New Forum Rules Question

[Joshpantera]

I'm just trying to understand why the strict rules and permission to post in this section was in order? 

 

No one seems to be talking about it and I don't know if that's because we're not allowed to discuss it or whether I'm just the first one to raise the question in a thread.

 

It just seems odd to me, say just as odd as making the science section exclusive and making people request permission to post about science. All those who would question science or give any one a hard time or debate about science being banished because we wouldn't want to hurt any science proponent's feelings or something to that effect. 

 

Any one (mods specifically) interested in discussing this further just to air it out? 

[seeker001]

I second this question

[Bhim]

Well I'm no mod, but I'd be happy to publicly speculate.

 

The lack of a science section probably has to do with science not being a particularly controversial issue here. Religion, on the other hand, is very much so. A lot of ex-Christians possess a general antipathy towards religion. Maybe this is because they can't envision a God without Jesus, or because Christian is the only religion they were exposed to. Or perhaps it's something else entirely. I can only speak for myself.

 

In any case, it puts us religious and/or spiritual ex-Christians in a tough spot. I, for example, came here to talk about my experiences as a Christian and why I left. I'm not looking to discuss atheism; it's not that I'm hostile to atheism or atheists (actually I consider myself sympathetic to this), but if I were looking for discussions on atheism there are many forums out there. There aren't many communities for former Christians though. One thing I like about this place is that ex-Christian means just that, and there's no presumption of atheism.

 

Now, most people here, myself included, are free in our lack of respect for Cheistianity. But many extend this to other religions too. For those of us who have religion and spirituality outside of Christianity, such lack of respect isn't very helpful. Discouraging disrespect for others' beliefs in this particular forum might allow for more fruitful discussion.

 

If other posters here had a disregard for science, similar rules in the science forum may be in order. But since that's not a problem, I imagine the mods see no reason to implement a solution.

[Ravenstar]

I think have a section like this is positive, as Bhim says, those who are spiritual but not christian need a spot to safely discuss that part of their lives as well.

 

If there were no rules in this section, as well as in the testimonials, it would also open it up to our 'guests' to abuse as well.

[Margee]

When I first joined the board, I did not read the rules for posting. I was so anxious to talk to someone and I certainly knew the 'testimony' section was for the beginners like me.

 

There has to be variety on a board to add interest, I've learned that now. Especially for many of us who have made Ex-c our home. We need a little variety while we are deconverting.  And there have to be rules for every section in order that people will.. and can remain in a safe or unsafe zone. We get to choose where we post. For instance you could have posted this thread in the 'rants and replies' or the 'totally off topic' section and you would have been OK doing that. People who are looking for alternate types of spirituality need to stay safe from being made fun of. They are in a delicate state after leaning that Christianity is a lie. I posted in that section for a long time. That is why  the rules were slightly changed and you need permission now. The owner, Dave is trying to make things safe for the people on Ex-c. I think it's a good thing now that I understand a few things about the board.   

 

Big *hug*

[Deva]

Well I'm no mod, but I'd be happy to publicly speculate.

 

The lack of a science section probably has to do with science not being a particularly controversial issue here. Religion, on the other hand, is very much so. A lot of ex-Christians possess a general antipathy towards religion. Maybe this is because they can't envision a God without Jesus, or because Christian is the only religion they were exposed to. Or perhaps it's something else entirely. I can only speak for myself.

 

In any case, it puts us religious and/or spiritual ex-Christians in a tough spot. I, for example, came here to talk about my experiences as a Christian and why I left. I'm not looking to discuss atheism; it's not that I'm hostile to atheism or atheists (actually I consider myself sympathetic to this), but if I were looking for discussions on atheism there are many forums out there. There aren't many communities for former Christians though. One thing I like about this place is that ex-Christian means just that, and there's no presumption of atheism.

 

Now, most people here, myself included, are free in our lack of respect for Cheistianity. But many extend this to other religions too. For those of us who have religion and spirituality outside of Christianity, such lack of respect isn't very helpful. Discouraging disrespect for others' beliefs in this particular forum might allow for more fruitful discussion.

 

If other posters here had a disregard for science, similar rules in the science forum may be in order. But since that's not a problem, I imagine the mods see no reason to implement a solution.

 

 

Excellent post, Bhim.  This pretty much covers my point of view as well. 

 

JoshPantera:  Of course you are allowed to discuss it. If you have any direct questions for me, I would be happy to answer them, if I can.   I am a moderator now, but first and foremost I am a human being with feelings. As long as things remain polite and respectful I am most inclined to discussion with my friends here on Ex-C. Feel free to send me a PM and I will also respond in that way, too, as you know.

[Joshpantera]

I guess what I was getting at was to ask if this is a result of people getting out of line. Were guests being abused here in the first place in order constitute a rigid system of protection? 

 

If so I must have missed it. I didn't realize that atheists were abusing spiritualists here.

[Deva]

Josh, it doesn't happen everyday, but I have seen some members run off.

 

Is it really that rigid? I will give permission to post to everyone that asks, and have tried to give permission to those already posting in this section so they don't even have to ask. Otherwise, the rules remain the same here as they have been for years - no harsh criticism.

[Bhim]

I guess what I was getting at was to ask if this is a result of people getting out of line. Were guests being abused here in the first place in order constitute a rigid system of protection? 

 

If so I must have missed it. I didn't realize that atheists were abusing spiritualists here.

 

I wouldn't say I've ever been "abused" by anyone (then again I have a pretty thick skin, so I'm not the best person to ask here).  Maybe "disenfranchisement" is a slightly better, if still problematic, term.  I often read posters talking about how they left Jesus and found the joy of atheism, and they are now perplexed that people can actually believe in religions.  I'm of course glad when anyone's spiritual journey leads them to contentment, even if the journey takes them out of spiritualism altogether.  But they seem to establish a dichotomy between Christianity and atheism, as though there are no other theistic options.  I'm not offended by this, but these aren't really discussions in which I have much to contribute.  You also sometimes find posters bashing a Christian on this forum (which I admit is quite understandable), and likening Jesus to other world religions.  Here again, this is something I can't relate to.  There are many reasons I don't like Jesus, but the fact that Jesus encourages religiosity isn't one of them.

 

Like I said above I'm not offended easily, but I can see this sort of thing offending others.

[Joshpantera]

Josh, it doesn't happen everyday, but I have seen some members run off.

 

Is it really that rigid? I will give permission to post to everyone that asks, and have tried to give permission to those already posting in this section so they don't even have to ask. Otherwise, the rules remain the same here as they have been for years - no harsh criticism.

I guess things aren't as rigid as they appear then. I only say rigid because this one forum in particular is like a red lettered billboard when compared to the rest of the sub-forums. But if it isn't rigid, and it's as laid back as you've suggested, then I suppose my wandering mind then goes back to the beginning and wonders why in the world any change was made at all if everyone can post and the rules are just the same as always. The only difference in that case is the red lettering to get everyone's attention. 

 

However, if the whole 'flashy thing' is aimed at making guests see this sub-forum stand out as a safe haven then I suppose the changes are a little more understandable. Perhaps as per the old way this sub-forum didn't really scream out at everyone as a protected zone. Now it certain does so mission accomplished in that respect. And I'm fine with the no harsh criticism thing. We wouldn't want to come off as stand offish to people like Bhim and others. 

[Joshpantera]

 

I guess what I was getting at was to ask if this is a result of people getting out of line. Were guests being abused here in the first place in order constitute a rigid system of protection? 

 

If so I must have missed it. I didn't realize that atheists were abusing spiritualists here.

 

I wouldn't say I've ever been "abused" by anyone (then again I have a pretty thick skin, so I'm not the best person to ask here).  Maybe "disenfranchisement" is a slightly better, if still problematic, term.  I often read posters talking about how they left Jesus and found the joy of atheism, and they are now perplexed that people can actually believe in religions.  I'm of course glad when anyone's spiritual journey leads them to contentment, even if the journey takes them out of spiritualism altogether.  But they seem to establish a dichotomy between Christianity and atheism, as though there are no other theistic options.  I'm not offended by this, but these aren't really discussions in which I have much to contribute.  You also sometimes find posters bashing a Christian on this forum (which I admit is quite understandable), and likening Jesus to other world religions.  Here again, this is something I can't relate to.  There are many reasons I don't like Jesus, but the fact that Jesus encourages religiosity isn't one of them.

 

Like I said above I'm not offended easily, but I can see this sort of thing offending others.

 

Your case is a pretty rare one indeed with going from Christianity to Hinduism. But completely understandable as I see it because as an ethnic Hindu I don't see your return to Hinduism as odd. 

 

But I'll expand on why so many ex-C's may have a hard time understanding why any one would subscribe to any religion. I don't how your Christian experience was but mine was one of huge religious bias. As a Christian I was raised under the impression that all of the pagan religions were complete substandard bunk, a work of the devil at that. So when I began to question Christianity all other religions were already ruled out in my mind. Christianity simply got in line with the rest. And I'm sure that's why you find so many people perplexed because they were already atheist when it comes to other peoples religions. They just simply went one step further from partial atheism to full atheism.  

 

In my case I kept venturing on and came to an understanding of pantheism.

[Deva]

Josh - the red writing was necessary only because we had people posting in the section who didn't realize what forum they were posting in, and that there were special rules. Also, because asking for permission is new, and people thought they were being excluded as some kind of punishment.

[MerryG]

Josh - the red writing was necessary only because we had people posting in the section who didn't realize what forum they were posting in, and that there were special rules. Also, because asking for permission is new, and people thought they were being excluded as some kind of punishment.

 

Thank you, Deva. I was one of those who didn't realize there were special rules. I usually enter discussions directly through the "View New Content" link and sometimes don't know what forum a particular discussion is taking place in.

 

A few weeks back a bunch of us -- including, I'm sorry to say, me -- piled on someone who was in this forum promoting Satanism.

 

I'm not sure even now how serious that poster was. But he seems to have left shortly after that, and if he left because of that pile-on, then he did so in part because I broke the rules. So I'm glad the Ex-C Spirituality forum now has more obvious protections & I'll pay more attention in the future.

[Deva]

Thank you, MerryG.

[MerryG]

Thank you, MerryG.

 

No, thank you and the great people of this wonderful forum for being so welcoming and embracing to all seekers.

[Joshpantera]

Thanks again Deva. 

 

And MerryG, I remember that theistic satanism thread too. The thread started in the lions den or somewhere like that and then got moved to this forum after some one decided that it belonged in the spirituality section instead.

 

I believe that I was also guilty of running the guy down a little bit (before it was moved). It did seem like a ridiculous troll but hey, if the guy was serious about his theistic beliefs then we all ran him off. That's really something to think about in terms of some one coming to the spirituality section and posting something similar.

 

Should we encourage ex-C's who pursue something as nonsensical as theist satanism? As per the rules the answer would seem to be a glaring yes.....

[Antlerman]

Thanks again Deva. 

 

And MerryG, I remember that theistic satanism thread too. The thread started in the lions den or somewhere like that and then got moved to this forum after some one decided that it belonged in the spirituality section instead.

 

I believe that I was also guilty of running the guy down a little bit (before it was moved). It did seem like a ridiculous troll but hey, if the guy was serious about his theistic beliefs then we all ran him off. That's really something to think about in terms of some one coming to the spirituality section and posting something similar.

 

Should we encourage ex-C's who pursue something as nonsensical as theist satanism? As per the rules the answer would seem to be a glaring yes.....

I'm not sure that encouraging someone means supporting the practice itself.  I've never had an issue in discussing other points of view on something, but when someone turns it into a 'you're an idiot' argument it crosses the line between being supportive of someone finding their own path for themselves and encouraging them by offering your opinions to help them, and to it being about dismissing them and promoting your own views as the true path for them to follow.  That's a bit too much like just another version of the Christian mentality which views everyone who doesn't think like them as unsaved, unclean, lost, blind, idiots, etc.  

 

What I find an interesting challenge personally is to take things which tend to jar our senses, such as Satanism because it appears to be just taking the Christian cross and flipping it upside down, and to find some actual good in it.  What is it that attracts people to it?  And not just in the sense of flipping the middle finger at the Church, but something that serves as an actual spiritual path for someone?  Can that be found in our thinking where we respect that to whatever extent we can, while not agreeing with it for ourselves?  And if so, can we respect that person for where they are at and encourage them to continue their own explorations?

 

To me personally, not speaking as a moderator here, I see this area as really a safe haven from debate.  Some people don't want to debate.  They just want to talk and discuss these deeply personal areas of their lives (spirituality is not an intellectual argument, but a lived experience that is deeply personal), and not have to be on guard trying to put on a thick skin defending against evangelists ramming their views down their throats.  This is a place to be vulnerable, and not having to go into protection mode which denies you the ability to be vulnerable.  Having respectful discussions of different points of view, is not the same thing, nor has the same effect having "defend yourself!, Present your evidence!," challenges thrown at you when you're just wanting to talk about something personal.

[Galien]

It's just plain mean to pick on people's beliefs. All of us have had to struggle with losing our religion. For the very senstive among us, that is a profoundly difficult experience. If we then go on to explore other belief systems that is no one's business but our own. No one needs to be calling other people names or telling them they are stupid. It is usually the deep people who explore belief, and the shallow who laugh at them. Immature and unkind.

[Joshpantera]

 

Thanks again Deva. 

 

And MerryG, I remember that theistic satanism thread too. The thread started in the lions den or somewhere like that and then got moved to this forum after some one decided that it belonged in the spirituality section instead.

 

I believe that I was also guilty of running the guy down a little bit (before it was moved). It did seem like a ridiculous troll but hey, if the guy was serious about his theistic beliefs then we all ran him off. That's really something to think about in terms of some one coming to the spirituality section and posting something similar.

 

Should we encourage ex-C's who pursue something as nonsensical as theist satanism? As per the rules the answer would seem to be a glaring yes.....

I'm not sure that encouraging someone means supporting the practice itself.  I've never had an issue in discussing other points of view on something, but when someone turns it into a 'you're an idiot' argument it crosses the line between being supportive of someone finding their own path for themselves and encouraging them by offering your opinions to help them, and to it being about dismissing them and promoting your own views as the true path for them to follow.  That's a bit too much like just another version of the Christian mentality which views everyone who doesn't think like them as unsaved, unclean, lost, blind, idiots, etc.  

 

What I find an interesting challenge personally is to take things which tend to jar our senses, such as Satanism because it appears to be just taking the Christian cross and flipping it upside down, and to find some actual good in it.  What is it that attracts people to it?  And not just in the sense of flipping the middle finger at the Church, but something that serves as an actual spiritual path for someone?  Can that be found in our thinking where we respect that to whatever extent we can, while not agreeing with it for ourselves?  And if so, can we respect that person for where they are at and encourage them to continue their own explorations?

 

To me personally, not speaking as a moderator here, I see this area as really a safe haven from debate.  Some people don't want to debate.  They just want to talk and discuss these deeply personal areas of their lives (spirituality is not an intellectual argument, but a lived experience that is deeply personal), and not have to be on guard trying to put on a thick skin defending against evangelists ramming their views down their throats.  This is a place to be vulnerable, and not having to go into protection mode which denies you the ability to be vulnerable.  Having respectful discussions of different points of view, is not the same thing, nor has the same effect having "defend yourself!, Present your evidence!," challenges thrown at you when you're just wanting to talk about something personal.

 

I find myself agreeing with the above. Mainly because aside from encouragement there is no other option in this section. And I don't see anything wrong with respecting an odd sounding belief to whatever extent we can manage while not agreeing with it ourselves. This theistic satanism thing is an interesting example.