36 replies to this topic

[jensjam]

I just needed to vent about this topic and it seems fitting on last moments of the day that marks our Independence from one Tyranny YET we seem to be under the Tyranny of another-i.e. Coporations




I've seen a few articles popping up lately that NASA will be annoucing who has basically won the Space contract. Which company will be allow to basically privatize space and this news not only makes me sad but sick as well.


Yes, NASA had troubles from time to time but when the government basically stop the NASA funding and allowed Corporations to take over it has basically put an end to true discovery and wonder in this country.



When one places space up for sale for the hands of Corporations to own than we are really going down a dangerous path. What corporation is going to explore the solar system without making a profit? What is going to happen? Koch brothers trying to lay claim to the moon? We joke about Newt wanting to put a colony up on the moon but look pass the joke who is to stop someone from trying to take control of the moon to "claim the future resources"?

When a child watched the space shuttles taking off when I was younger -30+ years ago- theydidn't have to think if they would be the image for a corporation shuttle fleet. The wonder of space and exploring was formost in the mind. Children strive to do well in math and science so that they could in fact have the chance to be one of the few lucky enough to go into space.

Not that I'm a Star Trek fan but I do have friends who are fans and some seem very disharden by the idea that a private corporation will be in control of Shuttles not only that you having to be rich enough to actually go into space.

NASA's crew came from all walks of life --it seemed to me anyways. What will it say when only the rich 5% can afford to go up in space.

I fear this in a sense has and will lead to childhood dreams being destroy not to mention the exploration that may not happen at all OR the right way.

[Ouroboros]

Isn't this contract just about who will replace the Space Shuttle program and build the shuttles for NASA's continued research? There are several competitors already working on space crafts, and I don't think this specific contract is changing the fact that the other ones will continue. Btw, I thought Space-X already won this contract in April or so...? Do you have a link to the article? Just out of curiosity.

[jensjam]

Isn't this contract just about who will replace the Space Shuttle program and build the shuttles for NASA's continued research? There are several competitors already working on space crafts, and I don't think this specific contract is changing the fact that the other ones will continue. Btw, I thought Space-X already won this contract in April or so...? Do you have a link to the article? Just out of curiosity.

It is more than that. It is in a sense "Privatizing" space to the highest bidder. It would be like Thomas Jefferson buying Louisana and than charging Lewis and Clark for the "privilage" of exporing and maping the land.

here is the link: http://idealab.talki...essors-soon.php

[Ouroboros]

It is more than that. It is in a sense "Privatizing" space to the highest bidder. It would be like Thomas Jefferson buying Louisana and than charging Lewis and Clark for the "privilage" of exporing and maping the land.

here is the link: http://idealab.talki...essors-soon.php

I think you're misunderstanding what "funding" means. What this is about is who will get the contract to work for, and get paid by, NASA for the NASA programs, nothing else. There's nothing in the article about that the "losers" being forced to close their business or shut down their space projects. The losing private companies can (and most likely will) continue building and racing to space. And honestly, it's an advantage if that's done. The competition to go into space will drive progress and development much faster than before.

[jensjam]

It is more than that. It is in a sense "Privatizing" space to the highest bidder. It would be like Thomas Jefferson buying Louisana and than charging Lewis and Clark for the "privilage" of exporing and maping the land.

here is the link: http://idealab.talki...essors-soon.php

I think you're misunderstanding what "funding" means. What this is about is who will get the contract to work for, and get paid by, NASA for the NASA programs, nothing else. There's nothing in the article about that the "losers" being forced to close their business or shut down their space projects. The losing private companies can (and most likely will) continue building and racing to space. And honestly, it's an advantage if that's done. The competition to go into space will drive progress and development much faster than before.

I do understand BUT it is the idea that a private company will get this contract with NASA much like we have private miliatary contractors. I believe this is a slippery slope that NASA and the U.S. is taking.

I can see your view point about the advantage but my fear is that it is going to be something very dangerous. Look how we are the military complex had us in 3 wars at one point in the last couple of years. Yes, Obama has ended the Wars but look at the mess Bush administration caused. I worry it will not be as progressive as you believe. I worry only a select few will have the contract or contracts.

I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but I do feel this whole venture was a HUGE mistake

[Ouroboros]

I do understand BUT it is the idea that a private company will get this contract with NASA much like we have private miliatary contractors. I believe this is a slippery slope that NASA and the U.S. is taking.

Yeah, but it's not a monopoly like the military. NASA is only the government agency version of space missions. The private companies will still compete, just like private companies compete and run airlines. The airlines are not government owned or monopolized, and this is the way spacelines should fare as well.

I can see your view point about the advantage but my fear is that it is going to be something very dangerous. Look how we are the military complex had us in 3 wars at one point in the last couple of years. Yes, Obama has ended the Wars but look at the mess Bush administration caused. I worry it will not be as progressive as you believe. I worry only a select few will have the contract or contracts.

It's okay that only a few have the contracts. NASA is very cheap compared to private industry. NASA has been downsized drastically and will not be on the level as the private or public traded companies. Virgin space or Hilton might be the top contenders for public transport and stay in space. The NASA fund is only about money that comes from the taxpayers. Non-NASA companies will just compete for price tags on space-tickets.

I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but I do feel this whole venture was a HUGE mistake

It was worse before. Before corporations couldn't compete for space, now they can. Before, only NASA had the right, but it's opening up. NASA is becoming more of only a supervising/fund-giving agency.

[OpheliaGinger]

If the disasters caused by shotty work given to private contractors to build in military bases has taught us anything, I suspect that we are going to see more Challenger disasters as a result of privatization.

[Vigile]

I don't see why private corporations would produce shoddier work than NASA employees. Free market engineers have produced some of the most enduring and successful projects on the planet. It really depends on the company they give the contract to and how well it's managed.

Are you saying Boeing and Lockheed produce shitty fighter jets and cruise missiles?

I do have a problem with subsidizing corporate claims on things like lunar resources though. If they are going to profit from tax payer money, then the tax payers should get their share.

[OpheliaGinger]

It may or may not turn out as bad as I think, but I am very pessimistic about the environment in which corporations are allowed to operate (I probably sound like a Marxist).

[Chikirin]

Anyone read Ben Bova? He did a great series of fiction books on settling the moon.

[Ouroboros]

Ford, Chevrolet, and GM making worse cars than Soviet made Lada? Hmm... have to think about that.

Motorola, Apple, Microsoft making worse cell phones than ... eh, which cellphone is made by a government?

Competition in the market place pushes for a faster progress and development of products, sometimes that also means better products, but not necessarily. When government monopolize products, they move slow and the quality is most of the time not there either.

Btw, wasn't the Challenger disaster caused by NASA (government agency)? They had the oversight and supervision at least for the product. So I' m not sure how a government agency's failure points to the private markets potential failure.

[Ouroboros]

Anyone read Ben Bova? He did a great series of fiction books on settling the moon.

We have to settle the moon (an ark) before infinite power and quantum weapons are developed from the new discovery of the Higgs boson.

[Vigile]

Ford, Chevrolet, and GM making worse cars than Soviet made Lada? Hmm... have to think about that.

The new Volga Gaz is actually pretty cool.



And check out this prototype:

[Rank Stranger]

The space shuttle was largely built by private contractors. How is this different? Will private contractors also be doing the operation?

[Legion]

Alright guys, this is what I was talking about earlier.

I believe that Jensjam is under the influence. Yes. I think she has succumbed to extreme Leftist ideology.

I do believe that you guys are doing a relatively decent job of trying to bring her to her senses, k? But I don't see that it will come to much in improving her thinking.

And I don't really know what else to say.

The Right does not effectively sanction and police its fringe nutcases, and neither does the Left, in my assessment.

[Ouroboros]

I'm sure they're decent, but are they still state owned? I remember the Lada from 1980s. We used them during my military service. They had a great four-wheel drive, but the best part was that it was made out of "spare parts" , so we could fix it ourselves. It felt like a boxcar.

[Vigile]

I'm sure they're decent, but are they still state owned? I remember the Lada from 1980s. We used them during my military service. They had a great four-wheel drive, but the best part was that it was made out of "spare parts" , so we could fix it ourselves. It felt like a boxcar.

I think they still are state-owned, but not sure. Anyway, I wasn't trying to make any point here. I just thought of the new Gaz when you mentioned the Lada as they have come a long way since the old Lada Gigoli.

BTW, did you know the Lada was a Fiat knock off?

[jensjam]

The space shuttle was largely built by private contractors. How is this different? Will private contractors also be doing the operation?

Yes. They will be.

[jensjam]

Alright guys, this is what I was talking about earlier.

I believe that Jensjam is under the influence. Yes. I think she has succumbed to extreme Leftist ideology.

I do believe that you guys are doing a relatively decent job of trying to bring her to her senses, k? But I don't see that it will come to much in improving her thinking.

And I don't really know what else to say.

The Right does not effectively sanction and police its fringe nutcases, and neither does the Left, in my assessment.

Under the InFLUENCE?

YES I am a FREAKING DIRTY LIBERAL! Who happens to think that NOT EVERYTHING needs to be control by "Free Market Principles"! So when you say I am under "extreme Leftist ideology" I will take those words you threw at my feet and smashed in the dirt and I will dust them off and where them with pride!

[Ouroboros]

I think they still are state-owned, but not sure. Anyway, I wasn't trying to make any point here.

No problem.

BTW, did you know the Lada was a Fiat knock off?

Oh, that's why! I always thought it looked like the boxy Fiat.