WaitingInfinity Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I was reading a chapter in the textbook for my stupid Christian-based class (so glad to be transferring soon!) and it was talking about heaven and hell. I hate for this to be a repeat topic, but I got pissed and had to comment somewhere. The author was saying that in heaven people will not marry, they will recognize their spouses but feel nothing for them. Instead people will rejoice in how these people worked to influence them toward God. There is no anxiety, worry, death, disease, sadness, or anything bad in heaven. The Holy Spirit will make people into one big chorus that will praise God forever. The thought occurred to me (and made me very upset) that I would not want to go to heaven at all! Why would I want to go somewhere where I would no longer feel love for my boyfriend or husband? Why would I want to look at him and feel equal love for him and everyone except God? That sounds horrible! I love him more than anything. Why would I ever want that to stop? Also, in heaven, people lose their humanity. It'll be boring and dull. No interesting twists. Just praising God. Pain and suffering are what allow us to enjoy happiness and pleasantries. In a place devoid of opposites, how would anyone ever be happy? What about my interests? Will I lose my personality? I love video games. I like Grand Theft Auto. Obviously God won't have GTA in heaven. And I probably won't even like it anymore. So my personality has shifted. People will become mindless robots forever and ever. Heaven sounds like hell to me. I'm glad I don't believe in it. It sounds like the people who invented the concept made it so perfect that it became imperfect. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 One of my favorite cartoon is a Farside drawing in which someone is sitting on a cloud in heaven thinking-- "I wished I had a magazine!" It made me laugh because I always thought heaven sounded really boring! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Christopher Hitchens compared the xtian heaven to North Korea. Of course, heaven's just a lifelong empty promise, the same way that hell's a lifelong empty threat. The more I think about the comparison to North Korea, the more I agree with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Very well said op, what makes you you is your differences. Take away enough differences and you won't be you at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 One of my earliest doubts as a child was thinking that heaven sounded absolutely tedious. No food? No pets? No books? No laughter? I had to convince myself that we would feel something different there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I always ask my still believing wife if she's worried that she's not going to be able to enjoy heaven what with me being supposedly tortured for eternity. Surely it's going to bother her. Maybe they will remove me from her memory so that it doesn't bother her. She's going to really wonder where our son came from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm going to hell either way. If I remain true to myself and honest about my doubts, then I will go to hell. Contrariwise, if I recant my doubts and betray myself, then I get to spend eternity with the very god who would have thrown me into hell for having doubts, which would be hell for me. Anyway, WaitingInfinity, if I get there before you, I'll save you a seat! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 There is no free will in heaven. There couldn't be. Your idea of joy that was learned while on earth would have to be removed from your consciousness in order to enjoy an eternity of doing nothing but worshiping a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Oh it's going to be great. We are going to sing Jesus Loves Me the whole time. And we will sit in pews forever and ever. Jesus loves me this I know For the Bye Bull tells me so Foolish ones to him belong They are week but he smells strong. Yep Jebus loves me Yep Jebus loves me Yep Jebus loves me Da Bye Bull tells me so! Next verse, same as the first! Jebus loves me this I know For da Buy Bull tells me so . . . Yeah, that would never get boring; not even after a hundred billion years even. Next verse, same as the first! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted November 11, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 11, 2013 The author was saying....blah blah blah stupid shit blah blah blah.... He knows this HOW? I'm with you -- heaven sounds like torture! Guess we'll all meet in hell. I'll bring the margaritas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLFfHzWwQY 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I was reading a chapter in the textbook for my stupid Christian-based class (so glad to be transferring soon!) and it was talking about heaven and hell. I hate for this to be a repeat topic, but I got pissed and had to comment somewhere. The author was saying that in heaven people will not marry, they will recognize their spouses but feel nothing for them. Instead people will rejoice in how these people worked to influence them toward God. There is no anxiety, worry, death, disease, sadness, or anything bad in heaven. The Holy Spirit will make people into one big chorus that will praise God forever. The thought occurred to me (and made me very upset) that I would not want to go to heaven at all! Why would I want to go somewhere where I would no longer feel love for my boyfriend or husband? Why would I want to look at him and feel equal love for him and everyone except God? That sounds horrible! I love him more than anything. Why would I ever want that to stop? Also, in heaven, people lose their humanity. It'll be boring and dull. No interesting twists. Just praising God. Pain and suffering are what allow us to enjoy happiness and pleasantries. In a place devoid of opposites, how would anyone ever be happy? What about my interests? Will I lose my personality? I love video games. I like Grand Theft Auto. Obviously God won't have GTA in heaven. And I probably won't even like it anymore. So my personality has shifted. People will become mindless robots forever and ever. Heaven sounds like hell to me. I'm glad I don't believe in it. It sounds like the people who invented the concept made it so perfect that it became imperfect. This "heaven" rings of something else that a lot of us have probably heard. "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile." (Various episodes of Star Trek series.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I always felt guilty over being depressed about going to heaven because it sounds so terrible, but I told myself that in heaven we would be perfect, so we wouldn't want to do anything but praise god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Yep. Heaven reminds me of this one. Great episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaitingInfinity Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Yeah, the author really has no idea what he was talking about. He makes hilarious contradictions. At one point he said no one knows what happens after death because it is the biggest mystery of life. Then he went on to say that he was confident of heaven. And I was like....but I thought you just said no one knows....! He also said that the eternal praise and glory makes God sound like an egotist and I thought, "Hurrah! he is finally saying something worthwhile!" But then he went on to say that God deserves the glory and praise automatically. That doesn't make him any less of a narcissist! Even if I deserved praise and glory for something, I could conceivably still refuse it. I will never understand people who want to go to heaven and praise God all day. I never enjoyed two hours of a worship service when I was a Christian. Imagine a thousand years...or forever! And if we were made perfect so that we never stopped enjoying praising God, then that would be an alteration of my personality. And unlike the song "Big House" promises, I would think there is no football with Jesus in heaven. There would be no competition and no goal. No one would be able to take sides and no one would be sad if they lost. It would be the most boring thing ever! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Heaven makes me think of a giant Borg cube, but with better lighting than a Borg cube in Star Trek and streets of gold. Everyone who went there would be a bunch of drones, wandering around, praising their god. Then, when the time for the end of the Earth comes, everyone in Heaven goes down and says, "We are the Christian Borg. You will either allow yourselves to be assimilated or you will be tortured forever. Resistance is futile." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GettingDown Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I actually use to wonder about this. If my memory is correct I use to feel bad about not wanting to worship 24/7. I think I would block it out my telling myself it's the enemy making me think that way. You know typical christian "thinking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I will never understand people who want to go to heaven and praise God all day. I never enjoyed two hours of a worship service when I was a Christian. Imagine a thousand years...or forever! And if we were made perfect so that we never stopped enjoying praising God, then that would be an alteration of my personality. I don't believe anyone on the planet actually wants to praise gawd all day. They just tell themselves that to feel good or to set a good example for other Xians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I was reading a chapter in the textbook for my stupid Christian-based class (so glad to be transferring soon!) and it was talking about heaven and hell. I hate for this to be a repeat topic, but I got pissed and had to comment somewhere. The author was saying that in heaven people will not marry, they will recognize their spouses but feel nothing for them. Instead people will rejoice in how these people worked to influence them toward God. There is no anxiety, worry, death, disease, sadness, or anything bad in heaven. The Holy Spirit will make people into one big chorus that will praise God forever. The thought occurred to me (and made me very upset) that I would not want to go to heaven at all! Why would I want to go somewhere where I would no longer feel love for my boyfriend or husband? Why would I want to look at him and feel equal love for him and everyone except God? That sounds horrible! I love him more than anything. Why would I ever want that to stop? Also, in heaven, people lose their humanity. It'll be boring and dull. No interesting twists. Just praising God. Pain and suffering are what allow us to enjoy happiness and pleasantries. In a place devoid of opposites, how would anyone ever be happy? What about my interests? Will I lose my personality? I love video games. I like Grand Theft Auto. Obviously God won't have GTA in heaven. And I probably won't even like it anymore. So my personality has shifted. People will become mindless robots forever and ever. Heaven sounds like hell to me. I'm glad I don't believe in it. It sounds like the people who invented the concept made it so perfect that it became imperfect. The difference between you and a Christian is you use your brain to analyze this baloney and discover how utterly boring heaven will be. Apparently God gives everyone a supernatural lobotomy when they enter heaven. Being a non-believer you see the problem with this. A Christian who already is suffering from the pseudo-lobotomy of Christianity will have no problem turning his brain from Simmer to Off in heaven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaLeah Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Yes, I remember at first taking immortality and heaven for granted, since I grew up in a Christian home. But I also remember asking my mom where I was before I was born. If I didn't exist then, why would some people who had existed before and people who existed later... how did that all work? If souls exist forever, shouldn't we have always been too? And then trying to comprehend heaven, they said that we wouldn't love our family and spouses and loved ones any less... we'd just love everyone else just as much. That felt... repellant somehow. Some people aren't that nice, but they're Christians. But they would have also achieved enlightenment, and maybe they'd apologize for treating me so poorly in life. Still... uncomfortable. Now I understand, it's our humanity that makes us special, what makes us what we are. We appreciate good things, because we have experienced tough times and suffering. And yet through suffering, we develop empathy. And by understanding our life is finite, we make it count. It's precious because it's we are born, grow, flourish, experience everything, and then wane. And we think on our next generation of humans, and we try to leave them something better than what we found ourselves. Feeling total love and happiness... it sounded like a forever drug trip to me. No one likes suffering, and yet, every important life decision I made came about because I was uncomfortable and had to make decisions to create a change. Discomfort fosters growth. Without it, we become like... Well, you know those super rich kids, the ones who never had to try? They are spoiled, miserable, drug addicted people. We are so much like the chicken who has to break free of its egg on its own in order to develop its own needed muscle strength. If a human helps the chick break out of its egg, the chick dies. Heaven sounds like death. Death of identity as well as a sense of accomplishment and pride / satisfaction / a sense of achievement. When you say, "God did it, not me," you're letting go of every personal sense of satisfaction and growth. God awarded you, you didn't build that. I accept my life, what I've built, and where I've failed, and where I've learned how to do better. I don't see God anywhere in it. Heaven sounds horrible. It is the opposite of freedom. If your only choice is to worship and love God or go to hell... it's a terrible choice. We are choosing between door number one (hellfire) and door number two (mindless slavery / happiness)... and I chose the hidden door number three. So did you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaitingInfinity Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 I loved midniteriders lobotomy analogy. And RaLeah, that was super insightful. That was exactly what I was trying to get at, though I did not express it as beautifully. Heaven is like a utopia--it sounds great on paper, but it would never work as great in real life. Our imperfections are what make us perfect. Instead of hoping for a day that will change our imperfections, we should embrace them. And, of course, try to work on the ones that are not so kind to others like selfishness or greed. Christians always ask about life being pointless for us non-Christians. Why does life matter if you will just die? I would love to ask back, "Why do your personality and personal preferences matter if individuality will be scrubbed away in your heaven?" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I heard a preacher say in one sentence, "We will be exactly who we are now after we die and go to heaven, so we'll still be ourselves and know each other," and a few sentences later say, "We will be perfect, exactly like Jesus, when we're in heaven." Nope, he lied because those two sentences contradict each other. I read a psychology thing that said having TOO much stress is bad (of course!) but having NO stress is actually very hard. Think of a job where you would literally sit at a desk with no challenges, nothing hard to do, nothing unpleasant, but nothing to challenge you intellectually, nothing to work through and solve, no feeling of accomplishment. Just repeating a simple task over and over with lots of down time. That might be nice for a week or so, but imagine going into the second or third . . . or twentieth . . . year of this job. The psychologists said that is actually an extremely stressful situation. Think about animals in old-fashioned zoos who got neurotic and started chewing on themselves from utter boredom and stress from being in a small cage with nothing to do. That's what the common conception of xian heaven reminds me of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaitingInfinity Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Yeah, we NEED a mean between vices and virtues as Aristotle said. We cannot have too much happiness or too little happiness. We cannot have too much stress or too little stress. Everything must be in moderation. Too much courage is foolhardiness. Too little courage is fear. My Christian psychology professor said today as we were analyzing an interview that we need sadness to define our happiness. We need the bad moments to show us the good moments. The balance between good and bad is key. I almost mentioned that heaven was not a place like that, but I held my tongue. I did not want to get into any theological discussion at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrisassaf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I was reading a chapter in the textbook for my stupid Christian-based class (so glad to be transferring soon!) and it was talking about heaven and hell. I hate for this to be a repeat topic, but I got pissed and had to comment somewhere. The author was saying that in heaven people will not marry, they will recognize their spouses but feel nothing for them. Instead people will rejoice in how these people worked to influence them toward God. There is no anxiety, worry, death, disease, sadness, or anything bad in heaven. The Holy Spirit will make people into one big chorus that will praise God forever. The thought occurred to me (and made me very upset) that I would not want to go to heaven at all! Why would I want to go somewhere where I would no longer feel love for my boyfriend or husband? Why would I want to look at him and feel equal love for him and everyone except God? That sounds horrible! I love him more than anything. Why would I ever want that to stop? Also, in heaven, people lose their humanity. It'll be boring and dull. No interesting twists. Just praising God. Pain and suffering are what allow us to enjoy happiness and pleasantries. In a place devoid of opposites, how would anyone ever be happy? What about my interests? Will I lose my personality? I love video games. I like Grand Theft Auto. Obviously God won't have GTA in heaven. And I probably won't even like it anymore. So my personality has shifted. People will become mindless robots forever and ever. And that is a good thing! In my ideal state, people will want heaven simply becuase they are told to want heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrisassaf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I heard a preacher say in one sentence, "We will be exactly who we are now after we die and go to heaven, so we'll still be ourselves and know each other," and a few sentences later say, "We will be perfect, exactly like Jesus, when we're in heaven." Nope, he lied because those two sentences contradict each other. I read a psychology thing that said having TOO much stress is bad (of course!) but having NO stress is actually very hard. Think of a job where you would literally sit at a desk with no challenges, nothing hard to do, nothing unpleasant, but nothing to challenge you intellectually, nothing to work through and solve, no feeling of accomplishment. Just repeating a simple task over and over with lots of down time. That might be nice for a week or so, but imagine going into the second or third . . . or twentieth . . . year of this job. The psychologists said that is actually an extremely stressful situation. Think about animals in old-fashioned zoos who got neurotic and started chewing on themselves from utter boredom and stress from being in a small cage with nothing to do. That's what the common conception of xian heaven reminds me of. In my ideal state, that would be the way things are! That is especially what I want for my children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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