473 replies to this topic

[electech98]

Hey all,

I will continue posting in the "I told my wife" thread with updates on how things are going, but for now I thought I'd put this in a separate thread because it seems to me it would merit its own special responses apart from how things are going with the wife, etc.

I received an email from my father-in-law last night (remember, he is also a pastor in the same denomination we are members of). I will be taking a few days to compose myself to write out a thoughtful reply, but I would love to hear some useful things from you all that I could possibly use in part of my reply to him.

In sum, my wife talked to him the other day, and told her of my "struggling with the faith". She did not go so far as to say that I already consider myself an unbeliever or an atheist, but it sounds like (from his email) that she let on enough to get a very stern response from him. So, without further ado, here is the email:

Dear Jeremy,

I write having been in prayer for you and you family with Christian love and I write continuing to pray for you and I speak the truth to you in love, and I ask for your forgiveness ahead of time if indeed I am misrepresenting the situation.

I'm sure you're aware that <wife's name> has spoken to me about her concerns regarding your expressed "doubts", really lack of the true faith you have professed.

True faith, as you professed, may you receive this as a strong reminder, is, in part: a sure knowledge whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in His Word.
If, indeed, you have doubts about what is truth, than you are in effect doubting God's Word as Truth, and, to make such doubt even more critical, you are doubting Christ Jesus who is the Truth manifested in its fullness. So if indeed you have doubts about what is truth, you are no longer having your thoughts in captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5). To doubt any scriptural doctrine is to place yourself as judge over the Scriptures. In essence, it's the oldest sin of wanting to be as God. It's characteristic of existentialism ( very similar to postmodernism), in that you are then essentially claiming that existence precedes essence. That is, you are the determiner, as the source by existence, of what is of essence- truth. That view suppresses the truth of the primacy of God as the Creator and the interpreter of all facts - God is the objective reality outside of you, and by His revelation by way of the creation and more fully by His Word reality, truth, is knowable by us, unless we suppress it in unrighteousness. Of course, all men in Adam do just that ( Rom 1), but in Christ our minds are renewed to acknowledge His Word as truth as we then so confess.

Now if you do have doubts about what is truth, then you have allowed "foolishness" ( I Cor 1: 19-21) to detrimentally influence your mindset. This can sadly be the case for us who are Christians because we live in the "not-yet" which is prior to our full sanctification and perfection through the resurrection. Wrong thinking, is for us, lack of due diligence to "watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation" (Matt 26:41). It's a matter of not putting off the old man and putting on the new man. It's a matter of not paying careful heed to what Christ's apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesian Christians: This I say, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk in the futility of their mind. (Eph 4:17. Rather...be renewed in the spirit of your mind. And then he goes on in Chapter 5 and tells us to walk as children of light, testing and approving what is pleasing to the Lord.

Are you doing that, Jeremy? Are you renewing your mind with the Word of God or are you putting foolishness into it? Are you testing your thoughts and your actions by the standard of God's Word ...because when you do it's easily clear what is and what is not pleasing to God. And then, are you approving of what is pleasing to God...making it your choice in line with what is pleasing to God? I just preached on Eph 5:10 ..I would encourage you to listen to that sermon...it's at <website>.

Jeremy, it's a matter of renewing you mind and God will do that as you make use of His Word and stop putting foolishness into it.
That is your calling as a Christian and especially as you are the spiritual head of your household --my daughter and my grandchildren. You are as Christ to <wife's name>, and you corrupt the marriage metaphor if you do not believe and witness and teach the truth to her. And you vowed at the baptism of your children to bring them up in the nurture of the Lord, the Truth, and it is your responsibility before the Lord to faithfully do so.

Your lack of belief in the truth, if that is indeed the case, is sinful selfishness because it shows no concern for the welfare of your wife and children.
I believe this is a backsliding episode in your life, and the Lord will sanctify you, but it might be by way of hardships and misery that will impact your family.
That is avoidable if indeed you repent and and get your mind renewed to again think God's thoughts after Him, submitting to Him as you have been redeemed to do for His glory and your delight in Him.
I know wiley ways of the devil and so I understand how you can come to mistrust God's Word. But read nothing but Scripture and books that affirm the doctrines of Scripture and once again you will come to know both intellectually and experientially that by Christ all things were created that are in heaven and on earth....all things were created through Him and for HIm and He is before all things and in HIm all things consist. (Col: 1:16-17).

Any one who does not grasp the preeminence of Christ and the surpassing excellence of God will live a wasted life.

Don't waste your life by keeping on going down that path of doubt.

Be the husband and father you can only be by the grace of God in whom you must place your trust as the Truth.

I pray you will heed these prayerful words of one who loves you and wants what is best for you, and your beloved family.

Feel free to write or call. I'm here to help.

In Christ with love,

Dad

So, thoughts? Keep it clean

Edited by electech98, 10 May 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[LivingLife]

Paulinist, guilt trip, dunno man you are screwed.

He does not even ask what doubts you had. I would not give him the time of day as you will be wasting your time.

There is not even a remote hint of compassion or empathy, just a bombastic asshole.

Move asap and get wife away from daddy.

[zomberina]

you are no longer having your thoughts in captivity to the obedience of Christ

I have coffee coming through my nose right now.... He obviously doesn't recognize the negative connotation of that remark....ROFLMAO

Seriously, I wouldn't even respond to this.

[Kurari]

Do you want to tell him that you are an atheist or just not talk about it?

If you don't want to get into a long discussion about it yet, write back acknowledging the letter saying, "Thanks for the e-mail, but this is something a bit too raw for me to talk about right now. It's between me and God."

[Thought2Much]

I got as far as "To doubt any scriptural doctrine is to place yourself as judge over the Scriptures. In essence, it's the oldest sin of wanting to be as God." That's when I did a facepalm, and couldn't read any further.

There is no reasonable response you can send. According to your father in-law, you're not allowed to "judge" the scriptures. You're not allowed to question any of the doctrine. It's your job to just "trust and obey," with emphasis on the "obey" part.

[mcdaddy]

I'll make this simple because I'm busy, but feel the need to reply as well!

A) re: "God's Word" - prove it's Gods Word. Just saying so doesn't make it so.

"Thoughts in CAPTIVITY of Jesus Christ"??? WTF. so you turn over your brain to him and shut off all reason and logic?

C)Damn right I'll be judge over the scriptures! What other area of your life would you just subject yourself to something without testing it??

D)Quoting bible verses doesnt prove a damn thing.

E) funny how "foolishness" can be backed up by evidence and logic, but "truth" has zilch to hold it up.

F) your lack of faith is "sinful" - damn if thats not mind control bullshit, i dont know what is. sorry, im not keeping it clean so far. trigger point.

G) wasted life - how exceedingly arrogant.

Edited by mcdaddy, 08 May 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Suzanne]

I think you're right, taking a couple of days to compose your answer.

Your father in law clearly means well, which makes it far more difficult to have a discussion, seeing how convinced he is of his viewpoint. I would explain to him that you see several things that he assumes differently (such as that you're being selfish, which really isn't a nice thing to say). Maybe tell him that surely, God gave us intelligence for a reason and we should use it to think about what the bible means, not just blindly follow it. (You could even quote Paul saying "Put all things to the test: keep what is good" (1Thess 5:21). ) Assure him that you will not stop your wife from living a religious life if she so desires. Other than that, I think trying to have an in-depth discussion would likely not work, because he's not open to looking at the situation from your point of view.

[Thought2Much]

I decided to force my way through the rest of this nonsense. I love this part:

"Your lack of belief in the truth, if that is indeed the case, is sinful selfishness because it shows no concern for the welfare of your wife and children.
I believe this is a backsliding episode in your life, and the Lord will sanctify you, but it might be by way of hardships and misery that will impact your family."

Watch out! God's gonna getcha! Ooga-booga!

[mcdaddy]

I think you're right, taking a couple of days to compose your answer.

Your father in law clearly means well, which makes it far more difficult to have a discussion, seeing how convinced he is of his viewpoint. I would explain to him that you see several things that he assumes differently (such as that you're being selfish, which really isn't a nice thing to say). Maybe tell him that surely, God gave us intelligence for a reason and we should use it to think about what the bible means, not just blindly follow it. (You could even quote Paul saying "Put all things to the test: keep what is good" (1Thess 5:21). ) Assure him that you will not stop your wife from living a religious life if she so desires. Other than that, I think trying to have an in-depth discussion would likely not work, because he's not open to looking at the situation from your point of view.

Right on. We have intelligence above every other animal, FREAKING USE IT. Tell him if he'll act mature enough to read some books that expose it for what it is (archaeological, historical, etc ) so he can know your point of view better, that would be the best way to start a dialogue. As anything educational will surely be called "a test of the devil" though, i wouldnt hold my breath.

[jblueep]

...read nothing but Scripture and books that affirm the doctrines of Scripture and once again you will come to know both intellectually and experientially...

This is by definition indoctrination and admission that the bible can't stand up to outside questioning.

I agree with others here that he has no interest in knowing what you are thinking. Responding is probably a waste of time, although you may have to for your wife's benefit.

[mcdaddy]

Watch out! God's gonna getcha! Ooga-booga!

that made me chuckle at an audible decibel level.

Edited by mcdaddy, 08 May 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Thought2Much]

Watch out! God's gonna getcha! Ooga-booga!

that made me chuckle at an audible decibel level.

Thanks. There is actually a serious point in that.

Electech, your father in-law has basically set you up so that he can now blame any problem that you or your family ever has in the future, however minor or major, on the fact that you have doubts about the Bible and God.

• Car won't start? If you still followed God, you could have prevented that. (Because believers never have car trouble.)
• You got laid off from your job? Too bad you weren't obedient to God. (Because believers never lose their jobs.)
• You didn't get the promotion you wanted? If you only prayed about it, you would have gotten it. (Because believers always get what they pray for.)
• Your kid failed a class? That's your fault for not earnestly seeking God's blessings in his word. (Because believers always ace every test, of course.)
• Oh, someone in your family has cancer? If only you trusted in the Lord, they would have been spared. (Because believers and their relatives never get sick or die.)

Again, I see no reason whatsoever to respond to this crap.

[stryper]

That is your calling as a Christian and especially as you are the spiritual head of your household --my daughter and my grandchildren. You are as Christ to <wife's name>, and you corrupt the marriage metaphor if you do not believe and witness and teach the truth to her. And you vowed at the baptism of your children to bring them up in the nurture of the Lord, the Truth, and it is your responsibility before the Lord to faithfully do so.

I'd watch out for this. He claiming dominion over your family because you are having doubt. My guess would be with the second bolded part that he will threaten to disown your wife and kids, will consistently tell your wife what an evil person you are, and will probably try to manipulate her into leaving you and taking the kids. Basically, He is still laying claim to his daughter as his and is telling you he will do what he can to keep her in the fold and under control. Because she's just an ignorant woman.

At least that is how I see it.

Get as far away from him as is possible. And soon.

[mcdaddy]

Yeah, I agree. if you come back with some weak ****, he'll prey (pardon the pun) on that. You gotta act gangsta. Show him you're your own man and that you arrived at your conclusion based on lots of study and thought, and that if he can't give you a modicum of respect from one man to another, thats his problem.

Of course thats easy for me to say. I'm on the other side of a computer screen..

[florduh]

Just an all too typical pompous Christian who knows what's good for everyone.

I would simply inform him:

"Many people hold opinions and beliefs that differ from yours, and I am one of those people. You are entitled to yours, and I am equally entitled to mine. We should just agree to disagree, and I hope you will let it go at that. Religious opinion shall from here on be a forbidden topic in order to keep the peace. For everyone's sake, I hope you are willing to abide by that request."

Edited by florduh, 08 May 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[stryper]

Of course thats easy for me to say. I'm on the other side of a computer screen..

Hehe Internet tough guy.

[CDFree]

Emotional black mail, personally I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of an answer, how you "run" your family is up to you AND your wife, none of the sexist submission stuff (which I'm sure you don't) or an of the rest of the stuff - its none of his business at the end of the day.

[blackpudd1n]

Has your wife seen the email? Might be an idea to show her the rather sexist bit and say that you're not interested in controlling her like that, because you respect her too much. She might never have thought about how sexist all that submission bullshit is.

[LoneTarus]

The only thing I get out of his letter is "how dare you reject the brainwashing, you better get back with the program, I'm an authority on these matters and I'm going to do what it takes to manipulate you back into the fold" I also agree with another poster who saw the possibility of him trying to get your wife to leave your or something like that.

I don't know how that letter made you feel but it made me very angry reading that letter. particularly the parts where he accused you of not taking care of the welfare of your wife and kids and that you are somehow wasting your life by doubting jebus.

Sometimes I think it should be legal to punch people in the face for pulling crap like this...

[Denyoz]

Has your father-in-law read your letter? Ask him to respond to the letter if he loves you that much.

I don't know how you can deal with a closed-minded asshole like that.

You could try telling him that the God who created your brain certainly does not want you to keep "your thoughts in captivity". But I'm sure he will not be open to ANY kind of opposition to what he has said.

Maybe the only chance you have at keeping him off your back would be to respond something like: "Thank you for your email. I will think about everything that you have said." And then just ignore him. If he confronts you again, repeat: "I'm still thinking about everything you have said."

By the way, I don't find anything loving about his letter. He's threatening you. Isn't there no law in your country that protects you against this?