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Goodbye Jesus

Angels In The Six-Day War?


Kris

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Thanks for your frat info on tank-- I really don't know a whole lot about them so that gave me a lot more understanding.

 

The gentleman who was run over by the tank does claim divine providence as he is now the head of the Temple Institute who want to lead in building the third temple-- he feels god saved him to do this -- that is what makes this story extra creepy for me!!!

 

However, I have seen several different versions of the story and no actual UN documentation (just verbal reports) nor any Syrian soldier confirming the account so I guess I chalk it up to a good story that this guy has inflated in his mind and told so many times people don't dispute it?

 

I still would love to see the supposed UN documentation!! Wonder why he has never posted it online to bolster his story!

1. Different versions of the (really unlikely) story.

2. With no real or independent documentation (despite all these supposed eye witnesses).

3. From people who have an agenda, and everything to gain.

 

Sounds like you just came up with your answer: it's either greatly exaggerated, and he was horribly maimed in a freak tank accident, but survived on a slim chance... or, more likely, totally fake. (The last one - totally fake - is far more likely for the more "miraculous" versions of the story. As you say, there are several.)

 

Okay, so I just looked this guy up. Hilarity ensues. Sounds to me like God is doing a crappy job of building that temple... It would be pretty ironic, don't you think, if "God saved him to build the Third Temple" ... and his protest group wanes in influence after several hard setbacks, and he dies of old age or something anyway. Oh, wait, that's exactly what's happening. A supporting group's site - by their own admission, said temple building is just not getting done. Wikipedia, an overview of the group's activities, and political and historical context. Not much success, really. Oh, and hey, I was right about the connection to fundamentalist Christians.

Nothing about this guy exists, outside of this small circle of people who really, really, want to believe he was saved by angels. There is also a small circle of people who really, really, want to believe in bigfoot too. They have their own stories, also. Does this make it true? Heck, no. Think about it: there's already a LOT of things you don't believe in, because they sound batsh*t insane, and literally incredible, as in not to be given any credibility. When you ask yourself about angels, the reason I don't think these are angels is the same reason I don't think that there's a bigfoot (I'll hazard a guess you don't either). But in case you do, here's a bunch of other stories. You probably won't believe most of these either.

 

Well, that pretty much clinches it. It's a story, created to help bolster political and ideological beliefs and ends, regardless of whether he survived a very lucky freak tank accident (possible, but insanely unlikely, and, if possible, definitely survivable without supernatural aid). Angels? I don't think so. Even if his story's right, it boils down to: got gently run over by a tank, and horribly injured, and they just didn't bother to shoot him. Given the lack of other witnesses, and the fact that he has a lot to gain for his and other's ideological goals, I'd say the entire thing is a fiction.

 

Edit: I mean, now that I think about it, you need more independent verification for a Guiness World Record, and he's trying to start the End of Days?? God sure seems to think the rest of us have low standards of proof. Seems like it would have gone a lot better for him if he had better evidence. Sort of pointless to dramatically save a guy... and then make sure he can't prove his lunatic story.

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I guess I chalk it up to a good story that this guy has inflated in his mind and told so many times people don't dispute it?

Exactly, Kris. Exactly. You got it! (And, they don't WANT to dispute it, because it confirms what they believe.)

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It probably is, "one person's assessment" but, again, I think you're giving these people WAY too much credit for fair play. I think they're outright lying. Faith and conviction let people excuse to themselves all sorts of immoral behaviour. I'd also like to recommend the "archaeological findings" thread mentioned earlier in this one, for a case study in the multitudinous ways the very religious and very convinced deceive themselves and others for fun and profit. Seriously, read it. Besides, if they had any kind of credible documentation that did actually mean anything, it would be published in mainstream news outlets. Books? Anything?? Do they have this? Nope. Just interviews by and of, people whose motivations are already extremely suspect. We call that conflict of interest, and it's a very bad one, on the scale of academic sins. Why do you believe these guys? They're liars. Outright, bald-faced liars.

 

We have evidence, you have lots of links and well-cited articles, we even checked these people's claims, on their own site.

Is it likely he was hit by a tank and lived? No. We have lots of information on tanks, checked the claims of the stories, and looked at lots of pictures and video. None of these had anything to prove regarding his claims, yet they militate against it being true.

Is it likely that he was saved by angels? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Not one of 10,000 Syrian eyewitnesses came forward? No, it's not likely.

So, saved by God so he could build the Temple again... how's that coming along? Not well. It's just not going well at all. Probably won't happen. So, this one we've got proof isn't true, either.

 

What do they have as evidence that such claims are true? A whole lot of ludicrous stories, and hearsay. By people who have things to gain from it. And the UN documents thing is another of these claims. Why is it any different? It's yet another claim, without the evidence to back it up. I want citations. You don't just say, "I have documents that prove it" you say, if it is true, "On Form 195.4321 A, as you can see on the photocopies provided, we have six notarized eyewitness statements, and an investigation casefile cover letter, confirming claims of angels being seen." Oh, they tell the story on the site, but they don't give any citations?? They mention documents, but don't tell us where to find them and read them, or even what they are?? This is DISHONEST. That's the smoking gun. They're lying, Kris.

 

Now, if it still really bothers you about the UN documents, you can go to their site, and use their contact form, or address. Write them an email or letter. Tell them about your interest in the story, and ask them for the UN documents, photocopy, citations, notarised witness statements, anything. If you even get a dodgy, "why we couldn't do that, something something conspiracy" reply back, I'll be very surprised. (Unless they send you a form letter asking for a donation, in which case I won't be surprised at all...) If it will settle your mind, it will be worth the international postage.

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I think that the only part I have trouble letting go of in this story goes back to the earlier posts that I had made in which the person interviewing Mr. Solomon stated that he had actual UN documentation of the event.  Now, I don't know what that documenation actually says.  The article seems to allude that it mentions reports of angels, but it may be that there was the verbal story and the UN document just shows that the squirmish took place-- I really wish I could see this actual document.  It could also be one person's assessment of what they heard about the events.  Not sure what UN Officials provide, etc.  But, anyway, that is the main thing that is causing me stress.  I have to admit, I am having a really rough day today-- major panic and pain.

 

Keep in mind that  people who report to the UN are people and so are the people in the UN-- they are all just human beings.  It's possible the story could have gotten out and someone reported it to the UN and someone just made a note of it in a report stating that some soldier claimed some other soldiers saw angels around him.  It's possible the UN person is also religious and wanted to believe OR that the person reported it REALLY wanted to believe it and the UN person had to include it in reports simply because that's what was being said. IF there's even a document and even if there IS a document stating someone reported siting angels it still doesn't make it true; look at the news and other angels sitings that people claim.  Just because it MIGHT be in a UN document doesn't make it true; the UN is important but it's not the say all, be all on supernatural matters. 

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Awesome point, kolaida: (Just like Project Blue Book doesn't make aliens real.)

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Really good point Kolaida.  I was kind of thinking that as well. 

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Angels are going to descend from on high to save somebody who was run over by his own side's tank (how?? did it sneak up on him? we'll look at that part later) but not anybody else... like say, innocent people caught in the crossfire, or friendly fire incidents, or purges that came afterwards. No? We're going to save the guy flattened by a tank. The guy must be important. What did he do AFTER the war? Did he survive it? More to the point: does he exist? That's the part that makes me sick about miracle stories - any time a "miracle" saves one little girl, how many others died that day from basically preventable reasons, or things that weren't their fault like childhood AIDS. And people take this for inspirational, rather than completely appalling.

 

i thought the same. why should angels save a single person or influence a war but let the holocaust happen if their job is to save the jews /israel?

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Yeah, they sure were missing in action during the Holocaust-- that is for sure. 

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Kris: I have read the post. This kind of thing has been done since religion began. At this stage it

can't be proved or disproved, in all likelihood. But you are dealing with a specific event in history

without the availability of evidence that is now reliable. During the 6 days war there were jokes known world wide about the Arabs literally running from the Israelis. They(the Arabs) were not well trained at that time, or so we heard here in the US. These angels could have been a story created to defend

against the criticism the soldiers would have to answer to back home. But I don't know. And none of us knows what actually happened. Even those that were there do not necessarily know. If we tried to investigate every claim of a supernatural appearance by all the religions of the world throughout history we would be headed down more than a rabbit hole. These things have been claimed forever. Why do you think they have never, a single time, been proven in a reliable way for the world to see?

 

More importantly, why do you even consider these kind of things possible? Only the religious or newly

religious see these things. The philosopher John Locke wrote that we (no one)is obliged to take someone else's word for some supernatural event supposedly seen or heard. If god wants to communicate with me there a lot better ways to do it. If you choose to believe these kind of things, which stories and from which religions will you choose? You will have plenty to choose from. Good luck. bill

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Jews portray God as helping them defeat their enemies  Arabs portray God as helping them defeat etc...Christians do the same..why even read such drivel?  You may as well read a fairy tale ...as an adult who has time for such things?

 

When each of these groups gets clobbered its the devil when they win its God...so please memorize this quote and never forget it:

 

 

"Religion started when the first rogue met the first fool"... Voltaire

 

PS If I ever decide God really is for the Jews I'm buying a yarmulke first chance I get!! OY VEY!

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Some of the other details in this story are aparently questionable and part of a huge mess in the media, but this quote shows just what sort of stories get told during war time, and just how fast those stories become exagerations.

 

http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313-4

 

 

 

During one raid, accompanied by two dogs, the Shooter says that he and his team wiped out "an entire spiderweb network." Villagers told Iraqi newspapers the next day that "Ninjas came with lions."
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I did a little research on "Islamic war miracles" and found that there are a number of miraculous events as well--that makes things interesting!! I copied a page I found and really found the story of the Israeli troops reporting seeing a bunch of people in white-- could it be more angels--- just fighting for the other team?

 

 

 

 

 

Allah Akhbar.. Miracles in the Gaza war.

 

The story goes that, as had been told by al-fadhil Ustadz Abdullah Zaik Abdul Rahma, Executive Chairman of Aman Palestin and also doubles as the President of The Muslim Association of Malaysia who had gone to Gaza on 20-31st January this year (2012). Here are a few true stories and his experiences in Gaza :

 

Incident 1

 

A Leader of the Mujahids of Gaza told Ustadz Zaik that, in one battle, the commander of the Mujahideen ordered the fighters to not fire at the tanks of the Jews which had entered their territory. Equipped with 6 remaining RPG's, suddenly, the weapon fired at the tank and destroyed it. The commander screamed so that they would not shoot and the fighters said that they did not do it. They said that their weapon suddenly functioned by itself and shot at the target. After that strange scene had ended, the fighters found that the remaining 6 RPG's were still unused! And who shot at those troops laknatullah??? Allahu Akhbar!

 

Incident 2

 

An interview by Israeli TV with the wounded Jewish troops laknatullah who said that they saw the Gaza fighters all dressed in white. Whereas, the uniform of the Hamas fighters are green in colour! Who were those in white???

 

Incident 3

 

The Jewish soldiers who were blind after an attack said: They suddenly had sands thrown into their eyes and they do not know who did it.

 

Incident 4

 

The first guided missile launched by Israel into Gaza hit its target, namely members of their own army! It turned back at them! Allahu Akhbar!

 

Incident 5

 

At the beginning of the war, Hamas's rockets were about to be launched, suddenly one of the rockets glided into the air without any body activating it. And that rocket hit its target in Israel!

 

Incident 6

 

The most amazing is, a Syrian ulama' has dreamed of meeting with Rasulullah SAW and he was seen drawing out a sword from its sheath. The ulama' asked, "O Rasulullah, where do you want to go?" And then he answered, "I am going to Gaza !!!" MashaAllah, Rasulullah himself wants to fight in Gaza, where are we?

 

That's more or less a bit of the stories of wonder which had been told by al-fadhil Ustadz Abdullah Zaik after being in Gaza for more than a week on a humanitarian mission. Those are true stories that the Muslims must know. Allahu Akbar!!!

 

#ALLAH IS WITH US... DON'T EVER STOP THE DO'A... I AM NOT A SYRIAN, I AM NOT A PALESTINIAN... BUT I AM A MUSLIM... THERE ARE MY BROTHERS THERE WHO NEED ME AND YOU... HELP THEM...EVEN ONLY WITH DO'A..

 

"O Allah, just like how You have sent the birds of Ababil to destroy the Mushrikeen forces on elephants, we beseech You O Allah, send down Your help this time to help our brothers and sisters in the lands of Palestine, Syria, and wherever the Muslims are oppressed and destroy the Zionist forces laknatullah!"

 

My friends read surah al-Baqarah verses 26-27 and surah Yunus verses 85,86,88 tonight. Please spread. So that Israel will be destroyed. Forward to all Muslims. Our brothers an sisters in faith have been surrounded, it is only a matter of time that they they will be slaughtered. The situation is so terrible. That's the least jihad that we can do. We beg for help very much, to all friends, spread as mush as we can.

#Only do'a that we could send, may Allah answer our do'a. ﷲ IN SHAA ALLAH ﷲ

 

Read also:

The Miracle Of Gaza : "White Uniformed Forces" Appeared In Gaza

"We Do Not Need Your Tears Here!"

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Hi, Kris! Good job, looking up angels on the "other side" - looks like everybody's seeing miracles, no matter what side they're on. That's the first step. The second is this: they all have the exact same proof - belief - that it's their own side that is in the "right." You know something? So does every religion on Earth. The exact same proof. Are they all right? Why not treat them all the same, then? Same treatment for the same proof: nice thing you believe, there, but you have nothing BETTER than the other guy, so I'll pass. After all, it's their problem to convince you.

 

If you think about it, you're learning a whole new set of skills, here. They will serve you well, because critical thinking is the Swiss Army Knife of learning. It can open up any jar or bottle, and help you cut through the bullshit. Learning new skills takes time, so don't forget to breathe, and take it easy.

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