Problem In Deconversion Process

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I started a thread called "I Keep Irrationally Thanking "god" http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/61890-i-keep-irrationally-thanking-god/#.U0yYlaJw8-0 and while I appreciate the replies I think the thread title and first post have been giving the wrong impression about the problem I'm having.  (I have Asperger syndrome and sometimes people can misunderstand what I say).  So I'm starting this thread to have another try.

 

I am only 6 weeks post deconversion and I have a distressing habit that I can only hope will go away soon.  I am very proud of my new identification as an athiest, I finally saw the light, after 45 years of indoctrination.  I have depression and I believe that it has started to go away because I deconverted.  Naturally I am very scared of the depression coming back to what it was like before deconversion.  It was a dark place and I was suicidal.  Deconverting literally saved my life.

 

The problem I am having is that I unwillingly slip into something like prayer in my mind several times a day, whenever I feel lucky or positive about something in my life.  I enjoy feeling grateful, for me it's one of the few times when I can make myself think positive thoughts.  Negative thoughts are always there in the background, ready to tug at me, so I try to think positive thoughts and remembering what I am grateful for helps me do that.  When I was a xian, I was indoctrinated into feeling grateful to god for everything - if it was something beyond my control, god did it, if I was something I did, god made me do it, I  got no credit.  Thus, I had low self esteem.

 

Since deconversion I accept the good things in my life that happen because of me.  I am rebuilding my self esteem.  But when I think of good things that I did not cause, I have nowhere to go with feeling grateful for them, so I unconsciously feel grateful to god, who I don't believe exists.  This then makes me feel like a failure at being an athiest.  I hate that for that moment, I forgot that I'm now an unbeliever.  I feel like the delusional indoctrination has still got a hold on me and I feel distressed for feeling that.  I also think xianity is the underlying cause of my depression, because it is very easy for me to feel guilty and like a failure.  Its ironic that I now (at times) feel like a failure at the deconversion process itself.

 

I can't believe in "the universe" either so it's not a case of simply replacing god with another entity or force to be grateful to.  I can't be grateful to luck or chance, that doesn't make any sense to me.  If I "believe" in anything it is in logic and rational thinking and science and evidence.  It's hard to trust myself to be rational, because for 45 years I held an irrational belief.  Sure, I'm now rational about a god concept but who's to say I am completely rational about everything else.

 

And yes, I am on medication, I have a psychiatrist and I am on a waiting list to see a psychologist but I doubt they will be able to help with this problem. Hence why I am asking deconversion experts.

 

I suspect that these feelings are a normal part of the process but having fought a tough, tough battle with depression, to the point of making plans to end it all, I freak out about things to an extent that others wouldn't.  I would like to hear from people who are a few years post deconversion who have felt this way or who can empathise.  I'm hoping the episodes of distress decrease over time.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

 

 

[par4dcourse]

You're allowed to be happy and contented without "aiming" those feelings toward anyone or anything. Prayer is just you talking to you and sorting things out. Don't worry about it. There's not a script for deconversion; go at your own pace and enjoy the ride.

[TrueFreedom]

((FreeThinkerNZ))  Be happy!  We're glad that you are here.

[Deidre]

Freethinker, if it makes you feel a bit more comforted, I too *still* have moments when I hear someone I know is ill for example, and I almost slip out...Oh, I'll pray for you. It is a process, a long and winding process. Perhaps, with no final end in sight. You know who you are and what logically makes sense to you now, and that is what matters most. Try not to focus on the momentary lapses that you have, but rather in the positive direction you're heading with your newfound freedom away from religion!

[Annier]

I understand.  

 

I had a similar thing, the picture of jesus would pop into my head every time I felt grateful for something.

 

I started to change it by thanking, in my mind, the people who had brought these things to me.

 

When I thanked the shop assistant, I would really feel it, and show it with a smile and kind words.   Then as I handled my purchases I would think of the transport drivers, the warehouse workers, the manufacturers, the farmers for food, etc. and be thankful to them (in a kind of prayer⁾  for the work they did so I that I could have the product.

 

If a car stopped to let me cross the road, I would make sure I smile and wave 'thank you' and let my gratitude be felt, and think how kind the driver was.

 

Anything that someone did for me, whether it was their job or not, I would grab that feeling of gratitude towards them and really feel it, so that when I thanked them, they would know it was genuine.

 

Sometimes I thank the earth, and the worms and other life underground for providing the means to plant life, which in turn helps us live.

 

And when I was able to do something for myself, an achievement, I allowed myself to feel proud, and capable.

 

 

 

 

And now it has become automatic, and I know there is no supernatural entity out there responsible for what I have. 

 

The world around us, and the actions of others, all work together to provide what we have.

 

By placing the focus of my gratitude, my thanks, on things other than the god entity, I was able to make the transition gradually, and it became easier the more I did it.

 

It does help with depression too.   Putting a smile on your face you do feel a little better at times. 

 

Don't be too hard on yourself, you are still a baby exchristian.   It does take time to get rid of the old.  And it is easier if you replace it with something new

 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Thanks everyone, your words really help.

 

It's good to know prayers are just me talking to me and sorting things out. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

 

I am a baby exchristian... I don't have to "succeed" at this straight away. Thanks for that.

[AnonymousCoward]

 

 

This then makes me feel like a failure at being an athiest.

 

There's no atheist hell. I think some Christian guilt is hanging around. It doesn't matter if you slip out of habit and thank God for something or pray to him when times are tough. It doesn't mean you suddenly believe in him, are no longer an atheist, or are now subject to the laws of Christianity. Your (and my) natural mechanism built over years for dealing with any adversity is to pray. That natural tendency is not just going to suddenly go away, especially if it does make you feel better. I wouldn't stress over it.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

My wife is from Ukraine and her family is still over there.  I care very much about them, especially her mom and sister.  With everything that has been going on over there for the past several months, you wouldn't believe the number of times I have felt like praying for them.  I've even found myself wishing that there really was a god that I could pray to and that I could trust would hear my prayers and take care of them.

 

...And I've been an atheist for 10 years.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.  This, too, shall pass.

[Ellinas]

Your "thankfulness" is your expression of relief, satisfaction, gladness etc (depending on context).  Remember that every time you sense this.  Eventually, the sensation may moderate to one of simple relief, satisfaction or gladness without the religious overtones.  And don't worry about it.  You can't change ingrained habits overnight.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Thanks everyone, your comments have helped so much.

[RipVanWinkle]

"My wife is from Ukraine and her family is still over there.  I care very much about them, especially her mom and sister.  With everything that has been going on over there for the past several months, you wouldn't believe the number of times I have felt like praying for them.  I've even found myself wishing that there really was a god that I could pray to and that I could trust would hear my prayers and take care of them.

 

...And I've been an atheist for 10 years.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.  This, too, shall pass."  RNP

 

Look at the above post from RNP.  Unlike Xtianity we exchristans won't bullshit you. We don't pretend to have magic answers.

We don't say your problems are because you don't have enough faith in atheism or whatever. All we can do is tell what we think, right or wrong, and what our experience has been. My experience says this: Your still thinking .like a Xtian. You don't commit a sin or other wrongdoing when you pray to god. You are merely going through a process or reprogramming you brainwashed brain. Give yourself a break. Give yourself time. Get rid of the guilt.  When these urges to pray occur you can: (1) Pray and see what happens (2) Ask yourself how successful prayer been in your life. (3) Give prayer a test. Pray every day for a period of time, and keep a record of the results.The time period should be at least two weeks. (4)Recall in your mind each of the reasons you deconverted one by one. (5) Read at least one of the stories of genocide in the bible. Etc. 

 

 In other words have your rational self tell you scared self how to get back to reality.  Be your own god. You'll do a much better job than you know who.  Good luck.      bill

[ApostateAwoken]

I remember the first few weeks after I deconverted. They were terrible. 

 

The best advice I got, and I believe it was from florduh, was as follows: Relax.

 

Calm down. You don't know everything, you never will, so don't feel like you need to have everything figured out all of a sudden. Take life a day at a time and keep pressing onwards. Laugh, smile, and just simply enjoy life. Don't feel the need to thank anything. There's a difference between thanking something and being thankful. You're new to this game and you have a lot of work ahead of you. In the meantime, just be thankful that you're out of the mind-games, you've found home, and we'll be here for you every step of the way.

 

if it ever gets overwhelming, just break from the thoughts for a moment. Let them spill through your head, but don't pay them any mind. Do something you enjoy. Meditation helps calm me down. In time, you will heal. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Thank you so much, ApostateAwoken, I really appreciate your words.

[Deidre]

The good news about atheism, is that there are no pass or fail grades given, like when you were a Christian!

So, relax...and allow the path you're on to unfold. Each day will be different during these beginning stages. But, eventually, you will grow comfortable in your newfound freedom.

[ApostateAwoken]

Thank you so much, ApostateAwoken, I really appreciate your words.

 

You're very welcome; I'm so glad that you find them valuable. Anytime you need support, we'll be here for you.   

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Everyone, thanks again for your posts, they really help.

 

I realised something today.  I'm not automatically attributing good things to "god" as much as I was before.  And, I think one reason why I was doing that was, I wasn't used to owning my successes and accomplishments.  I was used to worshipping and being subservient to my imaginary friend, so even when something good happened because of my own actions, I habitually ascribed it to god instead of myself.  As for the good things that "just are", I am learning to accept them on their merits too.  This is progress!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Everyone, thanks again for your posts, they really help.

 

I realised something today.  I'm not automatically attributing good things to "god" as much as I was before.  And, I think one reason why I was doing that was, I wasn't used to owning my successes and accomplishments.  I was used to worshipping and being subservient to my imaginary friend, so even when something good happened because of my own actions, I habitually ascribed it to god instead of myself.  As for the good things that "just are", I am learning to accept them on their merits too.  This is progress!

Hey, congrats!  I'm glad to hear it.

[Neverlandrut]

I echo par4dacourse's response. I had a similar struggle. Prayer made me feel clear headed, greatful, at peace, etc. Then one day, as an atheist, I realized that prayer was just me talking to myself and sorting things out. There's nothing wrong with that. If you find yourself praying even though you don't believe in god, just recognize that it's a mental exercise that helps you sort through your thoughts and emotions. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[Margee]

FreeThinkerNZ, The new feeling of gratitude that I am experiencing after 3 years is called an 'attitude'. You my dear, can have a 'grateful' attitude that doesn't have to be directed at anyone or anything. Just a lovely, joyous feeling that comes from being grateful that some nice things are happening in your life!! You have a attitude of gratitude!!    Looks good on ya hon!! 

 

*hug*  

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.