: Religious People Versus Secularists

[R. S. Martin]

I also posted this on a Christian forum.

 

My aim is to learn how or whether people of all life philosophies help the needy.

 

For the purposes of this poll:

• "primary same-beliefs group" will refer to the group that people meet with for discussion/practice of their personal life philosophy or religious belief.
  

• "other religious person" will refer to all nonChristian religions such as Buddhist, Jewish, Native American, etc.
  

• In the case of religious people (Christian or other) who do not meet in specially built buildings but instead meet in homes, schools, outdoors, etc., "church" and "house of worship" will refer to their primary same-beliefs group or congregation.
  

• "atheist/non-believer" will refer to all categories of non-religious people who identify as atheist, agnostic, skeptic, etc.
  

I am interested in charitable donations, volunteer work, and "little deeds of kindness" for Christians or other religious people and atheists/non-believers. The questions are divided like this:

• Primary Same-Beliefs Group
  
• Same-Beliefs Charity
  
• Opposite Beliefs Charity
  
• "Little Deeds of Kindness"
  

 

I am not asking for names of organizations; I name a few charities so people know what kind of organization I'm talking about.

 

World Vision and Habitat for Humanity may not specify on their homepages that they are Christian but they say it elsewhere in pages for "About Us," or "Mission." In "History" of the United Way I determine that it is secular and not affiliated with any "life philosophy" group such as Christian or Humanist. SHARE is the acronym for Secular Humanist Aid Relief Effort; generally, Secular Humanists reject belief in the supernatural and are atheist.

 

Some people do not have the physical or financial means to donate a lot of time or money so I am not asking how much or how often people donate. Perhaps I should have used the word "support."

[R. S. Martin]

Interestingly, todate about the same number of people have voted on the poll here as on the one posted on the Christian forums. The religious/non-believer ration is considerably different on the Christian forums than here. Here, only one religious person seems to have voted, and about 12 non-believers.

 

On the Christian forums, it's about 9 Christians and 4 non-believers. Interested parties can find those forums are here http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Helping-the-Needy-Religious-People-versus-Secularists-5763348?trail=15.

 

The pattern that is emerging is that life philosophy does not impact the human desire to help the needy. While on exC few non-believers checked boxes for donating to/volunteering for charitable organizations, on the Christian forums, non-believers contribute to charitable organizations. The non-believers on exC seem to be very strong on what I term "little deeds of kindness," even the ones that cost personal sacrifice.

 

I'm not sure why, but some Christians seem to have a real problem with the idea that non-believers may be just as good and kind as they are. I am encouraged to see that there are so many good people in the world. Of course, with only a dozen or so voters per forum at this point, it is hardly a representative sample of either Christians or non-believers as a whole.

[hereticzero]

I do not donate to charities or groups. I give what I can to individuals who ask for help. .25 cents out of every dollar donated to charities actually go to people who need help. The rest is used for overhead costs or goes into someone's pocket. If my neighbor needs help today why should I send him to a charity that requires one to prove income limitation in order to receive help? Even rich people may need help.

[blackpudd1n]

I'm with HereticZero. I help peopple where I can, but financially I just don't have the funds for it at the moment.

 

I gave away a perfectly good, hardly used washing machine a year ago. It was cheaper for me to get a new one than to transport it, and I figured someone out there could probably use it, so I told my friend who was storing it to find a single mum who needed it and just give it to her.

[R. S. Martin]

I don't have the funds, either, to donate money. But I am impressed at the "little deeds of kindness" people check in this poll. Non-believers are coming across as a really kindly and honest lot--giving up their seat for the less fortunate, returning change when given too much. Always doing for others.

 

There's so many ways of helping that don't require financial hand-outs. About 4:45 yesterday afternoon I was walking my dog and came across a woman who was begging for food. Said she had been laid off and was hungry. I didn't have food or money with me but I knew of a soup kitchen several blocks out the other way that was sure to be serving supper shortly. My arthritic feet weren't anxious to walk that extra distance but I was willing to do it if that was what it took to feed the woman.

 

In the end, she refused to go. Said her son was meeting her at that corner and he wouldn't go to the soup kitchen.

 

My offer of the soup kitchen had actually been a test to see if she was truly hungry because she looked suspicious, not like the homeless people I've seen in the area. All the same, if she had been willing for me to take her, I had been prepared to do it.

 

Another time I found at the curb a plastic bag full of red heart-shaped plastic shells that could be stuck together to make a container, like one can get with cinnamon hearts around Valentine's Day. My neighbour babysits preschoolers and kindergartners. I took the bag home and offered it to her for crafts. She was delighted.

 

A few years ago I needed a kitchen table. I went on Kijiji and found one offered for free by a blind man. He and a sighted woman delivered it and set it up without charge. I have no idea if they were religious but they sure were helpful.

 

None of us are going to get "receipts for tax purposes," or will in any way have these deeds documented for statistical records, so that when the Christians try to prove that they are the ones that take care of our society we have nothing to prove otherwise.

 

Ironically, they whose Lord and Master said not to let the left hand know what the right hand does are the ones who make sure their good deeds of charity are seen of men and recorded in high places.

[SairB]

I think the main thing religious believers find troubling is the idea that there are people out there who feel motivated to do good things for others just because they can - not because they feel an obligation or because they don't want to disappoint a deity. Having seen a topic like this debated quite a few times on CAF (Catholic Answers Forum, sometimes not for the faint-hearted), most Christian believers, in particular, are inclined to claim that atheists just don't have any reason to value others ('cause we're all nihilists, don't you know), and so must be less likely to give of their time to help the needy.

 

To be honest, the charities to which I regularly donate are evenly split between those that look after humans and those that look after other animals. The main volunteer work I've done has been with a dog shelter, primarily because I get on much better with dogs than I do most other humans!

 

But at the end of the day, whatever your means or inclination, doing something - anything - to make the world a better place and to reach out and connect with others makes you a better, usually happier person. I can say that for myself, I have been much more community-minded, much less insular, since leaving the xtian faith.

[London]

But at the end of the day, whatever your means or inclination, doing something - anything - to make the world a better place and to reach out and connect with others makes you a better, usually happier person. I can say that for myself, I have been much more community-minded, much less insular, since leaving the xtian faith.

 

I think that is very true. And as an atheist it seems a no brainer for me. But I have had the experience where I have run into xians who do all these "good deeds" and they just seem angry about it. Some more obvious than others. It's like many of them are doing thing "nice" because the church is directing them to, and I have felt the underlying anger. And sometimes I meet the martyr. Always doing so much for others but never getting anything in return. That personally annoys me.

 

It's not that hard to help another human being, no matter how big or small. And someone playing victim or having hostility in the process does not feel like someone who is really helping, it actually becomes a little frightening.

 

I don't think xians in general like to help people, especially if they are non-believers as well. But that has just been my experience in life.

[jblueep]

I'm the same person before and after I stopped believing. I think it's much more meaningful to help people that we come across day to day if we can as opposed to giving to a charity and hoping for the best.

 

Example: I came across a guy last night sitting on a sidewalk outside a convenience store. Everyone was walking past him even though he was obviously not right. I stopped just as I would have when I was a believer. I don't know if his story was true, but he claimed that he had just found out that his fiance was cheating on him. It was her house, so he was out. He had no car, no job, and no money. He seemed desperate, mostly likely suicidal. So I gave him a couple of beers and the $50 that was in my wallet. I told him that it's hard to see now, but I was sure that someone cared about him and to hold on to that. He looked at me, and said "At least I know you care about me". I said "yes, I do", wished him well and went on my way.

 

The only difference in this encounter and one when I was a believer was that I didn't end the conversation with "God bless you". The point is that we are who we are because we choose every day to be that person.

[R. S. Martin]

So I gave him a couple of beers and the $50 that was in my wallet. I told him that it's hard to see now, but I was sure that someone cared about him and to hold on to that. He looked at me, and said "At least I know you care about me".

 

Wonderful story. I thought the same thing--that at least you cared about him even if nobody else did, and that had to really mean something. A couple of beers and fifty dollars isn't exactly chicken feed.

 

Wishing someone well, in my mind, is all that "God bless" is except it is a strongly (repulsively) religious way of saying it. How nice of you not to be repulsive in your good deeds.

[Will02]

most Christian believers, in particular, are inclined to claim that atheists just don't have any reason to value others ('cause we're all nihilists, don't you know), and so must be less likely to give of their time to help the needy.

 

Interesting. If anything, atheists should be more inclined to be generous because we don't believe that everything will get fairly sorted out in heaven. No one really knows for sure what happens after death; many non-christian people believe in extinction of consciousness while others hold to some form of reincarnation.. one guess is as good as another. Most people can reasonably expect to have 70-100 years if they are lucky, so why not use that time to make a better world for everyone else because this life is all that is guaranteed to us? The world is what we make of it.

[FeelHappy]

I'm a non theist, I still give to charities but no where near the amount I did while I was aChristian, before I gave about 10% now its more like 0.5-2%.

 

I still do things like help people I see, none of that's changed.

[notmohammad]

While I don't donate much to charities, it's because many of them are riddled with waste and I can't make heads or tales of it.

 

However, I absolutely will help the needy. We give to a battered womens group, and I have taken folks that found themselves suddenly homeless into my home.

 

I know what being good to others is. And, I occasionally am good to others. It's not a controlling factor in my life, but when the situation arises, I do try to do good.

[Annier]

_{I'm a non theist, I still give to charities but no where near the amount I did while I was aChristian, before I gave about 10% now its more like 0.5-2%.}

 

I still do things like help people I see, none of that's changed.

 

 

I find this interesting.  Christians are taught that they need to give 10%, and sometimes more.  If they don't, even if  they are unable to, they have a guilt trip laid on them.  Xtianity even controls how much you should give to others

 

Like you, I give what I can, and its usually not monetary, but does have value.  And I give what I want, because I want to, and what is within the limits I decide, not what someone tells me.  Many xtians that I have known will do a lot for people, but they make sure everyone knows about it, and if a recipient does not show enough gratitude, they have complained, and sometimes refused to help that cause in the future.   Xtians do their 'xtian duty'.  Nonbelievers do it because they choose.

[Guest Marty]

This is not really about giving to charity, but I was out on a smoke break with a christian once at the recording studio, and a bum started walking over to us talking about something neither of us could understand.  The christian jumped in the door to the studio and was whispering for me to follow along.  But the bum didn't seem drunk, and appeared very happy and excited, so I met him halfway in the parking lot and discovered that this guy was just given 2 pizzas from the Papa Johns across the street and actually offered me some!  I politely declined because this man needed it far more than I, and I went to my car and got the spare change in my console, and gave it to him to get himself something to drink to wash it down with.  At this point the christian had stuck his head out the studio door and told me I "had a phone call".  As I got to the door he said under his breath, "what are you doing?  Be careful."  The thought then occurred to me to open the mini fridge by the front door and I brought the man 2 Cokes and told him to have a nice evening.

 

Once inside and washing my hands, the christian said he "had my back" through the whole thing, and that I was foolish to have gone up to him and spoken to him.  It was tempting to turn it into a "WWJD" moment, but he knew I was an Atheist, so I wanted to simply lead by example.  All I said about it was "that man is a human being too, and all he wanted was to share his dinner with us.  If I was in that position I would sure want people to help me, and Im not so sure I would be so willing to share such a scarce resource as food.  I respect that man."  We then went in to finish the session.

 

That's my experience with christian charity.  "Eww, run away, that man's dirty…"

[RipVanWinkle]

Marty: Good for you. If there is any good lesson I learned from Xtianity it is to not judge people prematurely. The irony is that a lot of Xtians have not learned that lesson. Years ago when I was a christian, I went to a "share group" for bible study, etc. During the meeting I made some reference to the fact that jesus was sent primarily for the poor. A a guy said, " I in don't think wealth makes any difference." I quoted to him the comment by Jesus that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. But that with god anything is possible. He said, "See, anything is possible with god." He got no message from the verse whatsoever.  I then showed him some verses in James where it was made very clear that jesus came FOR THE POOR.

Here a guy was a Xtian for some time and didn't know Jesus' attitude toward the poor! How could he be a Xtian and not know that?

Also I have run into a number of Xtians who refuse to give anything to a street beggar. Their beliefs are unconnected to what Jesus taught! It is because they listen to what they want to hear and read what they agree with beforehand. Nothing else.   bill

[Ravenstar]

I serve where I can. I volunteer, and have all my life - well, since I was 17. I've donated to KIVA  awesome program by the way. I carry a plastic bag with me when I walk and pick up litter, because it pisses me off to see litter. I donate to the Diabetes Foundation and the local food bank.

 

I rescue cats when I come across one.    (and bunnies, birds, any in-distress animal) Sometimes I'll buy a sandwich for a homeless person. I rarely give cash though.

 

I am a member of Amnesty International.

 

I do pro bono graphics for charitable org's, as long as they are secular. 

 

I grow herbs in my garden and share them with my neighbours. I help my neighbours when I can. I always tip people in service jobs.

 

 

I don't have a lot of cash, but I help when and how I am able. For me it's not special or anything - I just feel like I should help out. I think the world would be a better place if everyone did just a little, in their own way. I always try to treat people with respect, especially my elders and hold doors, offer to help them if they seem overloaded. Was just raised that way.

 

 

Weirdly, I've never tithed - though I threw a couple of bucks here and there into the collection plate.

 

I've always been this way... before and after religion.

[R. S. Martin]

Marty: Good for you. If there is any good lesson I learned from Xtianity it is to not judge people prematurely. The irony is that a lot of Xtians have not learned that lesson. Years ago when I was a christian, I went to a "share group" for bible study, etc. During the meeting I made some reference to the fact that jesus was sent primarily for the poor. A a guy said, " I in don't think wealth makes any difference." I quoted to him the comment by Jesus that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. But that with god anything is possible. He said, "See, anything is possible with god." He got no message from the verse whatsoever.  I then showed him some verses in James where it was made very clear that jesus came FOR THE POOR.

Here a guy was a Xtian for some time and didn't know Jesus' attitude toward the poor! How could he be a Xtian and not know that?

Also I have run into a number of Xtians who refuse to give anything to a street beggar. Their beliefs are unconnected to what Jesus taught! It is because they listen to what they want to hear and read what they agree with beforehand. Nothing else.   bill

 

Sounds to me like you encountered "prosperity gospel." There really are people who believe that wealth is a sign of God's blessing. I once saw an interview with a televangelist of that stripe. In answer to one question he said something along the lines of "If you're not (rich, wealth) you must be doing something wrong because it says so right here in the Bible." I forget which verse he twisted. Don't all "get rich quick" preachers tend to be rich, even if they call themselves by honest names such as financial advisor?

 

In answer to his question about doing something wrong, I'm thinking: Yeah, sure, you're probably not ripping off enough people.

 

Or maybe you're not in the right life situation. Such as not born to wealthy parents. Or you didn't win the lottery. Or get lucky on the stock market. Or...I'm sure we all have our theories about the acquisition of wealth. What I'm getting at here in this post is that there really are people who make a religion of it with the Bible and God on the Throne. It's called prosperity gospel.