99 replies to this topic

[Noraa]

One of the issues atheists commonly get wrong with people following God is that we're only in it for the paradise of Heaven. The following is not a criticism, its only used to clear up a misconception.

Now there may be some who follow God and act good only for the purpose of Heaven, but I assure u those people won't make it to Heaven. God knows the intwntions of our souls. He knows who is truly concerned for others and those who are only seeking a reward. When we do good for others we must actually care about that persons situation and we should also be glad when our good acts help people get out of their situation. Anyone who takes the attitude of doing good works only for Heaven and not showing any true care for another persons problems will go to hell. God wants people who are good for the sake of being good. Being good for rewards is selfish

True enough, there would be know real such thing as good and evil if there was no Heaven and Hell. But that doesn't give a person an excuse to do good just to get to Heaven. Yes, God does want us to have the desire to go to Heaven, but he also expects us to show concern for othet people as well. It is these 2 requirements which will get a person into Heaven

[Ouroboros]

One of the issues atheists commonly get wrong with people following God is that we're only in it for the paradise of Heaven.

Who are the "we" in your sentence above? Christians? Theists? Mormons? Hindus? Zoroastrians?

The following is not a criticism, its only used to clear up a misconception.

Good, because no one here were ever a Christian or a believer of any kind, so we shouldn't have any clue about anything of your religion. (sarc)

Now there may be some who follow God and act good only for the purpose of Heaven, but I assure u those people won't make it to Heaven. God knows the intwntions of our souls. He knows who is truly concerned for others and those who are only seeking a reward. When we do good for others we must actually care about that persons situation and we should also be glad when our good acts help people get out of their situation. Anyone who takes the attitude of doing good works only for Heaven and not showing any true care for another persons problems will go to hell. God wants people who are good for the sake of being good. Being good for rewards is selfish

Good. I honestly care about the people I care about, not out of any selfish rewards. That means I'm going to heaven too.

True enough, there would be know real such thing as good and evil if there was no Heaven and Hell.

There wouldn't be pasta unless the flying spaghetti monster was real.

But that doesn't give a person an excuse to do good just to get to Heaven. Yes, God does want us to have the desire to go to Heaven, but he also expects us to show concern for othet people as well. It is these 2 requirements which will get a person into Heaven

How do you know? Did you read it in a book or that's just how you feel it's supposed to be?

[3DollarBill]

Well, thank you for sharing.

Your loving theism is certainly better than the version professed by many christians. You argue for a system based on actual merit, not arbitrary rules, which is a welcome change. But you know, the biggest difference between your views and theirs, the one point which really sets your argument apart, is this:

They have more evidence than you do. I mean, yeah, it's pretty fuckin stupid to believe in an ancient book of nonsense but it IS an actual book. Your bullshit is found only in your head.

[Astreja]

One of the issues atheists commonly get wrong with people following God is that we're only in it for the paradise of Heaven.

That's a rather broad brush you're using there, Noraa. I am of the opinion that many believers worldwide do focus on going to this mythical "Heaven," because the only alternative most Christian churches offer is an eternity of hurt in the equally mythical "Hell."

Now there may be some who follow God and act good only for the purpose of Heaven, but I assure u those people won't make it to Heaven.

You "assure" us?

Heeheeheeheehee! Good one, Noraa.

And please take the time to spell out the word "you," lest you present as illiterate.

God knows the intwntions of our souls.

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god, and no evidence for souls.

Anyone who takes the attitude of doing good works only for Heaven and not showing any true care for another persons problems will go to hell.

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for Heaven and no evidence for Hell, either.

True enough, there would be know real such thing as good and evil if there was no Heaven and Hell.

Rubbish! Good and evil are actions and can be performed without reference to imaginary places of reward or punishment.

[sarahlee]

It is these 2 requirements which will get a person into Heaven

I thought the only way to heaven was through belief in Jesus. Oh wait, that's just in the bible. False alarm!

[Thurisaz]

...They have more evidence than you do. I mean, yeah, it's pretty fuckin stupid to believe in an ancient book of nonsense but it IS an actual book. Your bullshit is found only in your head.

To be fair, one could consider his words to at least be the product of some thinking instead of just following the book of bullshit by the letter.

Then again, I'm sure one can cherry-pick the "right" verses from it and claim his point of view is a literal reading of it.

Noraa, you sure sound better than the average morontheist who comes in here just to jerk off to the thought of sticking it to us; I'm afraid most of us will find your position still lacks substance, however. As long as you harm no one, it is of course your right to believe or disbelieve in whatever you want... I'd recommend though that you don't expect an easy ride "just because" you don't (yet?) preach fire'n'brimstone.

[Noraa]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

[jackbauer]

I actually believed that at one point. I believed that if I was doing good only to get points from God that it wouldn't count. The problem: at that point I had already been traumatized by the idea of hell that any concern I had for others was only based on where they spend the afterlife (pascal's wager and all). This of course led to a vicious cycle of worrying about my motives but then realizing that I was only concerned about where I (and others) spend the afterlife. After all, it's all that matters.

So no, the theology you bring up actually sounds much worse than the standard saved by grace. You can't force someone to be concerned about someone. And if you really want to, there's no need to threatening them with something as horrible as hell (or bribe them with heaven). That actually puts the focus on the reward/punishment, and not genuine compassion. If God's really gonna send someone to hell just because of something they can't help (emotions), than he is a monster worse than Lord Voldemort, Freddy Kruger, and Jason Vorhees combined.

[centauri]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

Could you clear up which version of God you believe in and where you obtain your information about it?

[mcdaddy]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

Nobody hates YOU. We hate that you perpetuate a two millennium old fairy tale that is high on illogic, obviously mythical elements and a reliance upon the shoddiest display of "proof" there is. NONE OF ITS REAL NORAA. WAKE. UP.

Youre living a DELUSION. why don't you take some time to educate yourself as to WHETHER THE BIBLE IS TRUE, instead of just guessing and going with your emotions.

These people.

No desire for knowledge of truth in them AT ALL.

[Ouroboros]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell.

No. I don't hate people. There's only a handful of people in my life that I've come to despise (or hate if you must), but you're not one of them.

But... it is completely wrong of you to assume that you can say whatever you want without people responding with their own opinions. It's not you and your opinions that count in this universe. It's not all about you.

It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

The problem with your views is that they don't have any support. You make claims without any backing. You have nothing to show for the "truth" that heaven and hell exists or that good people with good intentions go to heaven instead of hell. It's just your opinion, nothing else.

[blackpudd1n]

Oh, good grief. Nothing I love more than any single person making assumptions about what I think or feel about any particular subject.

This isn't dialogue, Noraa. This is you spouting verbal diarrhoea based on assumptions you have about a group of people whom you do not know. I'm out of here.

[sarahlee]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

Victim card. Nice choice. Too bad it doesn't seem to work around here.

[midniterider]

One of the issues atheists commonly get wrong with people following God is that we're only in it for the paradise of Heaven. The following is not a criticism, its only used to clear up a misconception.

Now there may be some who follow God and act good only for the purpose of Heaven, but I assure u those people won't make it to Heaven. God knows the intwntions of our souls. He knows who is truly concerned for others and those who are only seeking a reward. When we do good for others we must actually care about that persons situation and we should also be glad when our good acts help people get out of their situation. Anyone who takes the attitude of doing good works only for Heaven and not showing any true care for another persons problems will go to hell. God wants people who are good for the sake of being good. Being good for rewards is selfish

True enough, there would be know real such thing as good and evil if there was no Heaven and Hell. But that doesn't give a person an excuse to do good just to get to Heaven. Yes, God does want us to have the desire to go to Heaven, but he also expects us to show concern for othet people as well. It is these 2 requirements which will get a person into Heaven

Why would an atheist give a rats behind what someone's imagination says?

[midniterider]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

http://www.btinterne...kaos/karma.html

karma do not exist.

[3DollarBill]

...They have more evidence than you do. I mean, yeah, it's pretty fuckin stupid to believe in an ancient book of nonsense but it IS an actual book. Your bullshit is found only in your head.

To be fair, one could consider his words to at least be the product of some thinking instead of just following the book of bullshit by the letter.

I dunno, I think I can have a bit more respect for someone following doctrine they have been told is true over somebody who decides he doesnt like said doctrine and then makes up something else.

Noraa, why do you believe what you do?

[Thought2Much]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

Aw, you poor persecuted little thing, you.

[TrueFreedom]

Why don't I see a believer tag on Noraa? Did he lie when he created his account? Shouldn't he be locked down?

[Antlerman]

Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

I hear someone who has one realization they've come to on their own, which is a good thing. You still couch it in mythological terms such as heaven and hell, or a system of reward/punishment, but I take that as a still immature understanding on your part. What's it the Apostle Paul says, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me"?

I very much agree with you that being 'spiritual' means you have a genuine heart of compassion towards others, not driven by a rewards system - which I'll include here, heaven or hell. I've asked this question of Christians before and I'll ask it of you. If you found out there was no afterlife, no heaven or hell, no resurrection where you get to live forever in paradise, and that when you die, you cease to exist... would you still embrace God in your faith? Would you still follow love for love's sake, even if all there was in this life for you was to simply give that to others, then die into forgetfulness, forever? Where does your heart truly lay?

To me, how you answer this will underscore that you truly sense that this rewards/punishment system designed for children is besides the real point, and that love for love's sake is in fact its own true reward. How do you answer?