16 replies to this topic

[Citsonga]

Biggest Threat to Religion? Clergy People Coming Out as Atheists
http://www.alternet....theists_?page=1

[3DollarBill]

Last week's atheist experience show was on this topic. I recommend.

Must be a terrible position to be in. So many pastors went to "bible colleges" which are really just indoctrination centers and don't prepare you for a job in the real world. A personal friend lost his longtime position with a children's mission organization, and decided to go to law school. Smart guy but he had the damnedest time even getting in because it was unclear if his bible college degree was an actual bachelor's.

I guess that's why I can't hold anything against the preachers, youth directors, ss teachers, and camp counselors of my youth. Yes, they are the ones who kept me imprisoned in a delusion...but they are victims even more than I am. They got sucked in that much deeper. They're like POWs with broken legs who couldn't escape even if they had the chance.

For me church was just a social network, and not even a very good one, so no huge loss. For the pastor, church is everything. When I quit I was moving to a different state anyway, so nobody noticed. Somebody quits the ministry...everybody notices.

Like any good churchie I wondered if I would deny my faith should I be threatened because of it. Now I wonder the opposite- at what price would I 'just play along'?

[stryper]

I think the thinking atheist has done a show like this too.

It's become a bigger issue then many in the church would like to admit.

This is partly why I feel for my sister. If she ever has doubts, it will be hard with a pastor husband and all that goes with it. it was her choice though.

[GardenerGal]

I thought her article was lazy, and she didn't offer any new information. As said above, the thinking atheist covers this well.

[TrailBlazer]

Must be a terrible position to be in. So many pastors went to "bible colleges" which are really just indoctrination centers and don't prepare you for a job in the real world. A personal friend lost his longtime position with a children's mission organization, and decided to go to law school. Smart guy but he had the damnedest time even getting in because it was unclear if his bible college degree was an actual bachelor's.

I'm a Jesus school drop-out. One semester from graduating with my BS. My education there is exactly what made me atheist. I know too many indoctrinated bible-thumping xians. But I know quite a handful who were like me; they could not resolve their cognitive dissonance and either dropped out or sucked it up until they graduated.

The Clergy Project is greatly needed. I suspected a few of my professors at the christian uni might have been deists or closet atheists, but because of their position as an ordained minister and doctor of theology professor at a xian university, did not or could not come clean.

A few professors have up and quit in the past though. My heart really went out to them as I spent a lot of time talking with them. The professors who were solid bible-thumping believers weren't great at discussing theological issues at all because they beat around the bush with generic xian answers. One told me to believe anyway because, on the off chance that it was all true, I wouldn't want to risk my soul going to hell. Another assured me that if I prayed with enough faith God would reveal himself to me and erase all my doubts. One said I should put aside my silly questions because if I searched for the answers I may find myself in disbelief of the gospel- (REALLY??)

[marmot]

I thought her article was lazy, and she didn't offer any new information. As said above, the thinking atheist covers this well.

I don't know that you can say it was lazy unless you know the intent of the author. To someone that has not heard at all about the Clergy Project or that there are atheist pastors it is a short, somewhat informative piece. She didn't really do any research but it seems like this could be intended to be a "summary" piece. Not sure.

Of course, none of this is new information to us because we've had our ear to the ground about this stuff. I am not sure who Alternet's readership base is but perhaps this is new information for them.

I would like for her to perhaps follow up with some more of the clergy project people -- some of the anonymous ones that are still working on a plan. That would be interesting!

[Citsonga]

I realize the Clergy Project isn't new to most of us here. What I didn't realize until seeing this article, though, is that the number of applicatants for the project has escalated in the past few months. I think that's great.

I'm not sure that I agree with the author's optimism about it causing a lot of questioning among the religious as a whole, though, since it's easy for them to write off those who "fall away" as having been "false teachers" or as being "deceived by the devil."

[MrsRoper]

I realize the Clergy Project isn't new to most of us here. What I didn't realize until seeing this article, though, is that the number of applicatants for the project has escalated in the past few months. I think that's great.

I'm not sure that I agree with the author's optimism about it causing a lot of questioning among the religious as a whole, though, since it's easy for them to write off those who "fall away" as having been "false teachers" or as being "deceived by the devil."

That may be true but I think we are going to get to a point where all the things we know about the bible are going to be shared with your average lay person. There are so many pastors that learn from the historical-critical method but then continue to teach the church's traditional party line. This is going to have to come a head, it's been at least 100 years that biblical studies professors & students have known this stuff, how much longer can this misinformation be passed? I'd like to see it happen in my lifetime, but it will probably take another 1000 years.

[mcdaddy]

I realize the Clergy Project isn't new to most of us here. What I didn't realize until seeing this article, though, is that the number of applicatants for the project has escalated in the past few months. I think that's great.

I'm not sure that I agree with the author's optimism about it causing a lot of questioning among the religious as a whole, though, since it's easy for them to write off those who "fall away" as having been "false teachers" or as being "deceived by the devil."

That may be true but I think we are going to get to a point where all the things we know about the bible are going to be shared with your average lay person. There are so many pastors that learn from the historical-critical method but then continue to teach the church's traditional party line. This is going to have to come a head, it's been at least 100 years that biblical studies professors & students have known this stuff, how much longer can this misinformation be passed? I'd like to see it happen in my lifetime, but it will probably take another 1000 years.

In 200 years xianity will be relegated to a myth by the majority. Hell it could be a lot less than that. Te Internet spells death for xianity.

[FeelHappy]

That may be true but I think we are going to get to a point where all the things we know about the bible are going to be shared with your average lay person. There are so many pastors that learn from the historical-critical method but then continue to teach the church's traditional party line. This is going to have to come a head, it's been at least 100 years that biblical studies professors & students have known this stuff, how much longer can this misinformation be passed? I'd like to see it happen in my lifetime, but it will probably take another 1000 years.

I really wonder if some of us would now be atheists if we were taught with the historical critical method from the beginning. I think there's something harder about coming from a fundamentalist background thinking that the bible was the inerrant word of god only to later realizing that's not true. Had I been taught that the bible contains errors but is true with regards to things pertaining to salvation I'm not sure I would have studied it as hard for answers and I wouldn't have found that the truth is outside of god.

[TrueFreedom]

In 200 years xianity will be relegated to a myth by the majority. Hell it could be a lot less than that. Te Internet spells death for xianity.

I hope that you're right. But I'm afraid that if Christianity dies, it will die in submission to Islam. The internet is helping the spread of different perspectives, but the hold of revelation is strong.

[marmot]

I would not be surprised if Christianity was severely diminished in the next 50 years (only 30-40% of the country would identify as Christian) but I just don't see it disappearing. I have known too many people that have been shown the facts repeatedly (and are even rational people) and they still somehow justify their faith.

Not to mention the reproductive rate. Fundy families are outbreeding us in droves. Several of my closest atheist friend couples (scientists, doctors, lawyers) do not plan on having children. Several of my Christian friends of the same age are already working on baby #3...and they aren't even fundamentalists!

I don't know very much about the history of Islam. From what I do know they are more authoritarian, more centrally unified/homogeneous and more based on revelation than Christianity. A scary trifecta.

[GardenerGal]

I realize the Clergy Project isn't new to most of us here. What I didn't realize until seeing this article, though, is that the number of applicatants for the project has escalated in the past few months. I think that's great.

I'm not sure that I agree with the author's optimism about it causing a lot of questioning among the religious as a whole, though, since it's easy for them to write off those who "fall away" as having been "false teachers" or as being "deceived by the devil."

That's what I would have done as a fundy.

[MrsRoper]

My hope is that Islam will fail too. What I wonder is why people will continue to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence against their religion? We know a whole lot more about Joseph Smith than we do about Paul, and yet the Mormon faith grows. There is not a doubt in my mind that all it takes is a charismatic con man to start a religion, and yet when history proves this their followers choose faith over evidence. It boggles my mind.

I know a lot of people, even on this site, that think well if religion is helping someone then let them have their beliefs. But how is believing in a lie ultimately helpful for anyone, or our broader culture? I truly struggle with this, because if you add all those individuals that need their faith to live - we end up with various groups participating in cooperative delusions & then trying to enforce their unethical beliefs on every citizen. This disturbs me greatly.

[TrueFreedom]

When a man like L. Ron Hubbard is revered as a prophet, teapot spaghetti monster help us all!

[ficino]

Not to mention the reproductive rate. Fundy families are outbreeding us in droves. Several of my closest atheist friend couples (scientists, doctors, lawyers) do not plan on having children. Several of my Christian friends of the same age are already working on baby #3...and they aren't even fundamentalists!

This is true of very orthodox and Hasidic Jews, too. The percentage of Jewish people in NY metro area has increased notably over the last decade because of the large families of the "frum."

[marmot]

When a man like L. Ron Hubbard is revered as a prophet, teapot spaghetti monster help us all!

Game, set, match!