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Goodbye Jesus

The Bible And Homosexuality


FreeThinkerNZ

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2 Samuel 12:7-8:

 

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

 

 

 

Do you think that scripture condones polygamy?

 

Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong.

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And, btw,

 

please explain what it means for God to give a wife.

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"Scripture clearly states that men holding positions of leadership in the Christian congregation were to have only one wife (Deuteronomy 17:17, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12, Titus 1:6). Other places in the Bible indicate that men are to have only one wife, and women are to have only one husband (1 Corinthians 7:2, 1 Timothy 5:9). God made only one woman for Adam to be his other half, and only one man to be Eve's other half, and the two of them together were viewed as a complete whole (Genesis 2:18-24). This concept is reinforced in that it takes only one man and one woman to produce children; extra mates are unnecessary. Note, also, that whenever Christ spoke of marriage, he always spoke of it in monogamous terms, never polygamous: Matthew 5:31-32, 18:25, 19:5, 9, 29, Luke 14:26.The only times polygamy occurred in the Bible was when men chose to take the extra wives (Genesis 4:19, Genesis 29:18-29, 1 Samuel 1:2, 2 Chronicles 24:3); it was never due to God ordaining this style of marriage."

 

More here:

http://www.commontruth.com/Polygamy.html

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I knew you were going to go with that damn real meaning of chenq crap.  It means

Word Origin qyx from an unused root, apparently meaning to inclose

 

So David inclosed the women.  What is the difference?

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"Scripture clearly states that men holding positions of leadership in the Christian congregation were to have only one wife (Deuteronomy 17:17, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12, Titus 1:6). Other places in the Bible indicate that men are to have only one wife, and women are to have only one husband (1 Corinthians 7:2, 1 Timothy 5:9). God made only one woman for Adam to be his other half, and only one man to be Eve's other half, and the two of them together were viewed as a complete whole (Genesis 2:18-24). This concept is reinforced in that it takes only one man and one woman to produce children; extra mates are unnecessary. Note, also, that whenever Christ spoke of marriage, he always spoke of it in monogamous terms, never polygamous: Matthew 5:31-32, 18:25, 19:5, 9, 29, Luke 14:26.The only times polygamy occurred in the Bible was when men chose to take the extra wives (Genesis 4:19, Genesis 29:18-29, 1 Samuel 1:2, 2 Chronicles 24:3); it was never due to God ordaining this style of marriage."

 

More here:

http://www.commontruth.com/Polygamy.html

 

Typical Apologist Bullcrap (from the link):

 

"Putting it another way, this word signifies that the women were put into David's care, but without any sexual or marital connotation. This is why other some Bible versions use the alternative renderings of “keeping” (NKJV), and “care” (NASB).
 
This "master" whose wives were given into David's bosom was King Saul. We know this because God Himself chose King Saul to be Israel's first king (1 Samuel 9:15-17). And, during Saul's reign, David was a prominent servant in Saul's palace (1 Samuel 16:21), making it so that Saul was David's master. Because Saul constantly went against God's direct orders (1 Samuel 13:1-13, 1 Samuel 15:1-27), God chose to take Saul's family out of the royal line and replace it with David and his descendants instead (1 Samuel 16:1-13).
 
In other words, Saul was David's master, God took everything away from Saul's line and gave it all into David's keeping as the next king."
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I knew you were going to go with that damn real meaning of chenq crap.  It means

Word Origin qyx from an unused root, apparently meaning to inclose

 

So David inclosed the women.  What is the difference?

 

from the link:

 

Putting it another way, this word signifies that the women were put into David's care, but without any sexual or marital connotation. This is why other some Bible versions use the alternative renderings of “keeping” (NKJV), and “care” (NASB).

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Ironhorse, 

 

There is no evidence in the bible that your YHVH thought of women as anything more than a commodity.  Please refresh yourself with a bit of history.  Society at that time was based on patriarchy.  Wives were transactional.

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Since my views seem crap to you.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree on this topic.

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Since my views seem crap to you.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree on this topic.

 

Yes.  Please give it some thought.  

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I knew you were going to go with that damn real meaning of chenq crap.  It means

Word Origin qyx from an unused root, apparently meaning to inclose

 

So David inclosed the women.  What is the difference?

 

from the link:

 

Putting it another way, this word signifies that the women were put into David's care, but without any sexual or marital connotation. This is why other some Bible versions use the alternative renderings of “keeping” (NKJV), and “care” (NASB).

 

 

Please consider also, that the translations of the bible that are without this connotation are the New translations wink.png.

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse


 


 


Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

 

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

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Since my views seem crap to you.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree on this topic.

Before you similarly chicken out of my question too, I'll repeat it (just in case you didn't see it):

 

Do you think the bible condones misogyny?

 

Or, do you condone misogyny?

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This is so damn funny I can barely type.

 

IH will say "that verse doesn't DIRECTLY say that!" in this thread.

 

But in his other thread, he will shuck and jive faster than a christian attempting to deflect his god's command to enslave non-hebrews for life.

When presented by contradicting verses, he will perform apologetic acrobatics to twist words and phrases.

When he demands evidence, he will say "show me how god DIRECTLY condoned this!"

 

I need more popcorn.

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

 

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

 

 

Well, Ironhorse,

 

I thought we agreed to disagree.  You are asking the question again, as if you are saying to me, "move on... next victim please."  

 

Do I have to remind you that it's the arguments that stand on their own?  You still haven't defined the meaning of God giving a wife.  And, I don't understand how you can be ok with all this giving people like chattels to the 'master' crap. 

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This is so damn funny I can barely type.

 

IH will say "that verse doesn't DIRECTLY say that!" in this thread.

 

But in his other thread, he will shuck and jive faster than a christian attempting to deflect his god's command to enslave non-hebrews for life.

When presented by contradicting verses, he will perform apologetic acrobatics to twist words and phrases.

When he demands evidence, he will say "show me how god DIRECTLY condoned this!"

 

I need more popcorn.

 

Yes, I am having a damn good time here.  My verses even say, "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel...", but that is not to be taken literally. GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif .

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This is so damn funny I can barely type.

 

IH will say "that verse doesn't DIRECTLY say that!" in this thread.

 

But in his other thread, he will shuck and jive faster than a christian attempting to deflect his god's command to enslave non-hebrews for life.

When presented by contradicting verses, he will perform apologetic acrobatics to twist words and phrases.

When he demands evidence, he will say "show me how god DIRECTLY condoned this!"

 

I need more popcorn.

And I looked at xtify's creation and said it is good

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The word that we translate as "homosexual" in the bible may have been closer to "homosexual prostitute" back in the original writings. The idea that a word means the same thing with the same connotations today as it did back in the Bronze Age is stupid.

 

 

Late to the party as usual. Anyway.

 

In Roman culture, there were practices that were considered unclean by hardline Jews. Pederasty was one of them. Pederasty was essentially boy-love and would likely be considered pedophilia in most contexts in modern society. In Roman times, the practice was a sign of social status, as powerful men either kept slave boys or sought random encounters with male prostitutes to satisfy these urges. Boy-love partners could also gain the favor of powerful men who may help them into careers or positions of power down the road. These sorts of relationships were mostly condoned in society and it wasn't until later times when Christianity had begun to spread that the practices affiliated with pederasty were spoken against and outlawed.

 

In truth, the practices only went underground and spread to the church. It still exists among modern priests.

 

However, the OT speaks against homosexuality, so this was obviously something that ancients were aware of before the rise of the Greeks and Romans. I believe that the reason they were spoken against was not because they were unknown, but because they were somewhat common. Perhaps young people back then were having anal, performing oral and otherwise finding ways to work around the virginity preservation efforts of the females. The quickest way around would be to simply avoid banging women altogether. Just get it on with your fellow goatherders when no one else was around. Maybe throw in a sheep or two while you're at it, hence the talk of beastality.

 

*sarcasm!!!!!* It is "unnatural" to have sex with members of the same sex. That is obvious, according to many Christians. Penises are made for vaginas! Women are designed to birth children! It ain't rocket science. *sarcasm!!!!!*

 

Personally, I find it to be more unnatural to spend your entire life with only one partner, only having sex for procreative purposes, with even masturbation considered a crime. As a woman, I was labeled damaged goods because I had had previous partners and was open about my proclivity for and attraction to other women. Pa-sha! At least I am not trapped in a loveless marriage with an assclown who boo-hoos because he can't stop looking at porn like some of the ladies at my old church.

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

 

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

 

so when it does not fit your view it's not the teaching of scripture?

interesting

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"Yes. It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives. That is what the text says. I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it. Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations. bill

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

so when it does not fit your view it's not the teaching of scripture?

interesting

Iron horse, we are supposed to be like children to god. If it is not expressely forbidden, then it is acceptable. Since it was common practice back then and was not forbidden, then it was obviously acceptable.

 

It is just further proof that the bible was written by men of that era and why it doesnt measure up to modern morality.

 

Here's a fun one. Where does the bible forbid pedophelia? Hint:it doesnt. If there is a marriage, it is legit. No creative interpretations of "flee sexual immorality" I would love to see a passage that says "thou shalt not have sex with someone younger than 16. En fact Mary was probably around 12-14 when she was molested by the holy spirit.

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

 

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

 

Well, David took wives and concubines:

 

2 Sam 5:13

And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.

 

David was a man after God's own heart, doing right except for one case:

 

1 Kings 15:5

Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

 

If David did what was right except for the Uriah incident, then polygamy is fully supported.

 

Moses had two wives and he was considered dear to God.

 

Prophecy strongly hints that polygamy would be part of the restoration of Israel.

 

Isa 4:1

And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

 

It certainly appears that God condones polygamy.

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"Yes.  It says that the God of Israel gave David his master's wives.  That is what the text says.  I am by no means stretching it to mean anything other than the plain reading of it.  Now, you tell me how I am doing it wrong." ironhorse

 

 

Well, ironhorse, that's certainly a first for you. Congratulations.  bill

 

 

 

Again...what scripture directly says God condones polygamy?

 

If you read the link posted...yes, God allowed it at times...but that is not the teaching of scripture.

 

Well, David took wives and concubines:

 

2 Sam 5:13

And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.

 

David was a man after God's own heart, doing right except for one case:

 

1 Kings 15:5

Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

 

If David did what was right except for the Uriah incident, then polygamy is fully supported.

 

Moses had two wives and he was considered dear to God.

 

Prophecy strongly hints that polygamy would be part of the restoration of Israel.

 

Isa 4:1

And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

 

It certainly appears that God condones polygamy.

 

That particular context does suggest this being the aftermath of "Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she beingdesolate shall sit upon the ground."

 

The obvious understanding is that there will be so few men left, that women will offer themselves for marriage even without the promise of food and clothing in return. This describes terrible times, after which hints at a restoration of Israel will start being seen. Do read the thing in context.

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Yes, homosexuality is a "sin" according to the bible, but polygamy was ok.

Gee, ya think a bunch of dudes compiled the Bible or what? (only men can marry more than one woman at one time)

 

tongue.png

 

 

There is not a scripture that condones polygamy. 

 

 

 

Seriously, junior? SERIOUSLY?! lmao_99.gif

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Guest afireinside

 

 

 

 

Yes, homosexuality is a "sin" according to the bible, but polygamy was ok.

Gee, ya think a bunch of dudes compiled the Bible or what? (only men can marry more than one woman at one time)

 

tongue.png

 

There is not a scripture that condones polygamy.

 

Seriously, junior? SERIOUSLY?! lmao_99.gif

Must be a slimline Bible with all THOSE pages missing

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