45 replies to this topic

[Eban73]

I've been thinking about dating and religion. Well, to start, let's ask all the non married single men about their dating life.

 

1.Does the fact that you're an Ex-Christian or Atheist affect your dating potential? 

 

2.Do/did the women you meet or date/dated know about your de-conversion? Did you tell her, or did she find out through other means? (e.g family, friends, facebook, etc)

 

3.If you answered yes to question 2, how did she react?  Did any of the women leave you or try and convert you when they found out?

 

[Ravenstar]

 Well.. I'm female, but yes it affects it. I have very strong feelings about religion, especially xtianity so I'm not interested in dating someone who believes it. Cultural christians are different though.. they don't really believe it themselves and it isn't a part of their daily life - I can ignore that.

 

I believe in honesty in relationships... I'm very upfront about my positions - because they aren't like say, my taste in music, they are at the core of my being - it's a big part of who I am. If I can't be totally myself in a relationship and be accepted then what's the point of having one?

 

I'm sure I've been 'rejected' on the basis of my spirituality, or lack of it but have never actually had someone say that to me.

 

At the moment I'm not dating - but when I do I'm sure it will come up.

[Jose]

I'm no longer single, but I'm technically a newlywed, so I think these are still fresh enough in my mind to respond.

 

1.Does the fact that you're an Ex-Christian or Atheist affect your dating potential? 

 

Absolutely. Not from their perspective, but from mine. I would not date a fundamentalist or fanatic of any stripe. I went on several dates before my now-wife and I started dating seriously and outspoken religious talk was a dealbreaker for me.

 

I can remember one conversation I had quite clearly. This woman was a knockout... blonde hair, green eyes, perfect skin, HUGE tracts of land on top of a tiny waist, was very well-to-do, and was the manager at my favorite pub. When she told me that she believe the Genesis story was literally true I told her, "I don't think we should see each other anymore." She was very confused and asked me what I believed about the beginnings of the universe, I told her, and she said, "Well, the bible is the word of god and that's just what some stupid scientists are saying. Who are you going to believe? You should come to my church tomorrow!"

 

I said, "I'll be right back." and I went to find our waiter. I paid for the meal, gave him a 20% tip, another $20 to bring her a cocktail with my apologies, and then I left.  

 

As ditch-a-dates go, mine are pretty classy...

 

 

2.Do/did the women you meet or date/dated know about your de-conversion? Did you tell her, or did she find out through other means? (e.g family, friends, facebook, etc)

 

Several of the women I went on dates with knew me very well and some didn't. Generally the ones that didn't found out quickly that religiousity is a dealbreaker for me. I would basically ask them about their beliefs, listen quietly, and when they reciprocated I would give them the story of my deconversion. If their eyes glazed over, I knew religion wasn't a big deal for them. If they argued with me, I knew it wasn't a good fit and would take my leave.  

 

When my wife and I started dating, we already had quite a bit of history. In fact, the first time I spoke with her, some eight years previous to dating her, we got in a huge argument about religion because she had the wrong idea about what atheists believed. At the time, she was dating a Satanist who identified as an atheist (less flak), so she thought everyone who was an atheist was a LaVeyan satanist. I corrected her and then bashed her wishy-washy, feel-good, never-thought-about-it christianity and an argument ensued. It was a while before we spoke again.

 

But yes, she knew I was an atheist before we ever started dating. Atheism is a big part of my life and I think it's important to be honest from the get-go about things that have the potential for conflict.

 

 

 

3.If you answered yes to question 2, how did she react?  Did any of the women leave you or try and convert you when they found out?

 

A couple tried to convert me. I respond to conversion attempts on what I refer to as the "Dick Mode" scale.

 

"I respect other people's beliefs, or lack of beliefs, but I really think that my religion has the right answers because of a, b, and c." - Regular conversation.

 

"You should come by my church. We're discussing this exact topic!" - Disinterest Mode: Engage

 

"You should come by my church." (second request) - Dick Mode: ENGAGE SNARK

 

"You should come by my church." (every request after the second) - Dick Mode: ENGAGE CRUEL SARCASM

 

"But, if you don't believe this, you're going to hell!" - Dick Mode: ENGAGE CRUEL SARCASM, LEVEL 2

"I know where I'm spending my eternity. I'd like to see you there." - Dick Mode: ENGAGE CRUEL SARCASM, LEVEL 3

 

"You're not really an atheist, you know there's a god, you just want to sin!" - Super Dick Mode: ENGAGE

 

Regarding my wife though, after the major argument at our first meeting, we started discussing "safe" topics. Several years of friendship later, I was starting my life over with $400 and an overnight bag of clothes and she was very supportive. After things settled down a bit, we started dating and had the conversation all over again because I wanted to make sure that her theism wasn't going to be a sticking point, because I did have feelings for her.

[Eban73]

Interesting. I already know that my dating pool will pretty much be affected by the fact that I've let go of Christianity and Islam. I've heard plenty of women who say that they're looking for a "Christian man", "Godly man" or a man who believes in god and I've always thought to myself "is that is the only qualification that women are looking for these days? In particular black women. Being a black man, I don't understand why black women seem to think belief in god automatically equals a good man. 

 

If that is the case, then it's a wonder why so many of them involve themselves with thugs, hoodlums and jailbirds. It seems to me that you can commit even the most heinous of acts including murder, drug dealing and adultery, and theft  as long as you say Jesus, forgive me! And say AMEN!! You can get away with anything.  

[Jose]

I think it's interesting that all of the black people I've discussed religion with after my deconversion seem to be very hung up on "godliness" and everything being "blessings" or "miracles."

 

For example, I was at the bus stop on Friday and a black woman asked me for a cigarette, I went into my pack to give her one, and she said, "Thank you, Jesus!"

 

I stopped immediately, didn't pull out the cigarette and said, "My name is Jose."

 

She said, "Well, I'm just really on the edge today and I think it's a miracle that you are here at the bus stop when I really need a cigarette. I'm very blessed that you were here. That's why I was thanking Jesus!"

 

I said, "Actually, I catch this bus every day. I'm always at this bus stop at this time. I've been smoking for twenty years and I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've ever told someone they couldn't have a cigarette in that time. It's not a miracle, Jesus has nothing to do with it, and I resent the implication that I am some kind of bullshit blessing instead of a person who works hard every week and dedicates a certain amount of that income each month to purchasing a product that I am generally more than willing to share. So unfortunately, you get to be number six." and I put my cigarettes away without giving her one.

She was pretty butthurt and got angry, but really, it was like listening to a little kid having a tantrum. I used to manage a music store, so I can tune out just about anything except Stairway to Heaven.

 

So, here's a lady who doesn't have a car, is in poor health with a terrible addiction (she rode the bus for free because of a disability), who can't afford the addiction she continues to indulge, and is somehow the object of miracles, Jesus' love, and "blessed."

 

I fucking hate that word the way christians use it...

 

 inigo.jpg   15.09K   10 downloads

 

 

 

 

I've never had a good conversation with a black person about religion. I get the feeling that they feel they'll be "letting the side down" if they admit that I am making even the tiniest amount of sense. For whatever reason, all the black people I've ever discussed religion with seem to be more fear-based in their faith than anything else. I don't know why, but it's obviously cultural because I talk to a LOT of people about religion and I've never gotten any of the below phrases from a white or latino person:

"Jesus is hoping you'll do right, but ready if you do wrong."

"Death is a small price to pay if you die in the lord."

 

"You are hellbound and trying to drag others down on your way."

 

"I will never question Jesus!"

 

"Doubts all lead to the same place!"

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - It looks more racist to me now, but whatever. There ya go. 

Edited by Jose, 09 January 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[SquareOne]

That sounds pretty racist to me, Jose.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure you'll explain to me why.

 

You seem to be applying a stereotype of which I have zero experience.

Edited by SquareOne, 08 January 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[Eban73]

No, what Jose said is sadly true. Jesus gets all the praise and the devil, alongside being "in sin" for every problem black folks have. 

 

I've seen many a diabetes ridden man and woman praise the lord and all of his apparent blessings, including having both legs amputated. I've overheard many a person who either was involved in gangs,drugs,or even prostitution talk about how god told them this and that, and how god was testing them. Often times, I wonder if they're just using that as a means to not accept responsibility for the things they've done or the people they have hurt.

 

I can respect a person who takes responsibility for what they've done.  However, when you start trying to use god or Allah to excuse your behavior, that's when I lose respect for that person, because it tells me that they're not willing to take responsibility for their actions. Another thing I've noticed over the years is that the believe people who praise Jesus and worship god the most tend to be the most miserable, I guess as long as long you believe in god, the bible and Jesus, you can get away with almost anything and never take responsibility for what you've done or continue to do.

 

 And then there's always the always condescending "I'll pray for you". It sounds as if someone wants to place a curse upon you in the name of Jesus. I tend to wonder just how long they can keep praying to God hoping for a quick fix to their problems when they can sometimes solve them all own their own.

 

It's a sad cycle. but I do think that my generation and the current generation of teens and new 20 somethings can finally end the cycle of fast food, liquor, Allah, gangs, incarceration, teen pregnancy  and Jesus. 

 

My mother goes to an average of about 5-7 funerals by every year and brings home the program. I am sometimes taken aback by the fact the person didn't even reach their late 40s before they died. It's a sad cycle that again, I hope will end when people start thinking about the decisions they make,the people they affect, and simply for their own well being. 

[Thurisaz]

I'm for some reason totally unable to get the dating game to work for me but well...

 

...since my deconversion from lukewarm ebil librul™ German mainstream protestantism I got with exactly one woman, who now is my wife, and she's openly pagan (Celtic druidism) anyway

[Endemoniada]

My answers are:

 

1. Yes. There is no way in Hel that I would date a fundamentalist of any kind. I don't think I could even date a liberal but serious religious person. I could, however, date someone who is Deist or who's religion is only cultural, as Ravenstar mentioned.

 

2. The person I've most recently asked on a date probably knows I don't believe in god due to a facebook post or two I made and conversations we've had. Then there's the obvious fact that I don't go to any religious meetings, assuming she's actually Christian like her facebook says and hasn't seen me there. She doesn't know I've de-converted.

 

3. I don't think it'll be a problem.

Edited by Endemoniada, 09 January 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[JadedAtheist]

I've been thinking about dating and religion. Well, to start, let's ask all the non married single men about their dating life.

 

1.Does the fact that you're an Ex-Christian or Atheist affect your dating potential? 

 

2.Do/did the women you meet or date/dated know about your de-conversion? Did you tell her, or did she find out through other means? (e.g family, friends, facebook, etc)

 

3.If you answered yes to question 2, how did she react?  Did any of the women leave you or try and convert you when they found out?

1. Yes, probably more to do with me being picky or the other way around. Even someone mildly religious is a cause of concern. Who knows when they might lapse into a more overt form of religion?

 

2. I told the last person I dated early on that I was an atheist.

 

3. She was shocked but didn't mind. She was mildly religious, and that's one of the reasons I didn't continue the relationship (not the main reason, but one of them).

 

In the end, it's you that's in control of where the relationship goes as Jose pointed out. As soon as you know where you both stand, make the call. Don't stay with anyone just because you're desperate or feel like you won't find anyone else. Better to live happily alone than miserably in company.

[SquareOne]

Eban73, just because you think a stereotype is true, does not make it acceptable to repeat as true.  What you have said is racist, and I will not abide racism without calling it out for what it is.

[Vigile]

If I were single, I wouldn't even consider starting a serious relationship with a christian cultural or otherwise.  It has nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with the fact that I wouldn't want to be in a serious relationship with anyone that I couldn't have heart-to-heart discussions with and have taboo topics that I wasn't allowed to express my true opinions about for fear of hurt feelings or other negative emotions. 

 

Just dating, oth.  Meh.  I'd shag the pastor's daughter.  

[Jose]

That sounds pretty racist to me, Jose.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure you'll explain to me why.

 

You seem to be applying a stereotype of which I have zero experience.

 

 

It's probably a US thing, SquareOne. Especially considering how traditionally conservative the states that Eban and I are from.

I think the conversation shouldn't necessarily be about, "is this racist?" but about the differences in culture between a group of people who share the common heritage of slavery in the United States and a group of people who emigrated from their country of origin to the United Kingdom for whatever reason, but generally on a voluntary basis.

 

Although Britain was a leader in the Atlantic slave trade, most African slaves purchased or captured by the British were sent on to the Americas, rather than being kept by the British, so there is minimal history of racial slavery in the UK. Compare that to a country (the United States) who only purchased African slaves and kept them separate from the prevailing culture until... well, very, very recently (legally in the 1960's, in practice until 1995 or so where I live in Florida).

 

So you have a group of black Americans with a shared experience and geography, of course there will be stereotypes. After all, stereotypes exist for a reason. You could easily stereotype people from New Orleans as fat drinkers who cook for fun and like live music. Most of my friends from New Orleans fit that stereotype... as do I. A stereotype isn't in itself racist, or even wrong. If anything, I suffer from culture bias, not racism.

 

I do have to chuckle though that a latino guy and a black guy are being called out for racism.

[SquareOne]

In my view it is always wrong to make a sweeping generalisation, without caveat, about a whole class of people.  Particularly when that class of people contains billions of members.  For example: "I think it's interesting that black people in particular seem to be very hung up" and "black people seem to be more fear-based in their religion than anything else"

 

For me, that is an absolute generalisation, and I find it offensive.

 

It is also a demonstrably false generalisation, because you can find black people who do not behave in the way you described.  The President, for example.

 

If you had qualified your statement by saying "what appears to be a majority of black people in this particular area are religious in this way"; and further qualified it by saying "and this is not necessarily exclusive to these particular people" then that would have been less generalised and not racist in my view.

 

 

 

 

I do have to chuckle though that a latino guy and a black guy are being called out for racism.

 

Your own race identity is neither here nor there on this issue.

[SquareOne]

I'm not looking for a big argument, by the way, I just feel very strongly on this issue and have a zero tolerance approach.

[Jose]

Just mentally insert, "that I've spoken to" after every time you see "black people" in my post then. Problem solved.

[Jose]

I'm not looking for a big argument, by the way, I just feel very strongly on this issue and have a zero tolerance approach.

 

Glad I didn't end that other post how I was originally going to: "I do have to chuckle though that a latino guy and a black guy are being called out for racism by a limey."

[SquareOne]

Not quite sure what a limey is, to be perfectly honest.

[Jose]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limey

[Eban73]

Eban73, just because you think a stereotype is true, does not make it acceptable to repeat as true. What you have said is racist, and I will not abide racism without calling it out for what it is.

 

No, this isn't anything I think, this is just over 2 decades worth of experience. It isn't racist to understand something that has been mentally embedded to a group for over a century.