Relationship Doubts

[DarkHorse]

I've been in a relationship with an amazing woman for almost 3 years now, and she's a born-again Christian, just like I was. Last year when I started falling further and further away from Christianity, I started telling her my doubts and problems with God. She got really upset and she cried a lot, and we fought often about it. She doesn't believe in being "unequally yoked", but said she still loved me. She just wasn't sure whether we could be together, and I was causing her a lot of anguish. So eventually I told her I would get over it, and try again. Since then I've been pretending that everything is okay, and that I still believe. I'm just going with the flow now. We've never really gone to church much, due to the issue Christianity has with same sex relationships. But now there's a church that supports us, and she wants to start going regularly and even go to the cell groups and hang out with the people there more. She believes in fellowship with other Christians. She also wants us to pray together every day, and pray through everything. It's becoming worse. She listens to praise and worship music for hours, while I do other things. But I hear it. And she gets upset because I don't want to join in. She says she wants someone who can support her spiritually, and I'm meant to be that person for her. But I don't think I can.

 

She still has big issues with being gay. She goes through days of depression and questioning whether we should be together. I hate those times. I feel like shouting at her that it's all a lie and it's okay. I hate watching her torturing herself because of this religion. And in this process, I get hurt too... Feeling that I'm not enough for her.

 

Every now and then I throw things her way to refute the authenticity of the Bible, and some other little things that I hope makes her think that what she believes might not be right. But she only gets upset at those times, and defends Christianity, God and the bible. Then she pulls away from me a little bit, but at least not for too long. But it's still very uncomfortable. I keep telling myself that maybe she'll change, and something will get through to her. But what if it doesn't?

 

I love her more than words can say. Our relationship is perfect for the most part. Sometimes I feel the best thing for both of us would be to walk away, but then she smiles or does something and I think there's no way I can leave. Besides, I never want to hurt her, and I certainly don't want to break her heart. She's a very fragile person, and she's already said she doesn't know whether she can live without me. I know a human is always stronger than we think, but she doesn't really know or believe that. I can't bear the thought of her being broken, and not being able to do anything about it.

 

Do I keep pretending in order to keep the peace and make my love happy, and stay together? Or is the best thing for us both to walk away? There are other issues we have that makes us both sometimes wonder whether staying together is healthy for the both of us, so religion isn't the only thing making me feel this way. Is love enough? I always thought it would be. But then why am I having doubts?

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I have never been in your situation so all I can do is acknowledge your dilemma and the distress its causing and wish you well.

 

One thing I have experienced in common with you is relationship difficulties in general (a few times) and something that helped was having relationship therapy/counselling.  Choice of therapist is all-important and it would be a good idea to steer clear of xian therapists.  A secular one might be best for both of you, especially since you are in a same sex relationship.

 

Hugs.

[Ousian]

Ultimately it's your decision, firstly.  Secondly, a religious difference should be a much bigger issue for her than it is for you, being "unequally yoked" is (arguably) a sin after all.  If you do stay with her, she and the church will likely try to convert you back, especially if they love you.

 

On the bright side, there's always the chance you can deconvert her.  Maybe explain your position for her and why you changed your beliefs.  Show her the myriad of evidence against religion: point out inconsistencies in the Bible, the inexplicable subjectivity in the church, the many instances of misogyny and prejudice, classic arguments like the problem of evil, etc.  

 

If you're OK with being very ideologically opposed, and you love her, I'd personally stay.  

[MerryG]

DarkHorse -- I'm very sorry that you're suffering so much for your love. At the same time I find it terribily ironic that a woman is using christianity as a means to hang onto you in a gay relationship. I know the bible had less to say about women's relationships than men's, but still.

 

Your love for her seems genuine, heartfelt, and sincere. But may I caution you that even just from the short bit you wrote, hers may not be the same. The phrase "can't live without you" isn't an expression of love, or even of legitimate need. It's a phrase of manipulation. Or if not of open, conscious manipulation, it's a phrase that says her attachment to you is dangerously needy -- not emotionally healthy.

 

And yes, some people are genuinely emotionally fragile and we don't want to hurt them. On the other hand, a lot of people use their supposed fragility to manipulate others through love and guilt.

 

I don't know enough to say that your partner is doing either of these things. But I do see danger signs all over your post. Sure, emotional turmoil can be a part of even the most healthy relationships when they're going through hard times. And certainly hiding one's view of religion is something too many people here have had to do.

 

But if you're constantly feeling a need to accommodate a partner, any partner, at the expense of your own happiness, honesty, and well-being, then please consider that there are lots of people in the world who try to hold on to others by always leaving others full of guilt and self-doubt. Many of these manipulators can also be charming when they need to be. Again, I don't know that your partner is one of these people, but I do see some telltale signs in what you wrote about her.

 

I'm sorry for your anguish. But please take care of yourself and beware.

[TrueFreedom]

This is so sad.  It sounds like it might be time to be honest with her and go from there.

[midniterider]

 

Sometimes I feel the best thing for both of us would be to walk away, but then she smiles or does something and I think there's no way I can leave. Besides, I never want to hurt her, and I certainly don't want to break her heart. She's a very fragile person, and she's already said she doesn't know whether she can live without me.

 

Sounds co-dependent. I don't think I'd want to deal with that (again). I put up with a clingy wife for 8 years longer than I should have.

 

Do I keep pretending in order to keep the peace and make my love happy, and stay together? Or is the best thing for us both to walk away? There are other issues we have that makes us both sometimes wonder whether staying together is healthy for the both of us, so religion isn't the only thing making me feel this way. Is love enough? I always thought it would be. But then why am I having doubts?

 

Is pretending to be a Christian making you happy or unhappy? How many years would you like to pretend to be a Christian?

 

If you have several issues that make you question whether or not you should stay together, how important are these issues? Will they keep coming up? What percentage of the time you are together involves disagreement or arguing? Or you silently disagreeing?

[Guest afireinside]

I would just treat your relationship as if your partner were suffering any mental issues(Christianity being a mental issue causing fear and guilt). Love her, be patient and tolerant and hope like hell she arrives at the same conclusion you did and comes to her right mind. Maybe religion should be taboo in your relationship and focus on all the good and let human reasoning be her guide. The main thing I think is you don't have third parties telling her she has to choose God or you, these people are sadistic, if you are happy then it's not up to them to undermine your happiness with their guilt trips.

[mymistake]

It just sucks how Christianity will oppress you for your gender and hate you for your orientation.  Sure you can find a liberal Church but then the other Christians will whisper about you behind your backs as they find out.  I use to be just like that and I'm glad I left that hateful mindf**k behind.  Without the religion I quickly discovered that I don't have a beef against gays anymore.  It is sick how Christianity teaches hate.

 

I'm sorry to hear that your partner isn't ready to wake up.  It looks like my wife will never leave Christianity.  I hid my lack of faith for years but eventually she figured it out.  Now I emphasize the good in our relationship.  She was shocked and scared (and a bit hostile) when she first found out.  But I keep reminding here that I don't mind that she is Christian and that I am not going to deconvert her.  Based on what you wrote it sounds like you won't be able to keep this up much longer.  Emphasize the good.  Tell her the good stuff you mentioned.

 

Best of luck

[DarkHorse]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.

 

FreeThinker, I hear what you're saying about seeing a therapist. I've been wanting to go see one for many years now, but it's not financially possible at this moment. The medical we have in this country, only covers 2 sessions, which I've done before, but couldn't continue after that. Those 2 sessions didn't do much, as you can imagine, there just wasn't enough time. I've tried finding where I can get free or much cheaper sessions, but that has been a dead end. For now.

 

Midniterider, pretending is terrible. I hate it. I don't feel it's fair on either one of us for me to be lying to her. Everyone deserves honesty. But to tell her, as I've already tried, is just not worth it either, I think.

 

MerryG, I have noticed signs of manipulation in my relationship, I haven't been totally oblivious to it. Just as I know the signs of emotional abuse. But that doesn't mean it's easy for me to let go. I can't voice my concerns, feelings or fears most of the time, as I'm always afraid she's going to snap. Our bad moments are really bad, and our good moments really good. But during the good moments, I'm still always wondering how long they will last. I'm always afraid of saying or doing something wrong.

I feel she has a lot of issues in her life, things she needs to deal with, and I also have, obviously. I guess we're both a little broken, and have maybe subconsciously relied on one another to fill that little void left open by other things and events in our lives. I see the unhealthy aspect of it, and I guess that's what's been weighing me down a lot. When I look at it as someone from the outside, I see the answer. To walk away. Maybe one day when we're both healed, things could be different.But it's still not easy to just give up. For one, I'm terrified. For a lot of different reasons. And the thing keeping me here the most though, is like I said, my not wanting to hurt her, and I really DO love her with all my heart.

 

I'll just have to take it one step at a time, and hope I do the right thing at the right time.

[DarkHorse]

When I first posted this thread, I felt a little silly the next day letting all my "secrets" loose here for so many people to read. I'm not used to being so open, especially in a public place, so for those of you that replied, thanks for not judging.

[Storm]

Change happens when the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of changing. If you can live with the problems that she presents in your life, then try to make it work to the best of your ability. If things are to the point where you just cant handle it anymore, then maybe you need to make that change. Either way, there will be pain. Which type is up to you. I am in a similar situation with my wife. I play the game of christianity to keep things ok between me and my wife and it frustrates me sometimes, but my love for her overcomes the issues we have. There may come a time (I sure hope not) where I don't feel that way, but at this point, I am content to play the game. Its a sacrifice I make to have her in my life. To me its worth it. You have to figure out if its worth it to you. Best of luck to you.

[Ellinas]

There's a difference between playing the game because you think it is worth it to save your loved one pain and being forced to play it because the loved one knows she can influence you.

 

I see the merit in the first, and do it - my wife, I think, chooses not to ask too many questions, and I do not force her to do so.

 

I would be less sympathetic if she were to try to force me to her ideas just because she thought she could.

 

Where you are on the scale between those two situations is for you to decide - but beware taking any action unless you are satisfied you can live with the consequences whatever they might be.

 

At the end of the day - the question you need to ask is as to what you need to do, one way or the other, to be able to live with yourself...

[florduh]

It seems as though you may feel sorry for her as much as you feel love for her. Do you see yourself as her salvation? Do you feel that while you could survive a breakup, she may not? Are you the strong one? Do you feel you must make sacrifices if the relationship is to continue?

 

Just some questions you should probably ask yourself. All the best to both of you.

[milesaway]

Only you know whether or not this relationship is worth salvaging. You've invested 3 years of your life in it, it's peanuts in the scheme of things, but are you willing to spend any more time bending over backwards and pretending just to keep the peace for her? Does she do the same for you? It doesn't sound like it, but maybe I'm wrong there. You're worried about hurting her, but she doesn't seem to be worried about hurting you by letting you feel like you're not enough.

 

You're not happy. She's not happy either, and it sounds like she could benefit from some therapy if she's got issues with her orientation. You can't fix her. It's up to her to sort herself out at the end of the day. Maybe you could try therapy together, if you feel like you could use some yourself. If you feel like this relationship really has potential, then it's worth the effort. I saw you've tried therapy before. Is there a place in your area that can do a sliding fee scale? Could you try online therapy via webcam with a reputable therapist that offers it for a decent price? Just throwing ideas out there.

 

I hate that religion causes so much drama in relationships when there doesn't have to be. I tried relationships with xtians and surprise, none of them lasted. As toxic as xtianity is towards those in the LGBT community (even the most liberal churches, they're cut from the same cloth), this is something you can't take away from her unless she's ready to evaluate her beliefs and ask herself honestly if they're working for her. You can't make her a nonbeliever, that's something she needs to decide for herself if that's an avenue she wants to take. She has a need to believe, it's got nothing to do with intellect or reason.

[RipVanWinkle]

""Maybe religion should be taboo in your relationship and focus on all the good and let human reasoning be her guide. The main thing I think is you don't have third parties telling her she has to choose God or you, these people are sadistic, if you are happy then it's not up to them to undermine your happiness with their guilt trips. " afireinside

 

My wife is a Xtian, so I can identify with you. This "unequally yoked" situation is in my opinion a problem that is not suitable for a boilerplate answer. I think each couple must decide which of a number of possible solutions is the right one. It depends so much on the nature of the relationship and the personalities of the people involved. All of the above answers are good ones, but not necessarily the right ones for you.

 

Ask yourself which do you value the most: your relationship with your partner or your freedom from the pressure involved in the relationship? You must answer that question before you can take appropriate action. If you choose  to stick with your partner, I think you should discuss the ground rules for your continued relationship. For example, you may want to insist that religion be a private matter for each of you and it will not be discussed. Other things could be added such as where religious music or sermons will be listened to and whether she will pray out loud at the dinner table. I'm not suggesting these things necessarily should be in the agreement, except the required silence between you two on the topic of religion. 

 

On the other hand if she can't accept your non-belief you need to know it. Force her to make the choice. The issue should be resolved one way or the other as soon as possible. She is the one on whose shoulders this problem lies because it is she who objects to your non-belief, not the reverse.  Good luck.  bill

[Deidre]

Since it's not only about religion, maybe you both do need to take a break. You don't need to sever the tie permanently. Maybe take a break, and see where you both end up in a month's span of time?

 

I ended a relationship not long ago with someone whom I cared for but he wasn't a healthy influence in my life. This might sound bad, and maybe it's because I was hurt recently, but I don't believe in putting that much effort into a 'relationship.' It either rolls along or it doesn't. I'm not saying there won't ever be conflict, etc. But, at this point, I want to click with someone, no fights, no conflicts, just FUN. The minute it becomes 'work,' I'm out.

 

I go to a job 40+ hours per week. I'm not ''working'' at a relationship. No thanks. lol

 

Aren't you glad I chimed in?

 

In all seriousness, if she is fragile, that isn't your fault. And if she manipulates you with that, then you really need to move on. Truth is, if she has a problem with being gay and is religious ...these are fundamental differences that I can't see ''getting better'' over time. Little problems, people can live with, but these issues to me, are too big to just ignore and pass the mashed potatoes.

 

Don't settle, Dark Horse. Life's too short. I'm not suggesting become selfish, but ...when as a Christian, we make a lot of excuses for bad behaviors, for people treating us less than we should be treated, because the 'Christian way' teaches a person to forgive when really, we should walk away. I think religion is a detriment to creating healthy boundaries.

[ApostateAwoken]

Dear DarkHorse,

 

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I'm quite young so I don't know much about real relationships, but I'll offer my two cents on the predicament anyways because I do know somewhat about failed relationships thanks to my parents. 

 

You can't really change a person; you can influence them to change but in the end it's them who decides whether or not they're going to change. In other words, you can't make an ex-Christian out of her unless she decides that she wants to consider anything outside of her "bubble". So unless she shows willingness to consider other non-Christian points of view, it's unlikely you're going to convince her very much. 

 

Relationships also have a lot to do with commitment... both people have to want to make it work. Unfortunately, if she's a Christian, she's always going to prize Jesus above you. What was that stupid thing Jesus said in one of the gospels - something about giving up even your family for "his sake". The mind disease encourages people to give up everything for the faith, so if she's truly devoted, she'd rather give you up than Jesus. Which sucks, because the guy's been dead for 2,000 years and frankly can't give a shit about us. 

 

It sounds like you two have a very loving relationship, but both of you aren't getting what you need. Although you care, she has expressly stated a desire for someone who will meet her spiritual needs. You're not a Christian, anymore, though; you simply can't do that. And furthermore, her need for spirituality is weighing down on you -- you can't take all the religious stuff (and I don't blame you). 

 

You can't keep pretending forever, and besides, it's not reasonable for you to bend over backwards just to make this relationship work. Relationships are about give-and-take, so you can't be pulling all the crap just to make it work. It's either both of you, or neither. Love is absolutely essential to a real relationship, but it's usually not the only glue that can cement people together. She's also expressed where her devotion lies - to an imaginary man in the sky, above you. 

 

I'm sure you're getting a negative vibe from this, and my heart breaks for both of you. Rather than just break up with her, though, I'd express all these concerns to her. Tell her you love her with all your heart, but you can't continue to live like this. See if you two can possibly reach some sort of agreement, like you respect her Christianity and she respects your atheism or something... If you can work out some sort of agreement and both of you genuinely want this relationship to work more than anything, it may still have a chance of being saved. But you need to bring all your issues to the table right now or it is going to fail. All this stress is not good for either of you. 

 

As for the heartbreak -- let her know you love her, and if things turn sour, that you're not "dumping" her, you're just doing what's best for both of you. She will move on eventually if that's the case; it's hard, but everyone does at some point or another. To be honest, I don't see this relationship lasting, but you should definitely make the effort and give it your all before giving up. 

 

Tons of love for the both of you and best wishes,

AA

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I was in a relationship where the emotional issues remind me so much of what you describe about your relationship.  Religion wasn't an issue at all.  I fought the idea of leaving for a long, long time.  I tried everything I could to make it work, knowing that if I did leave, at least I could be satisfied that I had tried my best. 

 

I knew my decision would cause a lot of hurt and grief to the other person but I had to value myself and put myself first in my world.  I had been sacrificing myself out of fear of hurting them. 

 

When I did leave, I regretted staying so long.  Actually I still regret that.  But I am glad I got out when I did.  The other person survived and I am rebuilding my life.  I will never again let myself get into a relationship like that.

[DarkHorse]

In all seriousness, if she is fragile, that isn't your fault. And if she manipulates you with that, then you really need to move on. Truth is, if she has a problem with being gay and is religious ...these are fundamental differences that I can't see ''getting better'' over time. Little problems, people can live with, but these issues to me, are too big to just ignore and pass the mashed potatoes.

 

Don't settle, Dark Horse. Life's too short. I'm not suggesting become selfish, but ...when as a Christian, we make a lot of excuses for bad behaviors, for people treating us less than we should be treated, because the 'Christian way' teaches a person to forgive when really, we should walk away. I think religion is a detriment to creating healthy boundaries.

 

I agree with this. I've been doing a lot of thinking, and I've been realizing this more and more. I can stick around and wait for her to change, but that's not how a relationship should be, and besides, what if nothing changes? Both partners should bring out the best in one another and ACCEPT one another completely. I'm going to have a talk with her once I have everything I want to say firmly in my mind, and go from there.

 

Thanks guys and girls.

[DrNo]

You're in a really tough spot because your feelings are so strong, but you see the warning signs. Ask yourself, if you have to lie to preserve the relationship, can you really call what the two of you have "love?" Would you expect her to lie about her belief system to you if you did not like something about it? Will it hurt her more for you to volunteer the truth now or for her to find out some other way later on?

[DarkHorse]

You're in a really tough spot because your feelings are so strong, but you see the warning signs. Ask yourself, if you have to lie to preserve the relationship, can you really call what the two of you have "love?" Would you expect her to lie about her belief system to you if you did not like something about it? Will it hurt her more for you to volunteer the truth now or for her to find out some other way later on?

You're right. I detest lying, and never thought I'd be the one doing it. It's not fair on her, and it's not fair on me. I'm working on telling her the truth..It's feeling less and less scary thinking of doing it, and I know that soon I'll be ready. I'm making peace with the fact that whatever happens, will be for the best.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi DarkHorse, i think people have given you very good perspectives. I can't improve on them. It just occurs to me to note from my own experience that it can seem that "the right time" just never comes up! You may just have to go with your gut and "take a step of faith," as we used to say back in the day.

 

Hugs, Ficino

[DarkHorse]

I'll keep that in mind ficino.