falemon Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Christians, define for me exactly what a personal relationship is with Jesus and while we're at it what defines a relationship such that one could test for whether what one describes is actually a relationship. Explain exactly how one could attempt a personal relationship with Jesus, how they can test for this in an objective manor (the bible says to test all things, but also says we are led to believe lies too). Then create a fool proof test to identify this from the outside (but one can only test for people while they are christians, not after they deconvert). --- Please do stick to the topic, no trolling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 2, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2014 ^^^None of the above posts actually answer any of the questions in the OP, nor even address any of the points made in it. This is just typical dodging by believers who have no real answers to anything. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 ^^^None of the above posts actually answer any of the questions in the OP, nor even address any of the points made in it. This is just typical dodging by believers who have no real answers to anything. He's a complete fool. I am fully capable of running a service and have heard it all before. Hell, I said it all before. I have a very deep understanding of the bible and the 'spirit', etc. only, the religion is the work of men. It's as simple of that. But what is most foolish is that he presumed he would have thought of something I had not come across or thought about before even taking the time to listen to what I did and did not know and was already aware of. How foolish. By presuming ignorance of that which I am knowledgeable of, he completely writes himself off as I now know he has nothing to add and lacks the basic expression of love, and that is listening. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 ^^^None of the above posts actually answer any of the questions in the OP, nor even address any of the points made in it. This is just typical dodging by believers who have no real answers to anything. +1. Funguy (and you, too, SteveBennett and ironhorse if you're here), don't you ever just talk like normal people? Don't you ever just give plain, direct answers to direct questions? Do you really spend your entire lives on the pulpit or in the lecture hall? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 2, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2014 ^^^None of the above posts actually answer any of the questions in the OP, nor even address any of the points made in it. This is just typical dodging by believers who have no real answers to anything. He's a complete fool. I am fully capable of running a service and have heard it all before. Hell, I said it all before. I have a very deep understanding of the bible and the 'spirit', etc. only, the religion is the work of men. It's as simple of that. But what is most foolish is that he presumed he would have thought of something I had not come across or thought about before even taking the time to listen to what I did and did not know and was already aware of. How foolish. By presuming ignorance of that which I am knowledgeable of, he completely writes himself off as I now know he has nothing to add and lacks the basic expression of love, and that is listening. K. You asked a question, I provided a background answer for why even one would want a relationship with God, you rejected it and mocked me so you closed the door to dialogue, not me. Seeing as you were a former pastor yourself, please provide what the scriptures say then to your question. See you around the forums. That escalated quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 That is the best I can come up with on why we need a personal relationship with Yeshua. Notice how it wasn't till after they were redeemed did they go onto Mt. Sinai to receive instructional teachings on how a redeemed people live? Now being redeemed, you will know them by their fruit. Which is not a NT concept but founded in the OT. How could one attempt a relationship with Jesus? That is different for everybody I guess as everybody has their own testimony, same as everybody has their own testimony for why they left. I have known people that when they were in their teens, they just knew that Jesus was Lord and they were going to serve him. No dramatic altar calls or anything like that. I guess it is personal for everybody, but recognizing we need a redeemer to save us is foundational and understanding there is a Creator who loves us more then we can possibly imagine. The question wasn't why do we need a personal relationship with Jesus. It wasn't how do we attempt one. It was "... define for me exactly what a personal relationship is with Jesus." I can't speak for the OP, but to me that means, like, what do you and Jesus do together? What does it feel like? Does he answer your questions? Can you see him? If not, then what clear signs do you have that an actual two-way relationship exists? The OP also added some questions about how you test to make sure such a relationship exists. You're dodging, dodging, dodging. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 ^^^ darn, you beat me to it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Reading comprehension is a desired skill, at least to some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Doesn't count if the annihiliation comes from said person (being, whatever).. that's like..umm.. Stockholm syndrome. Lots of abused women and children act like this.. it's NOT healthy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Point is, how would you respond after to the person, or God who saved you from complete annihilation? Eternally grateful or ungrateful? That's not the issue, either. Gratitude is merely an emotion. One person can feel it without anyone being there to receive it. The issue is what is a relationship with Jesus? Relationship implies two-way and ongoing. It's a simple question, even if the relationship is with a complex being. How do you and Jesus relate to each other on a daily basis? Both of you. Back and forth. As individuals ... having a mutual relationship with each other? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 too little, too late 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 John 14:15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. All 613 of them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 2, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2014 FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. Fair enough. Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Mark 12:28-31New American Standard Bible (NASB) 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the [a]foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” "If you love me, do what I say!" This has got to be one of the most manipulative, guilt-inducing, control-freak tactics that has ever been invented. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. Fair enough. Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Mark 12:28-31New American Standard Bible (NASB) 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the [a]foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” "If you love me, do what I say!" This has got to be one of the most manipulative, guilt-inducing, control-freak tactics that has ever been invented. And not anything like a mutual relationship. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Point is, how would you respond after to the person, or God who saved you from complete annihilation? Eternally grateful or ungrateful? Stick to the topic. no trolling. This thread is for defining a personal relationship with Jesus, not for telling us why we should want one or asking how we would respond if God saved us from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. Fair enough. Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Mark 12:28-31New American Standard Bible (NASB) 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the [a]foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” You know, Funguy, when you first came here, I didn't like you. I thought you were arrogant and insensitive in a way that's very typical of christians who try to reconvert us. Right now, though, I find myself aching with sympathy for you. Don't worry, I realize you don't want my sympathy and you're free to reject it. I don't think you'll appreciate it when I explain. But we just watched you struggle sincerely and mightily to answer a question. That's something most proselytizers who come here won't do. So credit to you for that. And thank you. The reason I feel for you is that, once you finally got to your answer, you ended up defining your relationship with Jesus (I paraphrase, of course) as: I read orders in a book and I try to obey them. If you get meaning and happiness from that, more power to you. But to me, that seems like a really, really, really sad substitute for a genuine personal relationship. Obeying orders and not even having a chance to ask the order-giver why. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 2, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2014 A personal relationship with jesus that I sought after, was the same thing I look for in any other relationship with someone who loves you. A true relationship between two people would take care of each other. If 'distance' seems to happen, then you would work hard to have better communication. Each would nurture the other when down in the dumps. It would include empathy, meeting each other’s needs and supporting each other when they need you. You would be committed and try everything in your power not to hurt the other. You would discuss things openly. You would confide in each other. You would be comforted in very hard times. You would be inspired. You would feel free from judgements. You could remain interdependent...meaning that both parties would love one another, care for one another, desire closeness with one another, but respect each other enough to have their own identities. you would have the confidence that the relationship would always be there for you to turn to. You would learn how to manage any conflicts. You would create a strong foundation with each other by listening carefully to what the other is saying. You would show the other how much they are appreciated with small gestures.(like the hundreds of hours I spent trying to communicate with god) This is the type of relationship that I tried very hard to have with jesus, 'the mediator' who was supposed to mediate on my behalf with the 'big god'. Never happened except in my mind.... because I wanted more than anything in the world to believe the invisible god was there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. Fair enough. Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Mark 12:28-31New American Standard Bible (NASB) 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the [a]foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” "If you love me, do what I say!" This has got to be one of the most manipulative, guilt-inducing, control-freak tactics that has ever been invented. And not anything like a mutual relationship. FGR my question was to define the relationship, not explain why you think we should have a relationship. No background was necessary, and worst of all you didn't even answer the question. I asked clearly to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If you can't do that then please don't turn this thread into a mini canvas for your unwanted ideas that have nothing to do with the topic. I know you think we need saving, and you think there is something we don't know or understand. But what you failed to notice is that most christians don't understand, and it seems that understanding is what brought christians here. Fair enough. Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Mark 12:28-31New American Standard Bible (NASB) 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the [a]foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” "If you love me, do what I say!" This has got to be one of the most manipulative, guilt-inducing, control-freak tactics that has ever been invented. And not anything like a mutual relationship. No, it is pretty two way. Deuteronomy 28:1 [ Blessings at Gerizim ] “Now it shall be, if you diligently obey the Lord your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. Deuteronomy 28:2 All these blessings will come upon you and overtake you if you obey the Lord your God: Deuteronomy 28:3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country. Deuteronomy 28:4 “Blessed shall be the offspring of your body and the produce of your ground and the offspring of your beasts, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock. Deuteronomy 28:5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Deuteronomy 28:6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out This is still just stuff you've read in a book, Funguy. You have not yet said one word about your own intimate, personal, everyday relationship with Jesus. 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Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Do you ever think for yourself? I mean, at all? Is there anything that is in your head that is yours? or is it all just regurgitation without digestion? I'm curious because I can't imagine living by rote… I would be, effectively, brain dead. hmmm.. I don't think what the OP is asking for is a scriptural definition, but a human definition of a personal relationship with Jesus. We already know what the Bible says... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 A personal relationship with jesus that I sought after, was the same thing I look for in any other relationship with someone who loves you. A true relationship between two people would take care of each other. If 'distance' seems to happen, then you would work hard to have better communication. Each would nurture the other when down in the dumps. It would include empathy, meeting each other’s needs and supporting each other when they need you. You would be committed and try everything in your power not to hurt the other. You would discuss things openly. You would confide in each other. You would be comforted in very hard times. You would be inspired. You would feel free from judgements. You could remain interdependent...meaning that both parties would love one another, care for one another, desire closeness with one another, but respect each other enough to have their own identities. you would have the confidence that the relationship would always be there for you to turn to. You would learn how to manage any conflicts. You would create a strong foundation with each other by listening carefully to what the other is saying. You would show the other how much they are appreciated with small gestures.(like the hundreds of hours I spent trying to communicate with god) This is the type of relationship that I tried very hard to have with jesus, 'the mediator' who was supposed to mediate on my behalf with the 'big god'. Never happened except in my mind.... because I wanted more than anything in the world to believe the invisible god was there for me. Well (but very sadly) said, Margee. That's also what I'd expect and want from a relationship. But nope. It was all me reaching out and nothing coming back. I can understand why a god like Yahweh would (as written) just give orders, expect obedience, make promises, and smite to his heart's content. But then worshipping a remote being like that would be mere religion, not the relationship christians are always saying they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 No, it is pretty two way. Deuteronomy 28:1 [ Blessings at Gerizim ] “Now it shall be, if you diligently obey the Lord your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. Deuteronomy 28:2 All these blessings will come upon you and overtake you if you obey the Lord your God: Deuteronomy 28:3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country. Deuteronomy 28:4 “Blessed shall be the offspring of your body and the produce of your ground and the offspring of your beasts, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock. Deuteronomy 28:5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Deuteronomy 28:6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out Yet Christians do not enjoy blessings that distinguish them above any other group. God fails. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 You don't really seem get what is being asked though. I apologize for not making myself more clear. I'll see if I can reframe what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Emotional abuse can have devastating consequences on both physical and mental health. While emotional or psychological abuse may be difficult to pinpoint, examples abound. Here are some characteristics: Using economic power to control you Threatening to leave Making you afraid by using looks, gestures or actions Smashing things Controlling you through minimizing, denying and blaming Making light of the abuse and not taking your concerns about it seriously Continually criticizing you, calling you names, shouting at you Emotionally degrading you in private, but acting charming in public Humiliating you in private or public Withholding approval, appreciation or affection as punishment Results of Verbal and Emotional Abuse, from the Center for Relationship Abuse Awareness: A distrust of her spontaneity A loss of enthusiasm An uncertainty about how she is coming across A concern that something is wrong with her An inclination to reviewing incidents with the hopes of determining what went wrong A loss of self-confidence A growing self-doubt An internalized critical voice A concern that she isn't happier and ought to be An anxiety or fear of being crazy A sense that time is passing and she's missing something A desire not to be the way she is, e.g. "too sensitive," etc. A hesitancy to accept her perceptions A reluctance to come to conclusions A tendency to live in the future, e.g. "Everything will be great when/after ..." A desire to escape or run away A distrust of future relationships 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 "Personal relationship with Jesus." This should be fairly easily understood. Personal "of, pertaining to, or coming as from a particular person; individual; private: a personal opinion." Relationship "a connection, association, or involvement." Jesus "Also called Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth. born 4? b.c., crucified a.d. 29?, the source of the Christian religion. " (All definitions come from www.dictionary.com) So here it is all brought together. Define your individual, private connection, association, or involvement with the one known variously as Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth who is said to be the source of the Christian religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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