msipsy218 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 HI! I'm Michelle. I've been lurking around for a few weeks now, but I recently registered with the site and this is my first post. Long story short, I was super involved in the church (southern baptist) for close to 4 years. At one point my husband and I were youth leaders. I left the church about 8 months ago but just formally renounced my faith recently. I told close friends and family first, a few months ago, and that was fine, but I decided I should make a facebook announcement earlier this week. I'm still friends with a lot of xtians and I thought they should all know. Now that it's done, I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but hindsight is 20/20, right? Anyways, now I'm getting a lot of responses that I don't really know what to do with. Thankfully many of my friends have responded with "That's ok, this changes nothing." and even "I'll be praying for you." isn't too bad, since I know they mean well....but I've had a few messages that were unsettling, like one from a church elder asking if I would allow him and the pastor to come to our house and meet with us.... No. But I'm not sure how to say no. My husband has got some interesting responses as well. Your basic "control your woman" stuff, for the most part (he is still xtian). I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement and a community Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwinfish Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome to the site. Congrats on listening to your reason. After so many stories about former Christians hiding their disbelief, I'm surprised to hear that you readily told everyone you know that your now on the other side of the equation. You must have a really great husband. I would encourage you to talk to the pastor that wants to meet with you. I can only rely on my own experience, but I assume that you stopped believing for good reasons. Most likely, the lack of evidence, or conflicts with science. I'm only guessing. Instead of allowing the pastor to push you into a position where you have to defend your disbelief, keep the burden of proof on the one making the positive claim. When he (or anyone else for that matter) asks why you don't belief, ask him what are the reasons that you should believe. When he presents the arguments that, I'm sure your familiar with, you'll have an opportunity to explain why those arguments aren't convincing to you anymore. One thing that really helped me was to write out what actually happened to me that caused me to question, and ultimately leave the faith. I wrote out my experience and showed it to my wife, friends, and former pastor. Now, I feel like I've laid out my explanation as best as I can. This has been more productive than rehashing the same conversation with each and every person I know. Maybe you've done that in your Facebook announcement. But, if not, then you might consider it. It sounds like your off to a great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msipsy218 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thank you. I do have a great husband. When we met I was atheist, so he wasn't real surprised when I came back around to it. My main concern with meeting with the pastor and deacon is that I'm a real people pleaser. I hate saying no, I hate confrontation (at least real life confrontation) and I hate to let people down. I don't want to be bullied back into this ridiculous cult with fear tactics and guilt trips. I do know I have my husband's support though, so I will continue to consider it. Though, I still don't see any real reason to. I have considered writing it all down, and tried to a time or two, but I've not been able to really put it all together yet. Like I said, I used to be an atheist, and bottom ine was the xtians took advantage of me when I was in a very vulnerable place and convinced me that all I really needed was god. They managed to keep me there for a few years but when I stopped working for five minutes and really started to think for myself again I knew that it was all bullshit. Makes me wonder how I could have been such an asshole for so long. Anyways, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome, msipsy! It doesn't seem to me that you are under any obligation to meet with the pastor and elder, although I can imagine that they make your husband feel that he is in a compromised position if his wife is not a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellwood Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome msipsy. Great story. Just a quick thought. So often it is the folks who get PAID as a result of their Christianity who want to "meet" with us. Hhhmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellwood Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Sorry msipsy. Didn't mean to misspell your name. My iPad wanted to do that. I corrected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 HI! I'm Michelle. I've been lurking around for a few weeks now, but I recently registered with the site and this is my first post. Long story short, I was super involved in the church (southern baptist) for close to 4 years. At one point my husband and I were youth leaders. I left the church about 8 months ago but just formally renounced my faith recently. I told close friends and family first, a few months ago, and that was fine, but I decided I should make a facebook announcement earlier this week. I'm still friends with a lot of xtians and I thought they should all know. Now that it's done, I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but hindsight is 20/20, right? Anyways, now I'm getting a lot of responses that I don't really know what to do with. Thankfully many of my friends have responded with "That's ok, this changes nothing." and even "I'll be praying for you." isn't too bad, since I know they mean well....but I've had a few messages that were unsettling, like one from a church elder asking if I would allow him and the pastor to come to our house and meet with us.... No. But I'm not sure how to say no. My husband has got some interesting responses as well. Your basic "control your woman" stuff, for the most part (he is still xtian). I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement and a community Thanks! I'd say no to the elder and the pastor coming together. Maybe one at a time, but with two, they're trying to gang up on you. Just tell them you aren't going to discuss it. And then don't. If you do end up in a discussion with them, listen to what they have to say, and then ask them if they're finished. Then say say "thank you for your time" and show them the door. Don't engage them....it isn't their business or their problem what you believe (well, it might end up bring their problem, if others in your church see your exit and agree with you...) and there is no reason that you should discuss it with them. You don't believe any of it because none of it is true. And that's that. Welcome!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Nope they will double team you. And welcome (back) to reality. All the best to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellwood Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I had a sit down chat with my "former" pastor. We had been fairly close since I had been the "production director" for this church. The church is a non-denominational type that was of the seeker sensitive type,. So, during our chat he was very "sensitive" with me. So sensitive that he admitting he often struggled with his faith, is not sure that jesus is the only way, and he is not sure about promoting the born again moment as being essential - which indeed he never does. I got the feeling he wasn't too far behind me! BUT he has a fairly large 500 person church, and growing, to balance that "search" off with. I was never interested in modifying my christianity to fit truth as I came to see it like I think he was doing. I wanted to pursue truth to a more final place - if there ever is one. And wherever that is now - it is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I strongly agree that you shouldn't do a meeting with the pastor and elder. Not only will they gang up on you, but they will likely take what you've told them and spin it however way they want, probably use it as fodder for a sermon or a blog post about the poor lost apostate whom they had a God given divine appointment to minister to. Any information or reasoning you give them will be recycled into their own propaganda machine. It might sound like I'm being paranoid here, but I don't think so. Don't give them anything. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome msipsy! You will definitely find encouragement here. Recently, through this site, I discovered some YouTube videos from Evid3nc3 where he walks through his deconversion and discoveries as a new atheist. I found them very helpful and recommend them if you have time or interest. If you don't want to meet with the church people, don't. You don't owe them anything. Obviously they will be trying to convince you to come back to the fold and it will just be a pointless, uncomfortable conversation. I suspect you have better things to do with your time. Good luck & hope to hear more from you soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Anyways, now I'm getting a lot of responses that I don't really know what to do with. Thankfully many of my friends have responded with "That's ok, this changes nothing." and even "I'll be praying for you." isn't too bad, since I know they mean well....but I've had a few messages that were unsettling, like one from a church elder asking if I would allow him and the pastor to come to our house and meet with us.... No. But I'm not sure how to say no. Welcome to ex-C! For the right way to answer start polite by saying something nice and then be very assertive so they get a clear message. "That is very kind but no thank you. There really is no point to talking about it so let's not waste time on that." Or make up something like that. Glad to hear from you. Feel free to rant about any of the crazy things going on around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 You could always set up a google hangout or do a party call on skype or something and get some of the people here or other sympathetic friends to listen in and make remarks in your defense. Everybody needs an advocate. Realize you are going into deliberation with 'hostile' parties. And yes, everyone is a "people pleaser" at first. It is a natural human instinct. But when you have been around long enough to see how often and routinely your kind and loving disposition gets turned against you, you'll be more careful. Best of luck to you. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome, Michelle. Yah, the elders. If you want to be polite you can say, 'no thanks, but I appreciate your concern.' Just don't argue with them. It's a bottomless thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thank you. I do have a great husband. When we met I was atheist, so he wasn't real surprised when I came back around to it. I find it fascinating that you went from being an atheist to becoming a believer and then going back to being an atheist. I think this is an excellent example of someone using critical thinking skills to work all of this out. My compliments. I don't think you left the faith as much as you left the cult which is exactly what christians are part of. I discovered this for myself a while back and some my friends over here pretty much confirmed it with various comments they've shared. I think the one thing you'll find over here, and it is very ironic, is that you will see the REAL agape love that the church only preaches about but NEVER shows. An example of this had to do with a christian (whom I won't identify) who was pretty ugly at times with people over here. And then he went through some very tough times, shared it with people here, and found all of them without exception opening up their arms to him with no strings attached. I'm still amazed about this myself. So welcome aboard and enjoy and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I told close friends and family first, a few months ago, and that was fine, but I decided I should make a facebook announcement earlier this week. I'm still friends with a lot of xtians and I thought they should all know. Now that it's done, I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but hindsight is 20/20, right? Anyways, now I'm getting a lot of responses that I don't really know what to do with. Thankfully many of my friends have responded with "That's ok, this changes nothing." and even "I'll be praying for you." isn't too bad, since I know they mean well....but I've had a few messages that were unsettling, like one from a church elder asking if I would allow him and the pastor to come to our house and meet with us.... No. But I'm not sure how to say no. My husband has got some interesting responses as well. Your basic "control your woman" stuff, for the most part (he is still xtian). I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement and a community Thanks! Welcome. I have affectionately named this deconversion stage the Paul Revere phenomenon. It is that stage where the newly born nonreligious person wants to share their epiphany with the world and especially their unenlightened friends. This is an apparently normal stage and it seems virtually everyone goes through it. I think it is motivated by wanting to be honest. Maybe it’s something similar to a gay person coming out of the closet. You just want to be who you are and not pretend to be something you aren’t, but there are consequences. Your post indicates you are in the consequences stage now. That will pass but it takes time and it often presents some unique challenges. Some of these challenges can prove to be emotionally trying and even painful, but I doubt that this stage can be skipped it seems to be a necessary part of the process. Terminating your prior Christian relationship usually happens naturally. When they accept you aren't one of them anymore they tend to go their own way. I was a born again fundamentalist Christian for 40+ years. I was a member of the Church of Christ so I was disfellowshipped when I didn't repent and return to the fold. I eventually realized those folks never were really my friends. We just went to the same church and when we didn't we weren't friends anymore. It is a difficult stage but it will pass. I think you will find this community helpful. Again, welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 My main concern with meeting with the pastor and deacon is that I'm a real people pleaser. I hate saying no, I hate confrontation (at least real life confrontation) and I hate to let people down. I don't want to be bullied back into this ridiculous cult with fear tactics and guilt trips. Then keep it all to email. Email them and say, "Thank you, but no. I do not wish to meet." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted November 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hi msipsy! It's difficult at times, but I find it best to steer clear of religious discussions with Christians. If a church leader wishes to discuss something that you don't want to talk about an, "I understand why you are worried about me, and I appreciate the concern, but no, thank you," should suffice. With friends and family I might say that we all have different beliefs and that I prefer to discuss less divisive topics. If they seem to be genuinely interested in my perspective I'll share with them but most people seem more interested in "witnessing." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I agree with the others. Only meet with the elders if you want to re-open that can of worms. Just remember that they are salesmen who want you to come back and that they do not have the answers you need. Might be safest to say, "Thank you for your concern. I do not wish to meet. I look back on my time at [name of church] with fondness and take away many good times, memories and friends. I may come back if circumstances change. However, this is not where I'm at currently. Take care." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atkegar Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I agree with the others. Only meet with the elders if you want to re-open that can of worms. Just remember that they are salesmen who want you to come back and that they do not have the answers you need. Might be safest to say, "Thank you for your concern. I do not wish to meet. I look back on my time at [name of church] with fondness and take away many good times, memories and friends. I may come back if circumstances change. However, this is not where I'm at currently. Take care." I agree with you 100% Positivist. The only communication I would do (if that), might be a formal letter to resign my membership in the congregation (of course that is where I am at right now. Not sure if I should resign my membership where it is). Msipsy218, is this proposed meeting in your home, or at the Church? Either way, I would say "thanks but no thanks", but even less so if it were in my home. Just my 2 cents though. Each need to do their own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msipsy218 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thank you everyone! I'm so glad to have a support system through this. It's been more emotional than I expected. Welcome, msipsy! It doesn't seem to me that you are under any obligation to meet with the pastor and elder, although I can imagine that they make your husband feel that he is in a compromised position if his wife is not a believer. Thankfully my husband doesn't give two shits what they think about him or me. He is still a believer but he is a lot less evangelical than he was when I started this journey close to a year ago and I am hopeful that he is close to renouncing his faith as well. As a matter-of-fact, the way some of our former church friends have behaved may be the thing that tips the scale for him. Either way, he won't be bullied by them either. And yes, everyone is a "people pleaser" at first. It is a natural human instinct. But when you have been around long enough to see how often and routinely your kind and loving disposition gets turned against you, you'll be more careful. I can see myself already being more careful. Another symptom of my deconversion has been realizing how much they used me. I never said no. I spent 4 years of my life giving them everything I had and never asking questions. It's no wonder I nearly lost my damn mind. Welcome. I have affectionately named this deconversion stage the Paul Revere phenomenon. It is that stage where the newly born nonreligious person wants to share their epiphany with the world and especially their unenlightened friends. This is an apparently normal stage and it seems virtually everyone goes through it. I think it is motivated by wanting to be honest. Maybe it’s something similar to a gay person coming out of the closet. You just want to be who you are and not pretend to be something you aren’t, but there are consequences. Your post indicates you are in the consequences stage now. That will pass but it takes time and it often presents some unique challenges. Some of these challenges can prove to be emotionally trying and even painful, but I doubt that this stage can be skipped it seems to be a necessary part of the process. The gay person comparison is right on. I'm tired of pretending. Of feeling like I'm two different people in front of two different groups. I just want to be me. It felt like the natural thing to do, but I didn't anticipate the waves it would cause. Msipsy218, is this proposed meeting in your home, or at the Church? Either way, I would say "thanks but no thanks", but even less so if it were in my home. At our home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hi, msipsy218, and welcome to ExC. It is interesting that you went from atheist to Christian to ExChristian. I think that your former atheism gave you a leg up on most people on here, including me, who were born into the religion. I'm glad you began as a non-believer because it gave you a good foundation to again return to reality. I wholeheartedly agree with those who advised you not to meet with the elder and pastor unless it is something you want to do. You have nothing to prove to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 msipsy281, Welcome! I'm glad you have allowed yourself to be YOU, to be free! That is something that xiantiy can not & does not offer because they want you to empty your mind & then they will try to fill it with all of their convoluted ideas. So, you should give yourself a pat on the back for being HONEST. Honesty is something I never found in xianity. As others have said & I agree with them, do not get together w/ that pastor & deacon. Their job is to "convert" people to their religion. Don't heap more abuse on yourself by getting together with them. A little about me, while in the process of leaving the church the pastor wanted to come over w/ a core lady in the church....I knew their job was to make me feel horrible, sinful & disgraced for "doubting". They use that verse about "2 or more witnesses to rebuke..." I knew it was going to be abusive & told them to don't bother coming over. I'm so so glad that I did because I was very emotional & could have been persuaded to give the church another chance. Do yourself a favor & keep your distance, you don't need the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msipsy218 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 This is what I sent back "Thank you for your concern ***** and I'm sorry if I have disappointed you, but I am not interested in meeting with anyone from the church at this point. I have nothing but fond memories of my time at ***** and the people I met there and I will certainly reach out to you and (the pastor) if circumstances change, but at this point I do not feel that a meeting would be beneficial to anyone. Thank you for understanding." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edie Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This is what I sent back "Thank you for your concern ***** and I'm sorry if I have disappointed you, but I am not interested in meeting with anyone from the church at this point. I have nothing but fond memories of my time at ***** and the people I met there and I will certainly reach out to you and (the pastor) if circumstances change, but at this point I do not feel that a meeting would be beneficial to anyone. Thank you for understanding." Absolutely perfect! Short and to the point, but tactful aswell. Welcome to the forum. You will certainly get support here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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