14 replies to this topic

[MrsRoper]

I think if it's a choice between joyfully submitting to an asshat or Jeebus, I'd pick Jeebus too: http://jezebel.com/5...-your-boyfriend

[blackpudd1n]

You know what's really funny to me, personally? I got married as a fundy at the age of 18, and he was such a douche, that I was a feminist by the time I left him lol. Sometimes marrying youngs girls off and telling them to submit can really fucking backfire!!!

[LivingLife]

We had saying back in my teen years of "on your back you bitch" and I always saw this submission shit as no more than that. I cannot remember why or what that phrase was used but it was in a joking manner like "get back to the kitchen wench". None of us actually meant it as something bad.

The submission crap just seems to take this and make it a reality. I know I have never treated any woman with this disdain. If anything, it was tables reversed and I had to be the perfect gentleman and suck up to her. That is called chivalry and probably something of a lost art/attitude.

As for loving jeebus, one would be washing his feet, adorning him with the most expensive perfume, he must have really smelled bad if you come to think of it?

I wonder if they sell jesus shaped dildos? Seems they do, here is one not to offensive.

Edited by LivingLife, 28 June 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[GardenerGal]

Interesting article.

"...organizations like the CBMW complain that feminism has made women too picky, too demanding, too unappreciative of ordinary dudes."

Yeah, too picky. Or on the flip side, raising the bar for ordinary dudes to stop being so damn ordinary and boring.

Studies indicate those in egalitarian (a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs) relationships have the highest rate of success. I studied that in college, and it stood with me even in my time as a Christian. While I don't think submission is a terrible word (because I have the choice to do so or not), I always kept that statistic in mind. I know it's true for our marriage.

[Burnedout]

Back before I got into business for myself, I worked for a guy who would tell younger guys who worked for him who were unmarried, to go to the Latin American world to find a wife. He said American women are too upity. NO KIDDING.

[Akheia]

I've known a few of those ultra-bitter Men's Rights Activists types too--all completely loathesome, and oh how these swine swore by their Filipino mail-order brides because American women just didn't "appreciate" a "real man" enough. The wives in question, at least the ones I met, were universally fucking CRAZY on a scale that nobody'd believe (one demanded he get rid of his satellite TV subscription because the dish "beamed cancer waves into the house").

It's funny that even fundies realize that fundie men are hardly any sort of catch. An imaginary boyfriend who never returns calls, never talks to you, never gives you any sort of recognition, affirmation, or anything else (much less presents for your birthday!), and never touches you is far preferable to the "Men are from Mars" assholes that populate evangelicalism. The solution: Certainly they're not suggesting fundie men re-examine their own bigotry. Oh no. THOSE EVIL FEMINISTS MUST LOWER THEIR STANDARDS. But sooner or later the Philippines are going to run out of women and the patriarchy/quiverfull women will start leaving by the truckload, and then what will these awful men do?

It's so nice to think that this kind of thinking is an ever-receding wave. Inevitably this misogyny will end.

[FeelHappy]

When I was engaged, we'd read christian books about how the wife was supposed to submit but the husband was to be as christ unto her.....so absurd.

[Babylonian Dream]

See I always wondered how I was going to deal with that situation. I like to have a dominant partner, who tries to be dominant, and me be dominant, and we work together to compliment eachother in that way. No submission. So I was disappointed learning that it was meant to be that I would have to alone be dominant and have to work while she stays home and be's nothing more than a housewife. I kinda felt miserable at the thought of it.

[Akheia]

BD, how do both partners manage to be dominant at the same time? A dom necessarily implies a sub. Just sayin'. Did you mean you wanted a wife who was your equal?

The problem with a dom/sub marriage is that the sub inevitably loses every single fight. It's completely unfair, a very tilted table. It doesn't matter if the sub is right or wrong in any conflict, because the dom is the one who is the trump card, the deciding vote. And whoever that sub is, s/he is going to resent the dom for this unfairness eventually. Evangelical women are suffering by the thousands, by the millions for this injustice and convincing themselves that the problem is their own shortcomings, not those of the fucked-up system itself. I really feel bad for them. It's refreshing to hear that not all Christian men actually wanted a live-in slave.

I'm happy to say that I have a marriage of equals. It's surprisingly traditional in a lot of ways, but he'd never make some unilateral decision or try to strong-arm me down a path I didn't want to go down, because, SHOCKINGLY, he respects my judgment and autonomy. Christian men say they're their wives' "servants," but I think women know deep down that this is a baldfaced and cruel lie. I know I sure did.

[blackpudd1n]

My partner is easy-going, but not submissive. If he has an issue with something, he will tell me, in no uncertain terms. He will tell me to my face when I'm being a bitch. And that's something that I like. Of course I don't always like hearing what he has to say, but he usually has a good point and good reason for saying it, so when he does speak up about something, I listen to him, and we work it out. Otherwise, if he says he really doesn't care, then he really doesn't care.

That's actually been one of the hardest lessons for me to learn about men: they say what they mean. When women talk, there's often a lot of innuendo and reading between the lines involved. But guys just say what they think. Especially my man. When I finally grasped the concept that if he said it, then he meant it, life became a hell of a lot easier lol.

[FeelHappy]

I'm usually very easy going and don't try to argue much, life's too short to worry about those things....also I believe in being very selective in arguments, pick your battles type of thinking.

[LivingLife]

Even though my dad was an xian all his life, he never once treated my mom like dirt. I think one needs to be taught how to be an asshole towards women. TBH the first I heard of this submission shit is when I attended a charismatic church with links to the US. Even then the pastor explained the love submit roles using two hands as when one submits the other loves and made it a perpetual act of love submission which boiled down to equality. The focus on the headship was more focused on getting the males to become the priests to their families and purely from the standpoint women should remain silent meme. The pastor often had his PA, a single girl stand in for him when he was away so from that perspective, women were considered pretty equal.

The church was usually sympathetic towards faithful "come alone to church" women whose husbands were backslidden or were not interested in church. Two cases I was partially involved with, the husbands got the short end of the stick.

Amongst English speaking folk, this misogynistic mindset is almost non existent but does exist with the Afrikaans males but nothing as bad as what I glean off posts here referring to the US. Perhaps this is b/c we did not have that puritan mindset to start off with. In my 30 years here in SA, only our ex back door neighbour was like this and called his wife a slut when he got wasted. We heard it as the kitchens are adjacent to each other but this probably was more a case of mental abuse. Don't think they ever attended church.

The history of cultures all tend to be "misogynistic" but add woo shit in and it just compounds it. Chivalry seems to be the evolved role where women are usually put on a pedestal.

[blackpudd1n]

I'm usually very easy going and don't try to argue much, life's too short to worry about those things....also I believe in being very selective in arguments, pick your battles type of thinking.

I think my partner is the same. Like he has an internal, "is it worth fighting over? Yes/No" mechanism lol.

[MrsRoper]

Back before I got into business for myself, I worked for a guy who would tell younger guys who worked for him who were unmarried, to go to the Latin American world to find a wife. He said American women are too upity. NO KIDDING.

He sounds like a real charmer. And kind of a dumbass, the Latin American women I know chew up men and spit them out. Even the fine ladies from Dallas have nothing on them.

[MrsRoper]

LL: My gramp was a faithful Catholic and he treated my gramma, mom & me like gold.

Also, none of the women in my family would submit to a man anyway. This is probably the main reason my mom never married again after my dad died, and fell in love with Jeebus. She has to mentally assent to the submission bullshit her church teaches, but she would never let a man rule her. You know unless he is imaginary and does whatever she tells him too - God and Jeebus are really great for that.

Jesus was my step-dad. LMAO. I'm being committed now.