12 replies to this topic

[mcdaddy]

So I'm reading a book right now about this, written by the first doctor to do an extensive study on it. I've read a lot about this before, and it's reallllly interesting to me.

First, do you believe NDEs are real components of some sort of continued consciousness/ afterlife realm, or just tripping balls out right before the curtain closes?

And what's your #1 reason for thinking that?

Kthx

[TrueFreedom]

You first.

[HereticZero]

I disbelieve that NDE is a preview of what's to come at death primarily because every culture, every religion, views death differently. I never heard of a Muslim having a NDE where he was at the gates of heaven. No one has the same NDE experience. It varies one person to another. So if NDE were true accounts, then we should all have the same experience. I had a NDE years ago, when I was a fundy, and it was not the same experience as another fundy with a NDE. So, no I do not believe NDE are a preview of what's to come. You won't know until you die.

[stryper]

I believe there is a thread about this already.

[mcdaddy]

I disbelieve that NDE is a preview of what's to come at death primarily because every culture, every religion, views death differently. I never heard of a Muslim having a NDE where he was at the gates of heaven. No one has the same NDE experience. It varies one person to another. So if NDE were true accounts, then we should all have the same experience. I had a NDE years ago, when I was a fundy, and it was not the same experience as another fundy with a NDE. So, no I do not believe NDE are a preview of what's to come. You won't know until you die.

Apparently they're not all exactly the same, but they have many similarities. Light, tunnel, loved ones, etc. and you interpret it "through" your religion....some xians see Jesus, some Muslims see Muhammad or Allah, Hindus see Krishna, etc. But all this is happening when the brain is devoid of any activity.....weird.

[mcdaddy]

You first.

Idk man. Idk.

Sounds like a Buddhist thing, with a twist of heaven, but without the judgmental Judeo-xian bullshit.

[Kaiser01]

The light happens because when your brain is lacking oxygen things turn white.

Ive had a near death experience before i think, i have sleep apnea which means i will stop breathing in my sleep. well one night i started having a dream that the whole world was being absorbed by a white light and i was running away form it all. I eventually got to the end of the road where a few of my friends were there. My friend started telling me "this is it, this is it" and he too started to absorb into the white light, as soon as it started reaching me i woke up gasping for air, not the kind of gasp that you have after a nightmare, it was a "i couldn't breathe" kinda gasp. Ive woke up feeling i was suffocating twice. the stuff runs in my family. It could of been just a dream but it was scary.

[TrailBlazer]

http://science.howst...experience4.htm

A very basic, yet informative article.

"...NDEs that include visits to Heaven or meetings with God could involve a combination of several factors. Faulty sensory input, oxygen deprivation and endorphin-induced euphoria create a surreal, though realistic, experience. When the subject recalls the encounter later, it has passed through the filter of his conscious mind. Bizarre experiences that seem unexplainable become spirit beings, other dimensions and conversations with God..."

The article also explores the spiritual aspect of NDEs, but I tend to favour the scientific

[Noumena]

I don't know, but I think this show is interesting.

http://www.biography...sode-2192052175

[Deva]

I am particularly interested in those accounts where patients in the operating room, who are demonstrably unconscious, see operating instruments and other things in the room, which they describe in detail afterwards.

And to answer the question, yes I think they are real and that consciousness survives the death of the body. I don't have a "number one reason" but a combination of persuasive evidence. Plus, I can't imagine consciousness just goes away. Can't wrap my little imagination around that one.

[Antlerman]

http://science.howst...experience4.htm

A very basic, yet informative article.

"...NDEs that include visits to Heaven or meetings with God could involve a combination of several factors. Faulty sensory input, oxygen deprivation and endorphin-induced euphoria create a surreal, though realistic, experience. When the subject recalls the encounter later, it has passed through the filter of his conscious mind. Bizarre experiences that seem unexplainable become spirit beings, other dimensions and conversations with God..."

The article also explores the spiritual aspect of NDEs, but I tend to favour the scientific

From the same article regarding the scientific approach: "Of course, this only scratches the surface of all the possible explanations for an NDE...." "And for every scientific explanation, there seem to be five NDE cases that defy it."

The thing about scientific explanations in these cases is that these really are speculations coming from a single mode of thinking. But as I've said many times, regardless of the brain function, the experiences are in fact real experiences. They are not imagined experiences, but profound, often life-changing experiences. And in this, there is great value. What they are not however, is validation of ones mythology as fact.

I had one NDE when I was 18 and it forever changed my life for the better to this very day. It was pivotal in my entire life direction. I now practice meditation and I experience very much the same thing every time I meditate; different each time, but of the same nature, the same essence. When I first started intentionally putting myself in that place through meditation practices and everything opened up into that space, I remember telling myself, "I can totally see how someone who thinks in mythic-literal terms as their framework of reality would take this as literal encounters with the gods!". Very much so. It's profound, to say the least, and it has enormous positive effects that carry over far beyond just the immediate experience. They are pathways, means to personal insight and transformation.

So what this means is not that the NDE's or these altered states are not "real", and therefore we should dismiss them in favor of some 'scientific' explanation and that's it, end of story, but rather that understanding the internal nature of these human experiences, their significance and their impact on the individual and their lives is the real question to pursue. It seems so much of this "science explains this", approach is highly misplaced. Instead of understanding it as part of our humanity, we use such approaches as a means to debunk mythic-literal thinking, therefore ironically validating in giving it credence by giving such efforts to throw out the bathwater, right along with the baby in the midst of it.

Of course it's not a literal magical realm of some afterlife of literal dimensions and features. The mind supplies these symbolically in order to put a face on the depth of the experience itself. It's the immature mind that sees these as literal, rather than symbolic. I say look into the experiences with the right tools, the mind itself in direct, firsthand experience. Then talk about it.

[oddbird1963]

I think NDE's are a product of the brain's unique chemistry at a time of severe deprevation. I believe that when people say there is no brain activity, what they mean is brain activity in terms of what they are seeking to measure. I really don't think the brain is, in fact, totally inactive in terms of the chemical interactions that are taking place.


I do believe that NDE's along with other experiences (dream's, hallucinations, etc) provide the basis for ancient spirituality - spiritualities that eventually were organized into religions. I recently read a book that described the hallucinations some ultramarathoners will have when they've been running for hours and hours and are feeling dehydrated and exhausted. I think tribal groups in prehistoric times experienced those conditions all the time while migrating during times of drought.

My point being - people try to interpret these extreme experiences. Some people interpret NDE's as a disembodied mind living on after death. But I think the most likely explanation is a person trying to make sense of what their brain was doing while in an extremely deprived state.

[Antlerman]

I do believe that NDE's along with other experiences (dream's, hallucinations, etc) provide the basis for ancient spirituality - spiritualities that eventually were organized into religions. I recently read a book that described the hallucinations some ultramarathoners will have when they've been running for hours and hours and are feeling dehydrated and exhausted. I think tribal groups in prehistoric times experienced those conditions all the time while migrating during times of drought.

I largely agree with what you say here, and it is possible migrations in time of drought had something to do with it. However, don't forget the role of the Shaman. It wasn't just everybody who had such visions. But the point is true, through many techniques these things can be produced; fasting, intense prayer, chant, drumming, etc.

It is true that religions are really about trying to follow suit behind the visionary, the mystic. Religion is really more a created form to express that mystical experience, and therefore not all people of that religion are in fact 'spiritual'. The spiritual origin transcends the religion itself. In this sense we should say to any Christian, "Jesus was never a Christian, nor would he ever practice it. Do you want to be like Christ? Than transcend Christianity."

My point being - people try to interpret these extreme experiences. Some people interpret NDE's as a disembodied mind living on after death. But I think the most likely explanation is a person trying to make sense of what their brain was doing while in an extremely deprived state.

I somewhat agree and disagree. As I said in my earlier post, someone operating on a mythic-literal mode of thinking will naturally take a subtle-level experience and translate into how he currently understands reality. It's the framework through which he translates all experiences. But at the same time, through regular practice of such experiences one may also gain sufficient insight to actually destroy these conventional modes of thought; be those mythic or rationalistic modes of thought as the norm. Instead a new reality is opened to them, and an evolutionary leap forward begins to occur, one which then takes on the form of a new religion in order to put into tangible form mystical realizations like this.

This is where you in fact see the evolution of God and religion occurring in human history. So it's not just the mind trying to explain something, it can be actual new insights into the nature of reality itself, something that requires a new understanding.