EdwardAbbey Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I heard this brilliant question by Dan Barker the former preacher/fundamentalist Christian evangelist who became an atheist: Dear Christian: What could be said about Christianity which, if true, would make it false? He went on to say: "if you (the Christian) can't answer that question, then your conclusions may be based on something other than honesty. You cannot exect me to respectfully listen to you if you are closed to a full, honest inquiry - if you are unwilling to allow, theoretically, that you might be wrong". He went on to say: "I am open minded and willing to change my position, if warrented." Can you also be fair enough to follow the facts, wherever they may lead? Are you willing to do that Mr/Ms Christian? if Christianity is proven to be nothing more than the myth that it is are you willing to forsake those beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Ok, I must be really stupid... what is the answer to that question that Dan Barker intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "Christianity is False" If True, would make Christianity False Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I think what he's saying is that you should be able to come up with a scenario in which Christianity would be false. Such as "Jesus never really existed". If that were true, then of course Christianity would be false. So a Christian would have to admit that if Jesus didn't really exist, then Christianity is false. Many cannot even entertain such a possibility, and thus are cut off from examining their beliefs. I could be missing his point, but I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Hmmmmm........ You can't prove it's false! Because it is the TRUTH!</daniel> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I don't think it would really matter for a lot of christians. If some incontrovertible evidence came to light exposing christianity, many many christians would just sink deeper into their mindless faith. And, they would find some ridiculous solution to reason away the evidence, such as the "devil planted the dinosaur bones" argument. The bible plants the meme deep. The idea that the only thing trustworthy in the world is the WORD OF GOD. Job 13:15 "Though He slay me, yet will I hope in Him; I will surely defend my ways to His face." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 My understanding has always been that faith is belief IN-SPITE of the evidence. I don't think you can falsify faith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I heard this brilliant question by Dan Barker the former preacher/fundamentalist Christian evangelist who became an atheist: Dear Christian: What could be said about Christianity which, if true, would make it false? He went on to say: "if you (the Christian) can't answer that question, then your conclusions may be based on something other than honesty. You cannot exect me to respectfully listen to you if you are closed to a full, honest inquiry - if you are unwilling to allow, theoretically, that you might be wrong". I think this question is only pertinent to fundamentalist Christians who do base their beliefs on supposedly factual stories. To most other Christians, this question does not pertain, nor is it reasonable to say they are being "dishonest". Adoption of religious mythologies is usually motivated for many reasons that have nothing to do with "The Truth". Could someone putting up an image of Santa Clause at Christmas time be said to believe in a lie? Is Santa a real person to them? Of course not, but "dishonesty" being assigned to them on their part is an apples and oranges sort of thing. It’s not about “the truth” to them; it’s about symbols and culture. Nothing more. But his point is well stated, when speaking of your hard core fundi types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 I think what he's saying is that you should be able to come up with a scenario in which Christianity would be false. Such as "Jesus never really existed". If that were true, then of course Christianity would be false. So a Christian would have to admit that if Jesus didn't really exist, then Christianity is false. Many cannot even entertain such a possibility, and thus are cut off from examining their beliefs. I could be missing his point, but I don't think so. I think you pretty much nailed it. Not only the alleged existence of Jesus but other major doctrines that could be proved false also. Original sin or just the idea of sin in general, the Trinity, the virgin birth, corpses resurrecting to life, miracles and a number of other events in the bible that can be proven false and impossible. It took me a while to understand his question also but the first thing I thought about was the resurrection and the virgin birth. Those things do not happen in real life and neither do the miracles described in the bible. They are all part of the story of Christianity that causes it to be nothing more than a fable and a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Actually, after re-reading my response, I should clarify-- or at least add this. . . I think the question is aimed at Christians who say "no matter what evidence is presented, I will never change my mind". So if they can't come up with ANY scenario that could prove to them Christianity is false, they are too bound and blind to reason with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I think what he's saying is that you should be able to come up with a scenario in which Christianity would be false. Such as "Jesus never really existed". If that were true, then of course Christianity would be false. So a Christian would have to admit that if Jesus didn't really exist, then Christianity is false. Many cannot even entertain such a possibility, and thus are cut off from examining their beliefs. I could be missing his point, but I don't think so. I think you pretty much nailed it. Not only the alleged existence of Jesus but other major doctrines that could be proved false also. Original sin or just the idea of sin in general, the Trinity, the virgin birth, corpses resurrecting to life, miracles and a number of other events in the bible that can be proven false and impossible. It took me a while to understand his question also but the first thing I thought about was the resurrection and the virgin birth. Those things do not happen in real life and neither do the miracles described in the bible. They are all part of the story of Christianity that causes it to be nothing more than a fable and a myth. Indeed, I think that understanding these things would prove the 'commercialized' version of Christianity wrong but I don't think it would do anything to what it was to the Gnostics. Conversely, I would think it would prove this version true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 if Christianity is proven to be nothing more than the myth that it is are you willing to forsake those beliefs? THIS will never ever happen because like you have stated: "In order to become a Christian all one must do is to remove reason." Human reasons that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoverme Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 yes pug, your god given human reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Pug, I think you should probaly correct that to all thought. If you can't even entertain the notion that something unprovable could be false...no, instead it is being too afraid, too cowardly to even consider the notion. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 if Christianity is proven to be nothing more than the myth that it is are you willing to forsake those beliefs? THIS will never ever happen because like you have stated: "In order to become a Christian all one must do is to remove reason." Human reasons that is... Is there any higher judge of truth than reason? How can an imaginary God have the same feelings humans have? A God cannot do that. Therefore, human reason is all we have. Faith is the suspension of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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