Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Relationship Questions For Everyone..


Eban73

Recommended Posts

I didn't say that it was racist to make observations about a group.  I said that it was racist to generalise an entire class of people without providing for exception.

 

Anyway, I cannot see it being fruitful for us to go on about this much more.  I think what I am really seeking is some sensitivity - and if I seem over-sensitive to you - I hope at least you will try to understand the ways in which others perceive your words, as I will try to understand you too.

 

Jose, thanks for the definition, you big yank. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mind you - one last question 

 

I do have to chuckle though that a latino guy and a black guy are being called out for racism by a limey

 

Even in the context of a joke - and I'll grant that you didn't "post it" - even though you actually did - why in the world would it be ironic for a British person to denounce racism?

 

At the national level we've had anti-racism laws and universal suffrage a lot longer than you fine folk in the states.  At the individual level, I'm not sure how you can accuse the British man on the street of any sort of underlying racism.

 

... maybe the thought process wasn't as serious as that though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we've got a white people on our hands:

 

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mind you - one last question 

 

I do have to chuckle though that a latino guy and a black guy are being called out for racism by a limey

 

Even in the context of a joke - and I'll grant that you didn't "post it" - even though you actually did - why in the world would it be ironic for a British person to denounce racism?

 

At the national level we've had anti-racism laws and universal suffrage a lot longer than you fine folk in the states.  At the individual level, I'm not sure how you can accuse the British man on the street of any sort of underlying racism.

 

... maybe the thought process wasn't as serious as that though.

 

Because I'm friends with quite a few British people and they're just as nationalistic and racist as any other group.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Applies only to British people that Jose personally knows. Furthermore, by way of example and not as a limitation, Jose has agreed not to defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal or civil rights of any British, English, Irish, Scottish citizen, or any naturalized or habitating member of the United Kingdom. This post, and all posts written by Jose are further controlled, written, posted, operated, and administered from his computer in Florida in the United States of America. If you access one of Jose's posts from outside the United States, you are responsible for a level of offense in compliance with all local laws, customs, and regulations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't say that it was racist to make observations about a group.  I said that it was racist to generalise an entire class of people without providing for exception.

 

Anyway, I cannot see it being fruitful for us to go on about this much more.  I think what I am really seeking is some sensitivity - and if I seem over-sensitive to you - I hope at least you will try to understand the ways in which others perceive your words, as I will try to understand you too.

 

Jose, thanks for the definition, you big yank. wink.png

Try the word "seppo."* :P

 

Anyway,

Does being an atheist/non-theist affect your dating potential?

 

Personally, I don't think it does in any meaningful way. If a lady (or man, for that matter) doesn't like my beliefs then they can simply treat it as a difference of opinion or they can shove it. If it is that big a deal to them, technically it does affect my dating potential but I don't really care since I wouldn't want to date someone like that anyway.

 

Have the women in my dating life known about your atheism/non-theism? How has it affected your relationship(s)?

 

For the most part, that's a moot point since I was a Christian during most of my romantic relationships. I properly dated one woman at the end of 2011 (it ended shortly before I joined this site) and she didn't care. I was actually dating her when someone asked a whole lot of people in the room about their religious beliefs out of curiosity. She was Catholic (and I knew that already), but the answer I gave was a fairly absent-minded "I was," to which she said, "good answer."

 

I had a brief thing with another woman early last year, who identified as "Catholic when it suits." Suffice it to say, she didn't care either. That said, when the time came to rock and roll (if you know what I mean....) I didn't have any rubbers and she didn't want to use anything else - something that may have been influenced by her beliefs. If that's the case, I have a personal vendetta against the Pope. She ended it soon afterwards (and my being 100 percent honest about not wanting a relationship may have been a part of that), so as a result I've still got the old duck despite having been in four relationships.

 

So yeah, short story long: I've stuck with my policy of being 100 percent honest when asked and no-one's really minded.

 

*Don't try it. Apparently it originated from an old poem called "The Septic Tank". We should all just hold hands around the campfire and sing Kumbaya, then we wouldn't have any social problems in the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about dating and religion. Well, to start, let's ask all the non married single men about their dating life.

 

1.Does the fact that you're an Ex-Christian or Atheist affect your dating potential? 

 

 

2.Do/did the women you meet or date/dated know about your de-conversion? Did you tell her, or did she find out through other means? (e.g family, friends, facebook, etc)

 

3.If you answered yes to question 2, how did she react?  Did any of the women leave you or try and convert you when they found out?

1) was never an issue because it was not brought up.

2) she reads my log and I have discussed some of it with her. She knows I will not enter a church building. Which is not a problem to her.

3) there is nothing to convert because we have similar beliefs but a bit different if you know what I mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was cute, Jose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1.Does the fact that you're an Ex-Christian or Atheist affect your dating potential? 

No. I live in a country where most people aren't Christians. Even a lot of Christians don't seem to care too much if you are one or not and there are a lot of atheists here in New Zealand. I am fortunate to be in a country that is becoming more and more atheist as time goes by.

 

It does however iaffect who I will pick as a partner. If I'm gonna date a Christian she has to be accepting of me as an ex-Christian agnostic and respect the fact that I want nothing more to do with religion. And she is also going to have to accept the fact that I am going to argue against her beliefs if she tries to preach to me.

 

 

2.Do/did the women you meet or date/dated know about your de-conversion? Did you tell her, or did she find out through other means? (e.g family, friends, facebook, etc)

 

Yes I told potential partners early on.  I was a  Christian for over 30 years of my life so it was a big part of my life and the person I am today.

 

3.If you answered yes to question 2, how did she react? Did any of the women leave you or try and convert you when they found out?

 

In my country you expect that most people you meet won't be Christians. If you are that adament that you only want a  Christian partner, then you will naturally make that clear earlier on. No my partner did not react badly, but she does have Christian beliefs and we have had some heated debates. Interestingly enough she is now starting to doubt the existance of God.

 

Amusing dating story. I love Internet dating and have had  a great sex life in recent years because of it. I have met some real quality women too, including a solicitor and a doctor. Met my last two partners through it and also my current one. There was a Christian woman on there and in her profile she'd made some real weird comment about her love for Jesus that sounded kind of warped. I can't remember what it was, but I remember sending her a message, taking a little poke at her, teasing her about what she'd written. Needless to say I got no reply from her. A few months later I met up with a woman on another dating site and we met for coffee a couple of times. It was then that I discovered that she was the same woman I'd teased a few months earlier. Ha ha! I never told her though. We met up a few times after that but nothing eventuated. She is now a friend on Facebook and I'm still pretty sure she never made the connection.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. It's not a problem for me if it's not a problem for her.

2. Yes.

3. I Always tell them upfront if I know she is a christian. If she isn't OK with it in the beginning, the relationship does not start. End of story.

 

Honestly, I think this is one of those cases where the girls here have it harder. Christian gals are told they need to be submissive to the man, which ironically seems to make them more open minded toward dating dirty heathen men like myself. Hell, I think it even counted as a turn on for one christian gal I met in college. Atheist girls on the other hand...I would imagine the freethinking woman is going to have a much harder time with fundy guys. Having attended church for so long I know how deeply they try to push that the man is the head of the household. I think xian guys would view an atheist girl as either a slut, or a girl who is rebelling against them. I think they would either think they could use her for sex, or try to bully her into converting.

 

Xian girls view men such as myself with the whole "dark and mysterious" aura.woohoo.gif  I don't think we men have as many problems here.

 

I'd like to hear more from the girls in this thread. Maybe I'm wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possible. I think you're spot on about how Christian men seem to treat non-Christian women. My fundie preacher Evil Ex definitely manipulated me into converting to fundamentalism. But I still considered myself Christian at the time. I wouldn't have given him the time of day if he met me today and tried the shit he did then when I was young and dense.

 

I think also that when a Christian girl deconverts, a lot of what goes with that deconversion are those old gender roles she so closely cherished once upon a time. Becoming aware of women's rights and egalitarianism are part, I would venture to guess, of what makes Christian women more likely to leave a faith system that so relentlessly tramples both. It's rare to meet an ex-Christian woman who still clings to the rigid gender roles and misogyny of her old religion; I honestly can think of only one person I've met--and that online--who still did, though wrestling with the sex-negative indoctrination may take time for many of us. But I've met a lot of ex-Christian men who might have left the faith, but still cling to the Nice Guy myths and the "complementarian" views they had of women. Questioning women's role in society and in relationships isn't something I think comes to them automatically, as they're the privileged gender in Christianity to begin with. Not that lifelong non-Christians can't be obnoxious that way too, but it really seems endemic among men who've grown up steeped in that privilege, and deconverting doesn't seem like it brings an automatic questioning of those old assumptions like it did for me, and like it seems to for so many women.

 

It's damned easy to find a man who believes deep down that women are inferior, that women are just vagina-gatekeepers he must bamboozle to get past to get sex, and that he "deserves" a hot girlfriend of his choice who'll devote her life to making him happy, that "no sometimes means yes," that housework/childcare is beneath him, and that he has a right to tell his partner what she should do with her own body. It's a lot harder to find a man who's moved past all that bullshit. Being ex-Christian doesn't guarantee a man's egalitarianism at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was cute, Jose.

 

 

Please note I didn't say anything about the Welsh.

 

Fuck the Welsh.

 

welsh.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Please note I didn't say anything about the Welsh.

 

The Welsh are British, Jose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been to that town.  What lols.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possible. I think you're spot on about how Christian men seem to treat non-Christian women. My fundie preacher Evil Ex definitely manipulated me into converting to fundamentalism. But I still considered myself Christian at the time. I wouldn't have given him the time of day if he met me today and tried the shit he did then when I was young and dense.

 

I think also that when a Christian girl deconverts, a lot of what goes with that deconversion are those old gender roles she so closely cherished once upon a time. Becoming aware of women's rights and egalitarianism are part, I would venture to guess, of what makes Christian women more likely to leave a faith system that so relentlessly tramples both. It's rare to meet an ex-Christian woman who still clings to the rigid gender roles and misogyny of her old religion; I honestly can think of only one person I've met--and that online--who still did, though wrestling with the sex-negative indoctrination may take time for many of us. But I've met a lot of ex-Christian men who might have left the faith, but still cling to the Nice Guy myths and the "complementarian" views they had of women. Questioning women's role in society and in relationships isn't something I think comes to them automatically, as they're the privileged gender in Christianity to begin with. Not that lifelong non-Christians can't be obnoxious that way too, but it really seems endemic among men who've grown up steeped in that privilege, and deconverting doesn't seem like it brings an automatic questioning of those old assumptions like it did for me, and like it seems to for so many women.

 

It's damned easy to find a man who believes deep down that women are inferior, that women are just vagina-gatekeepers he must bamboozle to get past to get sex, and that he "deserves" a hot girlfriend of his choice who'll devote her life to making him happy, that "no sometimes means yes," that housework/childcare is beneath him, and that he has a right to tell his partner what she should do with her own body. It's a lot harder to find a man who's moved past all that bullshit. Being ex-Christian doesn't guarantee a man's egalitarianism at all.

People generally only deal with issues that give them some sort of cognitive dissonance. I suspect those who leave religion are not more intelligent or reasonable or rational but just less capable of dealing with the dissonance they face. Depending on your make up, the dissonance could be related to theology and the like or related to 'emotionally charged' issues like the problem of evil or the suffering that's in the world. Neither person is more intelligent.

 

And I guess this is why some people are surprised to see those leave religion still holding onto irrational beliefs. If it's understood that they're not 'extra intelligent' and that they generally only deal with issues that concern them and give them dissonance, then we can see why people who leave can hold onto these irrational views; whether they be racist, sexist or other. I know plenty of atheists who believe in alien conspiracy theories too for example.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting observation and I think very valid. I think the dissonance with sexism probably resonates a lot more with women than men because we face a lot more of it.

 

It used to surprise me a lot to discover sexism in men who'd left Christianity, but now it doesn't really. Just rejecting one thing--Christianity itself--doesn't automatically imply rejection of all the indoctrination Christianity implies. The "mental tapes" still play, for both men and women, though I think in different ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting observation and I think very valid. I think the dissonance with sexism probably resonates a lot more with women than men because we face a lot more of it.

 

It used to surprise me a lot to discover sexism in men who'd left Christianity, but now it doesn't really. Just rejecting one thing--Christianity itself--doesn't automatically imply rejection of all the indoctrination Christianity implies. The "mental tapes" still play, for both men and women, though I think in different ways.

The unfortunate thing about most humans (including myself) is that we are apathetic to the plights of others unless it affects us personally or the very least someone we care about. So it stands to reason, a woman will be more aware and bothered by sexism than your average man since the sexism is in his favor. Aside from that, it's prevalent in our culture. When I was first seeing Galien, most of the 'advice' (that was not asked for) I received from guys was 'since you're not sexually experienced, just string her along for a while and get some experience then go find yourself a better one'. A 'better' one meaning a younger one I assume. None of these people were at any time Christians.

 

Also, what I realised was that it's very hard for most people to stand up for what's right when they feel peer pressure to do otherwise. Unfortunately, society isn't that much better than Christianity, and in a lot of ways I think Christian men view women better than secular men who much regard women as I think you put it somewhere 'vagina-gatekeepers'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was first seeing Galien, most of the 'advice' (that was not asked for) I received from guys was 'since you're not sexually experienced, just string her along for a while and get some experience then go find yourself a better one'. A 'better' one meaning a younger one I assume. None of these people were at any time Christians.

 

... wow. That was breathtakingly demeaning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

When I was first seeing Galien, most of the 'advice' (that was not asked for) I received from guys was 'since you're not sexually experienced, just string her along for a while and get some experience then go find yourself a better one'. A 'better' one meaning a younger one I assume. None of these people were at any time Christians.

 

... wow. That was breathtakingly demeaning.

 

 

I've heard worse. My father very much has a Sean Connery view when it comes to hitting women. Just before I left to come down here my father was muttering something about being an old man now and because of his health can no longer keep my mother 'in line'. Anyways, I won't derail this topic further.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Please note I didn't say anything about the Welsh.

 

The Welsh are British, Jose.

 

 

 

Fine. Let me revise.

 

Fuck Morrissey. Whiny twit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No objections here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.