23 replies to this topic

[Lilith666]

I have trouble praying because it feels too Xian and I want to detach myself from any partiality about X and his affiliates. I keep thinking that my accomplishments are my own and I don't need God's help. But then when I'm in trouble or need something, I find myself praying for help.
1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?
2) Does any die-hard non-Xian pray?

[Burnedout]

Think of it as a form of meditation and centering yourself. That is all.

[florduh]

Self talk is done in different forms and is common.

1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?

Are you serious?

[sjessen]

I have trouble praying because it feels too Xian and I want to detach myself from any partiality about X and his affiliates. I keep thinking that my accomplishments are my own and I don't need God's help. But then when I'm in trouble or need something, I find myself praying for help.
1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?
2) Does any die-hard non-Xian pray?

My answers:
1) No
2) Yes

There are non-Christians who still believe there is a god, just not the god that has supposedly been revealed to certain people in the "revealed religions" (Christianity, Judaism, Muslim). They are called Deists. If you find that you still believe in there being a God, you might want to investigate this further.

Edited by sjessen, 18 June 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[blackpudd1n]

Prayer was a long-time habit for you. You don't kick a habit overnight.

[3DollarBill]

Prayer was a long-time habit for you. You don't kick a habit overnight.

Absolutely.

Lilith you're not alone. Sometimes I catch myself starting to pray too, and those are the only times I miss all of it. Christianity distorts your morality, makes you scared of the world, destroys your relationships, etc etc... But for all the pain and anxiety that comes with it you gotta admit it was great having god up there to lend you a hand once in a while. You can't help but miss that, I know I can't.

Don't worry about it and don't read too much into it. You know full well there's not actually anybody up there who is gonna solve all your problems for you while you sit idly by. Saying a prayer might help you focus your own thoughts and figure out how to help yourself. The worst that can happen is, well...nothing.

[Thurisaz]

[...]
1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?
2) Does any die-hard non-Xian pray?

I've never been a brainfucked morontheist (German mainstream churches are the mother of all lukewarm ) and I am now an Asatruar, so it's not just either christian or atheist and it's not either one or no deity either

That said...

Ad 2:
Yes I do pray sometimes, it's rare though. To say it with my words, Divine entities have Divine business to take care of, you don't bother them with all kind of selfish crap unless you really have no other choice.

Now that that has been answered, ad 1:
If I pray for something and it seems like that gets answered, why would I think that I (or the respective other person... usually I pray for assistance of other people, not because I need something for me personally) didn't contribute at all? The High God's help - assuming their existence of course, others will disagree - would be given on top of your own efforts, not instead of them. To assume the latter would seem both lazy and arrogant to me. If you asked a real, human friend for help with, say, carrying a heavy load and he agreed to help you, would you then expect him to do all the work and just watch him toil?

I thought so.

So why would anyone expect the deity she prayed to to do all the work then?

Hope to have helped... I just got up and the coffee probably didn't take full effect yet so I'd like to blame any incoherence on that

[BrotherJosh]

Hmmm, I would say that prayer is an infantile form of meditation. While I can't claim to have any expertise or knowledge on meditation, I do know it is useful for me, and has been proven to be beneficial from a neurological perspective.

[Adam5]

I try to avoid praying now. When you think about it, praying is incompatible with the idea of a good God. If God is good, he will do the right thing regardless of what we ask. Just asking for stuff to happen like most do, strikes me as begging as can be quite selfish. So that is why i stopped praying.

Edited by Adam5, 19 June 2012 - 03:44 AM.

[raoul]

Regarding prayer in general - I love how the institution claims that God answers ALL prayers even when he says 'no'. To my way of thinking if I were looking for a 'yes' and got a 'no' then that isn't an answer to anything. It's a rejection. That famous line in 'The Godfather' where they're trying to make the peace says it all. Richard Conte replies to Don Corleone by saying a rejection is not the answer from a friend or something to that effect....

[Paine]

I have trouble praying because it feels too Xian and I want to detach myself from any partiality about X and his affiliates. I keep thinking that my accomplishments are my own and I don't need God's help. But then when I'm in trouble or need something, I find myself praying for help.
1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?
2) Does any die-hard non-Xian pray?

I think you simply have not learned how to hear your OWN inner voice yet, so you are "asking" yourself by the comfortable learned process of prayer.

I don't feel guilty when I "pray" --- meaning appeal to my higher inner self for some enlightenment. I have just turned that "prayer" process increasingly more inward until now I simply don't invoke the name of Jesus anymore.

With practice, perhaps this will happen for you and your "prayers" will become more and more simply a form of open ended meditation.

Don't feel guilt. Its a process.

[Paine]

Hmmm, I would say that prayer is an infantile form of meditation. While I can't claim to have any expertise or knowledge on meditation, I do know it is useful for me, and has been proven to be beneficial from a neurological perspective.

Yep. Infantile meditation.

Keep it up....you'll get to the real thing eventually. good luck.

[micksherlock]

I have trouble praying because it feels too Xian and I want to detach myself from any partiality about X and his affiliates. I keep thinking that my accomplishments are my own and I don't need God's help. But then when I'm in trouble or need something, I find myself praying for help.
1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?
2) Does any die-hard non-Xian pray?

I think it is an issue of dependency and that is going to take a while to break. If you pray for good results and get them, was it because a god helped you, or because you wanted it so bad that you put your all into it and focussed? Who knows?

With regards to the Second point, I have been referred to as a die-hard non-Christian, and have written articles with titles like "Was Jesus the Bastard Son of a Menstruate and Promiscuous Woman,' so I think I qualify, perhaps in my own mind only, to answer your 2nd question.

I pray all the time! For me, it is not to Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, or any god or goddess, but to nothingness, to the possibility of a being, principle, or kind of lucky charm, that may or may not exist. I think as long as your prayers are not hinged on belief, they are harmless and even beneficial. I do not know!

[Lilith666]

Self talk is done in different forms and is common.

1) Do you think that if you pray for, say, help on a test and you do well, that it means you can't take responsibility for success?

Are you serious?

You mean I should still be proud of myself for scoring well? I guess this give-glory-to-gawd mindset is part of the dregs from my Xianity. The fundies always hammered it in that everyone should glorify X before taking pride in anything they have done.
I felt guilty for saying I don't need X and then expecting a higher power to help me when I need it.

[raoul]

It is incredibly hard to break the cycle of praying because it's so ingrained in our physiological makeups but I think I heard the best way of doing this years ago. Richard Widmark, the late actor who was brilliant in 'Kiss of Death' was in a movie near the end of his life. He played a grandfather who was a farmer and had his grandson living with him. One day when something good happened (I forget what it actually was), the kid exclaimed 'we should thank God for' this or whatever it was. The wise old man responded 'well if you're gonna thank God for the good things in life you'd better be prepared to thank him for the bad things as well'.

We have a tendency to thank a god for the good things but blame the same god for the bad things - I know I've done that in the past. My solution? Quite simple - don't thank him/her or blame them either...

[florduh]

I felt guilty for saying I don't need X

There is no X. There is only U.

[mcdaddy]

I'm honestly surprised that with a thread title like this one, it hasn't reached 49 pages yet.

[raoul]

I'm honestly surprised that with a thread title like this one, it hasn't reached 49 pages yet.

Well I guess I can start another fight with that 3Dollar whatever the rest of his name is. Believe me, if we do then this will become 4900 pages long! ROFL
Hint - just tell him Billy Graham is a dick and then duck... LOL

[stryper]

my understanding is that people who pray regularly have similar effects on their bodies and such that people who meditate do.


Meditation is a way to help you relax and has many benefits. I have noticed I tend to be calmer and can more easily deal with the ups and downs in life. Need to do it a bit more often, though.

to each their own.